McLaren's Next Engine Partner?

[Krikkit]

Woody said:

I think McLaren may have missed the boat for developing their own engine to the current regs.

Very much this imo - they're years behind in terms of design development and don't have anything close to the cash you'd need to funnel into the fire to get up to speed.

That, combined with a likely change of regulations in 2020 once the concorde agreement expires, means you'd have to be crazy to jump in now.

Unfortunately I suspect it'll be another bum year for McLaren this year, but they'll endure it in the short term.

[CraigyMc]

I think that economically, McLaren don't have the ability to take on a new engine partner.

[HustleRussell]

Mclaren's situation is pretty desperate but I don't buy into the idea that they're scrabbling to sign a deal with another engine manufacturer. IMO Honda's new engine will prove problematic in the short term but 2017 will be a repeat of 2016 with the PU improving in power and reliability to the point where we'll once again see some passable results- a couple of fifth places last year- maybe a fourth this season?

Disappointing, yes- but McLaren seem to have already resigned themselves to suffering another challenging year and next year is now 'their year'. Just maybe...

[glazbagun]

When do Mclaren/Ferrari etc have to renegotiate their legacy/whatever payments they get just for showing up?

I've just read this on how much money each team "won" last year:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123649

Personally I'd stick with Honda. Merc will charge, as will Renault. Honda is bombing them with money and paying for Alonso who is surely the last WDC they'll have in tbat seat if they don't improve. He gives them credibility even if his other talents are being wasted.

[CraigyMc]

glazbagun said:

When do Mclaren/Ferrari etc have to renegotiate their legacy/whatever payments they get just for showing up?

I've just read this on how much money each team "won" last year:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123649

Personally I'd stick with Honda. Merc will charge, as will Renault. Honda is bombing them with money and paying for Alonso who is surely the last WDC they'll have in tbat seat if they don't improve. He gives them credibility even if his other talents are being wasted.

The next year they have to do something is 2021.

[rubystone]

bobbo89 said:

I think the cogs may already be in motion for them to manufacture their own engine, it'd make a lot of commercial sense with the way their road cars are going.

They have no experience of doing that, nor the finances to do it. There are no cogs in motion to do that.

[rubystone]

Woody said:

You have to wonder if McLaren/Honda would be in this predicament if McLaren weren't the sole user.
Perhaps if they'd been allowed (I'm sure McLaren blocked it) to have a customer team supply development would have been better.

I think McLaren may have missed the boat for developing their own engine to the current regs.

Or imagine if Ron had not written in the veto for the first 2 years of the partnership...Honda have had enough trouble building enough engines to supply one team, let alone 2. RD was quite right in what he did. It is interesting that now that period of veto has passed, if one discounts the Manor rumours, no one has come knocking at Honda's door.

[CraigyMc]

rubystone said:

bobbo89 said:

I think the cogs may already be in motion for them to manufacture their own engine, it'd make a lot of commercial sense with the way their road cars are going.

They have no experience of doing that

Except for the option involving going to Ricardo to do the road car engines.

Ricardo are probably capable of doing this type of engine program (novel combustion etc).

It's really about the money.

[rdjohn]

When Audi quit WSC and VW quit WRC, the talk was that was for VW to to devote themselves to producing a PU, probably destined for Red Bull.

I think McLaren are stuck with Honda and vice-versa for the foreseeable future.

I think fans are also stuck with PUs, they will not be dropped any time soon. Ross Brawn made that pretty clear in the interview with Ted Kravitz.

[BrettMRC]

Could some purchase the Honda F1 engine dept/company and go their own way...clearly they have some good technical people who might benefit from different leadership.

[revrange]

No real choices, no one will commit until new engine formula is announced.

Plus it takes 3 years to build a decent engine under current regs so no one will come in.

Best hope is to go back to Mercedes and rebuild again, but sure i read no love is lost between Merc & mclaren now, although that might have changed with Ron leaving.

[glazbagun]

BrettMRC said:

Could some purchase the Honda F1 engine dept/company and go their own way...clearly they have some good technical people who might benefit from different leadership.

Has that ever worked? The only thing I can think of is when renault pulled out of F1 in the 90's because they felt they only ever got any press when they lost. Williams went from being the best constructor on the grid to going backwards with Mechachrome V10's... that may have been due to other staff leaving though.

[Crafty_]

BrettMRC said:

Could some purchase the Honda F1 engine dept/company and go their own way...clearly they have some good technical people who might benefit from different leadership.

Its integral to Honda, even if it was a separate department (much as Merc HPE are) there is no way Honda would sell it - the loss of face would not be acceptable - they'd just close it down like last time.

[rubystone]

CraigyMc said:

Except for the option involving going to Ricardo to do the road car engines.

Ricardo are probably capable of doing this type of engine program (novel combustion etc).

It's really about the money.

Ricardo are a commercial operation without the capacity to do this; capability? Maybe, capacity, nope.

[rubystone]

glazbagun said:

Has that ever worked? The only thing I can think of is when renault pulled out of F1 in the 90's because they felt they only ever got any press when they lost. Williams went from being the best constructor on the grid to going backwards with Mechachrome V10's... that may have been due to other staff leaving though.

Mechachrome was just a wrapper for Viry's work - Briatore no doubt made some cash out of that too. But it did keep Rob White in a job and Viry ticking over. Anyone remember Megatron? What engine was rebadged with that moniker?

[HustleRussell]

BMW M10?

[rubystone]

HustleRussell said:

BMW M10?

yep

[StevieBee]

An albiet uniformed - but possibly logical solution - would be for McLaren to absorb the Honda engine operation into Woking and develop it under their own direction. It soften the cost impact of setting up a totally new engine development sector and allow McLaren to bring in the right people to do the right jobs; which seems to be the crux of the current woes.

McLaren get a totally integrated car from front to back and allows Honda to bow out gracefully.

[ChemicalChaos]

Crafty_ said:

BrettMRC said:

Could some purchase the Honda F1 engine dept/company and go their own way...clearly they have some good technical people who might benefit from different leadership.

Its integral to Honda, even if it was a separate department (much as Merc HPE are) there is no way Honda would sell it - the loss of face would not be acceptable - they'd just close it down like last time.

What about the Mugen-Honda engines Jordan used to use? The Mugen name suggests they weren't an in-house Honda job

[thegreenhell]

ChemicalChaos said:

What about the Mugen-Honda engines Jordan used to use? The Mugen name suggests they weren't an in-house Honda job

Not exactly in-house, but there are strong family ties. The founder of Mugen was the son of Mr Honda, the founder of Honda Motor Company. So although Honda Motor Co. had no direct stake in Mugen, the owner of Mugen was a major shareholder in Honda Motor Co.