The Official 2017 Bahrain Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
RGambo said:
the intension was to hold up the Redbull, not doubt, but he went in ahead, and exited behind, so no advantage gained.
His intention was to avoid having to wait behind Bottas in the pit, while not allowing Ricciardo an advantage, but he actually ended up impeding all three of them. He slowed just enough that Bottas had to be held in the box while Ricciardo went past, so Hamilton ended up having to wait anyway, which is how he lost track position to the Red Bull. To make his plan work, penalty aside, he needed to slow enough to allow Bottas to actually leave the pit box before he and Ricciardo arrived on the scene, although he may have lost the place anyway as the Mercedes team had problems with their wheel guns.
andy_s said:
The way I saw Hamilton's move was to give the RB the same delay he was about to suffer due to having to stack. If Hamilton had come in normally he would have had to wait a few seconds directly behind Bottas but the RB could have continued and presented normally.
To me it looked like an advantage was gained, or at least planned to be gained.
Yeah basically Hamilton slowed down too much and then sped up. If he'd driven too slow too soon he'd have been passed ala Vettel, so he made his car wide, slowed down and then sped up again. To me it looked like an advantage was gained, or at least planned to be gained.
I imagine if be deccelerated evenly to the speed limit he'd have a defence, but I reckon he felt 5 secs was a price worth paying.
Ref the Hamilton penalty - I think it fair.
Ref the Vettel non penalty - he was lucky, the car clearly is not within the box. To argue that there was no offense as the rule was ambiguous and that the stewards have explained it... Amazingly, in a way that supports their decision.... who'd have expected that?
I don't think it's fowl play. Just two different decisions that happened to go this way.
It was an interesting race. Looked to me like the Mercedes still has a pace advantage overall but it's 2 or 3 tenths and therefore strategy and track position can make the difference. On balance, I'd still rather be in the Mercedes, but we really do have a battle on our hands.
Once again, the race showed the common held knowledge of safety car and pit stops is far less straight forward than is assumed. Like last weeks VSC issues. It's all about when it starts and where you are on track. I think Mercedes are a little conservative in their strategy (maybe they haven't had to be smart for so long that they're not very practiced). They have been making bad calls in the more complex decisions through the last few few years.... could well be the achilles heel of Lewis's tittle campaign.
Ref the Vettel non penalty - he was lucky, the car clearly is not within the box. To argue that there was no offense as the rule was ambiguous and that the stewards have explained it... Amazingly, in a way that supports their decision.... who'd have expected that?
I don't think it's fowl play. Just two different decisions that happened to go this way.
It was an interesting race. Looked to me like the Mercedes still has a pace advantage overall but it's 2 or 3 tenths and therefore strategy and track position can make the difference. On balance, I'd still rather be in the Mercedes, but we really do have a battle on our hands.
Once again, the race showed the common held knowledge of safety car and pit stops is far less straight forward than is assumed. Like last weeks VSC issues. It's all about when it starts and where you are on track. I think Mercedes are a little conservative in their strategy (maybe they haven't had to be smart for so long that they're not very practiced). They have been making bad calls in the more complex decisions through the last few few years.... could well be the achilles heel of Lewis's tittle campaign.
Edited by Hungrymc on Monday 17th April 16:10
jm doc said:
You can't have it both ways no matter how hard you try and wriggle.
Are you sure?>checks results<
Hmm, looks like you can have it both ways, wriggling not required!
That was a great race. Genuinely the first race I've properly enjoyed in several years (I missed the first two this year as I've been away so happy to catch the third one).
We all know that Ferrari will make decisions that benefit Seb even if they mess up Kimis race.
It'll be interesting to see how long till Merc do the same.
Yesterday they may have asked Bottas to move over (which they've done before with Nico) but how long till they do things like undercutting at pit stops etc ?
It'll be interesting to see how long till Merc do the same.
Yesterday they may have asked Bottas to move over (which they've done before with Nico) but how long till they do things like undercutting at pit stops etc ?
andy_s said:
The way I saw Hamilton's move was to give the RB the same delay he was about to suffer due to having to stack. If Hamilton had come in normally he would have had to wait a few seconds directly behind Bottas but the RB could have continued and presented normally.
To me it looked like an advantage was gained, or at least planned to be gained.
To me it looked like an advantage was gained, or at least planned to be gained.
Whatever some blinkered posters are saying he unquestionably gained an advantage over Ricciardo, even if it was soon negated.
It's amazing to see his fans arguing that Hamilton didn't do what he has admitted and apologised for.
jsf said:
What I find rather odd is that Mercedes blamed too high tyre pressures on a generator failure.
You don't need a generator to let the tyres down, you use a tyre pressure gauge.
Even the spot checks carried out by the FIA to check start pressures aren't too low use a hand held gauge.
What happens if they let too much air out? Does someone get the foot pump out? You don't need a generator to let the tyres down, you use a tyre pressure gauge.
Even the spot checks carried out by the FIA to check start pressures aren't too low use a hand held gauge.
London424 said:
jsf said:
What I find rather odd is that Mercedes blamed too high tyre pressures on a generator failure.
You don't need a generator to let the tyres down, you use a tyre pressure gauge.
Even the spot checks carried out by the FIA to check start pressures aren't too low use a hand held gauge.
What happens if they let too much air out? Does someone get the foot pump out? You don't need a generator to let the tyres down, you use a tyre pressure gauge.
Even the spot checks carried out by the FIA to check start pressures aren't too low use a hand held gauge.
jsf said:
What I find rather odd is that Mercedes blamed too high tyre pressures on a generator failure.
You don't need a generator to let the tyres down, you use a tyre pressure gauge.
Even the spot checks carried out by the FIA to check start pressures aren't too low use a hand held gauge.
I would love to read a technical explanation for this.You don't need a generator to let the tyres down, you use a tyre pressure gauge.
Even the spot checks carried out by the FIA to check start pressures aren't too low use a hand held gauge.
Presumably, they use an inert gas like Nitrogen. Presumably they don't use a crappy Schreider valve as it upsets the wheel balance. But why could they not just borrow Lewis's, or have a spare brought from the pits etc?
This is a top team performing at the pinnacle of the sport and get stymied by such a simple thing. Very odd !
jsf said:
What I find rather odd is that Mercedes blamed too high tyre pressures on a generator failure.
You don't need a generator to let the tyres down, you use a tyre pressure gauge.
Even the spot checks carried out by the FIA to check start pressures aren't too low use a hand held gauge.
It is odd, but I'm thankful that it didn't happen to a certain Mr. Hamilton. Merc dodged a bullet there. You don't need a generator to let the tyres down, you use a tyre pressure gauge.
Even the spot checks carried out by the FIA to check start pressures aren't too low use a hand held gauge.
jsf said:
London424 said:
jsf said:
What I find rather odd is that Mercedes blamed too high tyre pressures on a generator failure.
You don't need a generator to let the tyres down, you use a tyre pressure gauge.
Even the spot checks carried out by the FIA to check start pressures aren't too low use a hand held gauge.
What happens if they let too much air out? Does someone get the foot pump out? You don't need a generator to let the tyres down, you use a tyre pressure gauge.
Even the spot checks carried out by the FIA to check start pressures aren't too low use a hand held gauge.
London424 said:
jsf said:
London424 said:
jsf said:
What I find rather odd is that Mercedes blamed too high tyre pressures on a generator failure.
You don't need a generator to let the tyres down, you use a tyre pressure gauge.
Even the spot checks carried out by the FIA to check start pressures aren't too low use a hand held gauge.
What happens if they let too much air out? Does someone get the foot pump out? You don't need a generator to let the tyres down, you use a tyre pressure gauge.
Even the spot checks carried out by the FIA to check start pressures aren't too low use a hand held gauge.
http://www.m-a-horne.co.uk/products/gauges.php
Its not rocket science here chaps.
rdjohn said:
jsf said:
What I find rather odd is that Mercedes blamed too high tyre pressures on a generator failure.
You don't need a generator to let the tyres down, you use a tyre pressure gauge.
Even the spot checks carried out by the FIA to check start pressures aren't too low use a hand held gauge.
I would love to read a technical explanation for this.You don't need a generator to let the tyres down, you use a tyre pressure gauge.
Even the spot checks carried out by the FIA to check start pressures aren't too low use a hand held gauge.
Presumably, they use an inert gas like Nitrogen. Presumably they don't use a crappy Schreider valve as it upsets the wheel balance. But why could they not just borrow Lewis's, or have a spare brought from the pits etc?
This is a top team performing at the pinnacle of the sport and get stymied by such a simple thing. Very odd !
They are not allowed to use more sophisticated valves such as those that bleed off pressure automatically.
jsf said:
rdjohn said:
jsf said:
What I find rather odd is that Mercedes blamed too high tyre pressures on a generator failure.
You don't need a generator to let the tyres down, you use a tyre pressure gauge.
Even the spot checks carried out by the FIA to check start pressures aren't too low use a hand held gauge.
I would love to read a technical explanation for this.You don't need a generator to let the tyres down, you use a tyre pressure gauge.
Even the spot checks carried out by the FIA to check start pressures aren't too low use a hand held gauge.
Presumably, they use an inert gas like Nitrogen. Presumably they don't use a crappy Schreider valve as it upsets the wheel balance. But why could they not just borrow Lewis's, or have a spare brought from the pits etc?
This is a top team performing at the pinnacle of the sport and get stymied by such a simple thing. Very odd !
They are not allowed to use more sophisticated valves such as those that bleed off pressure automatically.
London424 said:
We all know that Ferrari will make decisions that benefit Seb even if they mess up Kimis race.
It'll be interesting to see how long till Merc do the same.
Yesterday they may have asked Bottas to move over (which they've done before with Nico) but how long till they do things like undercutting at pit stops etc ?
I don't think they ever did that with Rosberg.It'll be interesting to see how long till Merc do the same.
Yesterday they may have asked Bottas to move over (which they've done before with Nico) but how long till they do things like undercutting at pit stops etc ?
In any case they don't need to, they are quite happy to ask a driver to move aside.
Crafty_ said:
London424 said:
We all know that Ferrari will make decisions that benefit Seb even if they mess up Kimis race.
It'll be interesting to see how long till Merc do the same.
Yesterday they may have asked Bottas to move over (which they've done before with Nico) but how long till they do things like undercutting at pit stops etc ?
I don't think they ever did that with Rosberg.It'll be interesting to see how long till Merc do the same.
Yesterday they may have asked Bottas to move over (which they've done before with Nico) but how long till they do things like undercutting at pit stops etc ?
In any case they don't need to, they are quite happy to ask a driver to move aside.
Lead driver has always had first stop (when the cars were close), they'll both 2 stop etc.
Will be interesting to see if/when they change that approach.
jsf said:
The gauges they use read to 0.1PSI, they use this one.
http://www.m-a-horne.co.uk/products/gauges.php
Its not rocket science here chaps.
Admittedly I'm a home mechanic at best and when Toto made that comment I assumed they had something in place to adjust tyre pressure on the go. I understand how stupidly complicated that'd be to engineer but everything in F1 is so way beyond my mechanical knowledge that I assume most things are possible. http://www.m-a-horne.co.uk/products/gauges.php
Its not rocket science here chaps.
bobbo89 said:
jsf said:
The gauges they use read to 0.1PSI, they use this one.
http://www.m-a-horne.co.uk/products/gauges.php
Its not rocket science here chaps.
Admittedly I'm a home mechanic at best and when Toto made that comment I assumed they had something in place to adjust tyre pressure on the go. I understand how stupidly complicated that'd be to engineer but everything in F1 is so way beyond my mechanical knowledge that I assume most things are possible. http://www.m-a-horne.co.uk/products/gauges.php
Its not rocket science here chaps.
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