Honda - another disaster ?

[Dakkon]

rubystone said:

Dakkon said:

Wise words here, if they fail to get a title sponsor this year then there will be real question marks over their survival in the coming years, they are heading towards a critical point in their history.

Why do people think the team won't be able to survive? The rest of the McLaren group is profitable and their road car division trades heavily on the F1 link. This notion of a 'title sponsor' with deep pockets covering a large chunk of the operating budget has been dismissed by many in the business as being a thing of the past. In essence Honda is the title sponsor if one looks at which partner pays the most.

I'm sure that many people are impressed by Williams having Martini as a title sponsor? In reality that deal isn't worth anything like what it should be worth given the exposure Martini gets on the car. I can't recall the figures, but they are 'low'.

I predict that unlike RD, ZB will cut the rate card and sign someone as 'title sponsor' for 2018 just to take the heat out of this.

All I will say is that it is not as profitable as you think.

[RichB]

rubystone said:

RichB said:

I think you misjudge that. If you base you look at testing times then clearly Ferrari are very close to Mercedes this season. It's up to the other teams to improve so hats off to Mercedes for raising the bar and bravo Ferrari for responding.

McLaren/Honda's biggest issue is themselves not another competitor.

I think you might find that Mercedes aren't trying very hard. This time last year...long runs, lots of laps, Ferrari setting faster laps....sound familiar?

Fair enough but I don't think one can say McLaren's problems are down to Mercedes.

[lee_fr200]

Eric bouiiler saying this isn't the race engine so don't read too much into it they will fit the race engine next week for the 2nd test

I just pray this test has been aero work and the actual race engine will dominate
They've also said they're not splitting from Honda and are very happy

[Vocal Minority]

Did they say they have complete confidence in them?

[KevinCamaroSS]

lee_fr200 said:

Eric bouiiler saying this isn't the race engine so don't read too much into it they will fit the race engine next week for the 2nd test

I just pray this test has been aero work and the actual race engine will dominate
They've also said they're not splitting from Honda and are very happy

No matter how many times you say this it still means Jack. If anything that puts them into a worse place because they will have less time to sort issues on the 'race' engine. Far too late to be faffing around like this. I am a McLaren fan but unfortunately think they have no hope this year.

[steve-5snwi]

Why would you waste time on something that's not a race engine ? Surely under the new regulations you would want as much time as possible out on track.

[Frimley111R]

I suspect the engine IS the race engine but with a few minor differences.

[Frimley111R]

KevinCamaroSS said:

No matter how many times you say this it still means Jack. If anything that puts them into a worse place because they will have less time to sort issues on the 'race' engine. Far too late to be faffing around like this. I am a McLaren fan but unfortunately think they have no hope this year.

Indeed, they seem no further forward than they have ever been and in many ways they are further behind, being both slower and still unreliable. I hope it will all be worth it in the end but the end is a long long long way away.

[NRS]

steve-5snwi said:

Why would you waste time on something that's not a race engine ? Surely under the new regulations you would want as much time as possible out on track.

This one will have been detuned for reliability to be able to test the aero parts,

[steve-5snwi]

The only aero parts on that engine are the ones that leave the engine through the bodywork and have the desire to be in space

[DanielSan]

Dakkon said:

All I will say is that it is not as profitable as you think.

Weren't Mclaren dealers having to refuse to take stock at the start of last year/end of 2015? I'm sure Mclaren had made/ possibly even pre-registered cars thinking they would sell quicker than they actually were.

[HustleRussell]

One observer reckons the Honda PU has plenty of beans but the chassis is lacking overall grip.

[PhillipM]

HustleRussell said:

One observer reckons the Honda PU has plenty of beans but the chassis is lacking overall grip.

Not surprising, they've still got a basic floor and diffuser on, and they haven't exactly had time to do much setup work. Mind, they seem to have been doing a fair bit of aero testing today.

[telecat]

PhillipM said:

HustleRussell said:

One observer reckons the Honda PU has plenty of beans but the chassis is lacking overall grip.

Not surprising, they've still got a basic floor and diffuser on, and they haven't exactly had time to do much setup work. Mind, they seem to have been doing a fair bit of aero testing today.

If you are refering to Anderson he seems to complain about every McLaren Chassis/Aero. Even the ones that worked!!

[rubystone]

Dakkon said:

All I will say is that it is not as profitable as you think.

Aren't they a publicly quoted company?

[PhillipM]

telecat said:

If you are refering to Anderson he seems to complain about every McLaren Chassis/Aero. Even the ones that worked!!

He loved the one that didn't though!

[Dakkon]

rubystone said:

Dakkon said:

All I will say is that it is not as profitable as you think.

Aren't they a publicly quoted company?

They are but the Bahrain Sovereign Fund has pumped a lot of cash into McLaren to keep everything going, another reason they got rid of Ron was that they want return on their investment which was not happening with Ron at the helm, hence he was maneuvered out of the board.

[lee_fr200]

KevinCamaroSS said:

No matter how many times you say this it still means Jack. If anything that puts them into a worse place because they will have less time to sort issues on the 'race' engine. Far too late to be faffing around like this. I am a McLaren fan but unfortunately think they have no hope this year.

I know mclaren aren't going to do great but I can hope

[FeelingLucky]

Dakkon said:

rubystone said:

Dakkon said:

Wise words here, if they fail to get a title sponsor this year then there will be real question marks over their survival in the coming years, they are heading towards a critical point in their history.

Why do people think the team won't be able to survive? The rest of the McLaren group is profitable and their road car division trades heavily on the F1 link. This notion of a 'title sponsor' with deep pockets covering a large chunk of the operating budget has been dismissed by many in the business as being a thing of the past. In essence Honda is the title sponsor if one looks at which partner pays the most.

I'm sure that many people are impressed by Williams having Martini as a title sponsor? In reality that deal isn't worth anything like what it should be worth given the exposure Martini gets on the car. I can't recall the figures, but they are 'low'.

I predict that unlike RD, ZB will cut the rate card and sign someone as 'title sponsor' for 2018 just to take the heat out of this.

All I will say is that it is not as profitable as you think.

Aside from the fact McLaren Automotive is a separate company it is only profitable on paper. The investment just to get up and running was vast, and no sooner than they were just about on their feet, they invested in an entirely new production facility. On top of the continuous rolling investment in new product, there's now the new composite tub facility being built in Sheffield.

All of these investment costs are yet to be repaid, but it's immaterial, as it's a separate company.

The various profits being made by various McLaren subsidiaries is dwarfed by the annual spend of the F1 team.

Much of the bankrolling up to now has been Honda. How long do believe that will last? Neither entity are in this to be a laughing stock, how much longer do you believe either will let things go on as they are?

Mumtalakat have also poured untold millions into McLaren and are keen to see some return.

Make no mistake the clock IS ticking. And there's not long to go.

[belleair302]

I still think McLaren Group will offload the F1 team before an IPO and the investors will walk away within a decade holding just a small quota of shares. F1 doesnt work with the vision of tomorrow sadly.