Honda - another disaster ?

[rubystone]

Crafty_ said:

Honda are providing free engines and allegedly paying a third of McLaren's budget.

McLaren have signed a contract to supply gearboxes to Sauber for the Honda engine in 2018.

I very much doubt that they will split, even if they could afford it, which it seems they cannot.

Bahrain isn't exactly on its uppers though is it? Who's to say that part of the deal to exit Ron wasn't a pledge to pump more cash into the team?

[Crafty_]

rubystone said:

Bahrain isn't exactly on its uppers though is it? Who's to say that part of the deal to exit Ron wasn't a pledge to pump more cash into the team?

I think they are throwing enough at it right now and have been for some years.

[FourWheelDrift]

I thought the reason he was removed from his position as CEO was because he wanted to increase his stake in McLaren to be in overall control, using Chinese investment money and the other shareholders didn't want to sell.

http://news.sky.com/story/dennis-in-battle-over-16...

If hadn't done that he'd still be there.

[CraigyMc]

FourWheelDrift said:

I thought the reason he was removed from his position as CEO was because he wanted to increase his stake in McLaren to be in overall control, using Chinese investment money and the other shareholders didn't want to sell.

http://news.sky.com/story/dennis-in-battle-over-16...

If hadn't done that he'd still be there.

Really it's to do with Lisa and the Ojjehs.
If Ron wasn't divorced, he'd still be there.

[skwdenyer]

CraigyMc said:

FourWheelDrift said:

I thought the reason he was removed from his position as CEO was because he wanted to increase his stake in McLaren to be in overall control, using Chinese investment money and the other shareholders didn't want to sell.

http://news.sky.com/story/dennis-in-battle-over-16...

If hadn't done that he'd still be there.

Really it's to do with Lisa and the Ojjehs.
If Ron wasn't divorced, he'd still be there.

If true, very sad that people can be so petty when the livelihoods of thousands are impacted upon by the fall-out.

[rubystone]

CraigyMc said:

Really it's to do with Lisa and the Ojjehs.
If Ron wasn't divorced, he'd still be there.

With a sprinkling of his views on running a GP in Bahrain and a soupçon of his failing to close the investment deal within the agreed timescales. Apparently Lisa has invited the Ojjehs to their daughter's wedding too. Oh to be a fly on the wall there...

[anonymous-user]

Not convinced the personal/marital issues are causative of McLaren's woes. A strategic decision to dump Mercedes in the belief they or any other manufacturer can't be beaten by their own engine pretty much sealed that.

McLaren with a proven donkey and a good chassis would be competetive now. Sponsorship would be easier to come by than it is now. Time could have been taken to develop an engine choice, without the rush.

[rubystone]

janesmith1950 said:

Not convinced the personal/marital issues are causative of McLaren's woes. A strategic decision to dump Mercedes in the belief they or any other manufacturer can't be beaten by their own engine pretty much sealed that.

McLaren with a proven donkey and a good chassis would be competetive now. Sponsorship would be easier to come by than it is now. Time could have been taken to develop an engine choice, without the rush.

Dennis' exit is down to those reasons. The team's issues are down to Honda. There was a very short window in which to tie Honda down to a deal. And McLaren have had a good chassis since Prodromou joined.

[anonymous-user]

rubystone said:

Dennis' exit is down to those reasons. The team's issues are down to Honda. There was a very short window in which to tie Honda down to a deal. And McLaren have had a good chassis since Prodromou joined.

Agreed. Dennis may have gone due to personal issues. However McLaren aren't pants due to those. They're pants because Dennis carried forward a silly punt. Nothing to do with his fall out with the shareholders.

If only they could afford to reverse his nonsense with Honda who, except for a spell in the 80s/90s, have been nought but stocking fillers in F1. Honda's all time win ratio is poor. Dennis had rose tinteds on.

[NRS]

janesmith1950 said:

rubystone said:

Dennis' exit is down to those reasons. The team's issues are down to Honda. There was a very short window in which to tie Honda down to a deal. And McLaren have had a good chassis since Prodromou joined.

Agreed. Dennis may have gone due to personal issues. However McLaren aren't pants due to those. They're pants because Dennis carried forward a silly punt. Nothing to do with his fall out with the shareholders.

If only they could afford to reverse his nonsense with Honda who, except for a spell in the 80s/90s, have been nought but stocking fillers in F1. Honda's all time win ratio is poor. Dennis had rose tinteds on.

It's easy to say now. However you just need to look at the gap between Mercedes, Ferrari and the rest to see just how much having an integrated team for the engine and chassis (plus obviously lots of money to throw at problems) makes a difference. The best McLaren could likely hope for is 2nd in the championship, if not lower down. If you're happy to settle for that then it was worth staying with Mercedes. If you wanted to risk everything to try and win then the punt was with Honda. It has not worked, but Ron had a very good point in the likelihood of beating the team who provide you with an engine.

[Vaud]

janesmith1950 said:

Agreed. Dennis may have gone due to personal issues. However McLaren aren't pants due to those. They're pants because Dennis carried forward a silly punt. Nothing to do with his fall out with the shareholders.

If only they could afford to reverse his nonsense with Honda who, except for a spell in the 80s/90s, have been nought but stocking fillers in F1. Honda's all time win ratio is poor. Dennis had rose tinteds on.

Not sure it was a silly punt, and he wasn't the only decision maker, though he may have been the advocate.

Tough to turn down the levels of funding, corporate clout and experience Honda brought - on paper it may have been a very sound proposition.

[Trabi601]

Exact.y what NRS says.

You'll never beat a Mercedes or Ferrari factory team with a customer engine.

The only reason Red Bull are beating Renault is that the Renault factory team are (in their current incarnation) a new team.

[hairyben]

The mrs just pointed out to me mclaren are the only team with 0 points. Sauber next up have 6.

Thats a marker right there.

[glazbagun]

hairyben said:

The mrs just pointed out to me mclaren are the only team with 0 points. Sauber next up have 6.

Thats a marker right there.

It was also the first race of the season a McLaren actually finished. They'd have had two (finishers, not points!) but for Vandoorne getting spooked by Massa and breaking his car.

[Inertiatic]

Was an interesting race for Alonso. He screwed by the VSC as he hasn't long pitted. Everyone in front got a free pit stop and then he didn't have the pace to get through them, but seemed to be able to match them. Without the VSC I can imagine points were doable.

Car looked a lot quicker this weekend, and a double finish was doable had Vandoorne not gone a bit mad!

[swisstoni]

Growing up in the Senna / Prost years of absolute dominance I have never viewed McLaren as an underdog, and as a fairly cold, mean machine.
But I'd like nothing more than for this team to sort things out and stuff Mercedes and Ferrari, hopefully before this season is out.

[Gary C]

Inertiatic said:

Car looked a lot quicker this weekend, and a double finish was doable had Vandoorne not gone a bit mad!

Your right of course, but mclaren should not be in a position of potentially being congratulated for almost getting two cars to the finish.

i just hope they have a competitive car once (if) Honda get off their arses.

[The Moose]

swisstoni said:

Growing up in the Senna / Prost years of absolute dominance I have never viewed McLaren as an underdog, and as a fairly cold, mean machine.
But I'd like nothing more than for this team to sort things out and stuff Mercedes and Ferrari, hopefully before this season is out.

Has there ever been a team who after 25% of the season was on 0 points then went on to challenge the front runners?

[aeropilot]

swisstoni said:

But I'd like nothing more than for this team to sort things out and stuff Mercedes and Ferrari, hopefully before this season is out.

Dream on...........

[ralphrj]

The Moose said:

Has there ever been a team who after 25% of the season was on 0 points then went on to challenge the front runners?

I suspect in the very early days of the F1 World Championship, when the Indy 500 counted as one round, a team might have failed to score in the first couple of races but been contenders by the end of the season.

In more recent years, McLaren managed one of the most dramatic turnarounds in 2004 when the slow and unreliable MP4-19 was replaced with the MP4-19B. They had scored a handful of points though.