The Official 2017 Bahrain Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**

[FourWheelDrift]

Bahrain test 1:30pm - http://www.crash.net/f1/results/244744/1/bahrain-f...

1. Daniel Ricciardo AUS Red Bull - TAG 1m 32.349s 43 laps
2. Lewis Hamilton GBR Mercedes - Mercedes 1m 32.822s 27
3. Nico Hulkenberg GER Renault - Renault 1m 33.624s 43
4. Lance Stroll CAN Williams - Mercedes 1m 33.729s 35
5. Romain Grosjean FRA Haas-Ferrari 1m 33.848s 40
6. Antonio Giovinazzi ITA Ferrari- Ferrari 1m 34.967s 62
7. Sebastian Vettel GER Ferrari - Ferrari 1m 35.043s * 48
8. Marcus Ericsson SWE Sauber - Ferrari 1m 35.317s 52
9. Alfonso Celis MEX Force India-Mercedes 1m 37.661s 21
10. Sean Gelael INA Toro Rosso-Renault 1m 38.111s 27
11. Oliver Turvey GBR McLaren-Honda No Time 2

[rscott]

London424 said:

jsf said:

London424 said:

jsf said:

What I find rather odd is that Mercedes blamed too high tyre pressures on a generator failure.

You don't need a generator to let the tyres down, you use a tyre pressure gauge.

Even the spot checks carried out by the FIA to check start pressures aren't too low use a hand held gauge.

What happens if they let too much air out? Does someone get the foot pump out?

No, they get fired for being a cretin. It's not hard to let the correct amount of air out. I use the same gauges the teams and FIA use.

But they are dealing with tiny margins here. Let's say you get each tyre 0.1 psi wrong, the effect that has on the balance of the car.

Would tyre warmers be in use on the grid? If so, presumably the generator was for them and the tyres were too cool, hence pressure was too high for that temperature?

[Derek Smith]

Dr Z said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Derek Smith said:

He didn't. The team did. He asked why they had opted for them so it seems he expected the SS tyres.

There always seems to be a conspiracy against Mercedes anytime it involves Hamilton.

Surely telling Bottas to move over for Hamilton must be enough evidence that they are not doing anything to destroy Hamilton's title challenge.

The super soft tyres were not the tyres to be on. Bottas was on these and he clearly was not making any headway in front of Hamilton.

There is no way Hamilton would have been able to drive flat out for the rest of the GP if he had been on SS.

It looked to me that Mercedes made several questionable strategy decisions this race.

1) Bottas was struggling to get away from Vettel and the chasing pack in the 1st stint. The gaps were so close to the extent that Verstappen would have had a good chance of undercutting Hamilton. Why weren't Merc proactive in pitting Bottas out of the way? Were Merc still undecided on a 2-stop or a 1-stop, so were dithering in no-mans land?

2) Why was Bottas put on a super soft tyre for his 2nd stint, given he struggled so much with that tyre in the 1st stint (and indeed he struggled to control that tyre in the friday eve long runs too--that often gives a better indication on race pace)? A longer middle stint on the Soft might have been a better option, so he could come back at the leading pack later on in the race with lower fuel loads on the super soft. Particularly as immediately after Ferrari pitted, it was clear that Merc would have lost the lead if they'd have chosen to react to Ferrari with Bottas or Hamilton.

3) Putting Bottas on the super soft for the middle stint compounded the problem they had with both drivers on different strategy, but the one on the better tyre stuck behind the compromised one. The strategy people might say, that they decided to split the strat, but really? If you still want to keep the lead car strat going, why put him on the tyre that he couldn't make it work? Put him on the Soft, see how he goes with that. Put Hamilton on SS to mirror Ferrari. Switch the pawns around so Hamilton is pressuring Vettel.

The team order came too late as Vettel had stretched his lead leaving Hamilton too much to do in his 2nd stint to cut that gap.

4) Soft for Hamilton in the final stint seemed to be the right choice, but I believe it was dictated by the fact that Hamilton had to make up a lot of time to Vettel and still need to have tyre left to fight him, if he were to pass on track. However, a super soft would have been a better option if Hamilton had managed to pressure Vettel in the 2nd stint, so he could have made up the time in less laps, and had a real go at passing Vettel (tyre advantage+bigger delta of supersoft vs softs).

Merc generally do a debrief with their strategy guy (James Vowles), explaining the thinking behind some of their calls later in the week. Hopefully it provides some answers.

The stranger thing for me is Bottas struggling to get a handle on these tyres. I've followed his progress at Williams with the previous gen Pirellis, it was never a problem. There were more occasions when Massa struggled to control the previous Pirellis, and really suffered because of it, than Bottas. Every other driver on the grid is able to put in a good long run on these tyres, no problem.

I don't know if he has yet to find a sweet spot with the car that can give him that feeling for the tyres or not, but it's weird. I'm not sure if his decent 1-lap pace despite this, is good or bad. Probably good in that, the potential to unlock better one-lap pace is there if he can control the beast on heavy fuel loads.

I'm not totally averse to conspiracy theories as if the teams are not making decisions for the benefit of the team/sponsors then they are not doing their job. Further, they might need to make such strategic decisions behind closed doors. That said, Hamilton is their jewel in the crown so if there is a conspiracy that ignores the interests of one of their drivers, it's not Hamilton.

As for not being able to drive flat out on SS tyres, the cars were very light, there was a lot of rubber on the track and I would assume the call was a bit marginal. I thought at the time that SS was the way to go but, remarkable though it seems, I've been wrong before.

As for Bottas and his struggle with tyres, Dr Z, is this because he is still new to the car? That was what was suggested on the Ch4 commentary but I would have thought that the car was a bit new to LH as well. How can it be that much of a problem to a chap as experienced as Bottas?

I've got the feeling that there is/will be in short order a concentration on LH to negate the Ferrari challenge. (See the paragraph but one above.) They have the option of waiting for the (inevitable?) improvements for the Merc that will come on line soon.

I tell you what, I'm thoroughly enjoying this season. Lots and lots of ifs. As I normally do after the third race of the season, I've had a bet with a couple of mates with regards the 1, 2, 3 at the end of the season and none of us are confident.

Now my rugby season is coming to an end, I can see Now! TV taking a pounding.

[London424]

Some cool onboard stuff from the race.

https://twitter.com/f1/status/854308770897432578

[FourWheelDrift]

End of Bahrain test day 1

1. Lewis Hamilton GBR Mercedes - Mercedes 1m 31.358s 97
2. Antonio Giovinazzi ITA Ferrari- Ferrari 1m 31.984s 93
3. Daniel Ricciardo AUS Red Bull - TAG 1m 32.349s 45
4. Romain Grosjean FRA Haas-Ferrari 1m 32.452s 86
5. Felipe Massa BRA Williams - Mercedes 1m 32.509s 55
6. Nico Hulkenberg GER Renault - Renault 1m 33.624s 73
7. Lance Stroll CAN Williams - Mercedes 1m 33.729s 35
8. Sean Gelael INA Toro Rosso-Renault 1m 33.865s 78
9. Sebastian Vettel GER Ferrari - Ferrari 1m 33.894s * 89
10. Alfonso Celis MEX Force India-Mercedes 1m 34.550s 71
11. Marcus Ericsson SWE Sauber - Ferrari 1m 35.011s 106
12. Oliver Turvey GBR McLaren-Honda No Time 16

Read more at http://www.crash.net/f1/results/244751/1/bahrain-f...

[ZX10R NIN]

FourWheelDrift said:

End of Bahrain test day 1

1. Lewis Hamilton GBR Mercedes - Mercedes 1m 31.358s 97
2. Antonio Giovinazzi ITA Ferrari- Ferrari 1m 31.984s 93
3. Daniel Ricciardo AUS Red Bull - TAG 1m 32.349s 45
4. Romain Grosjean FRA Haas-Ferrari 1m 32.452s 86
5. Felipe Massa BRA Williams - Mercedes 1m 32.509s 55
6. Nico Hulkenberg GER Renault - Renault 1m 33.624s 73
7. Lance Stroll CAN Williams - Mercedes 1m 33.729s 35
8. Sean Gelael INA Toro Rosso-Renault 1m 33.865s 78
9. Sebastian Vettel GER Ferrari - Ferrari 1m 33.894s * 89
10. Alfonso Celis MEX Force India-Mercedes 1m 34.550s 71
11. Marcus Ericsson SWE Sauber - Ferrari 1m 35.011s 106
12. Oliver Turvey GBR McLaren-Honda No Time 16

Read more at http://www.crash.net/f1/results/244751/1/bahrain-f...

That's a very respectable time by Antonio

[jm doc]

Dr Z said:

It's called logic. I don't expect you to understand it.

No doubt the same logic you used to explain how it's ok to have your wheels over the line at the front of your grid box??

I think it's actually called magical thinking. You wish it to be true therefore it is.

Magic.

[Dr Z]

jm doc said:

No doubt the same logic you used to explain how it's ok to have your wheels over the line at the front of your grid box??

I never said anything of the sort, and you know it. You're simply here to argue, and it's not worth it. You win. Carry on.

Derek Smith said:

As for Bottas and his struggle with tyres, Dr Z, is this because he is still new to the car? That was what was suggested on the Ch4 commentary but I would have thought that the car was a bit new to LH as well. How can it be that much of a problem to a chap as experienced as Bottas?

I've wondered this too, Bottas has done what, 12-14 race distances in the car including preseason testing? I think di Resta in the Sky coverage noted how pointy his car was in qualifying compared to Hamilton, which would be bad news in the race interms of tyre degradation. It suggests Bottas is still chasing a setup with the car that will allow him to have that control over the tyres in qualifying and race...and probably a bit of pressure to perform as well. It's something to keep an eye on, as only when he's able to get to a position where he can properly control the tyres will we see his true pace. Until then, I think Lewis will have a clear upper hand.

[Dr Z]

Btw, just an update, unfortunately I couldn't get hold of the GPS data for Ferrari cars in Bahrain so we couldn't know if the half a second deficit in qualifying was simply due to their engines turned down compared to China. Will look out for it in the future races though.

[FourWheelDrift]

Bahrain test day 2 1:30pm

1. Valtteri Bottas FIN Mercedes - Mercedes 1m 31.771s 79 laps
2. Esteban Ocon FRA Force India-Mercedes 1m 32.142s 60
3. Daniil Kvyat RUS Toro Rosso-Renault 1m 32.213s 61
4. Sebastian Vettel GER Ferrari - Ferrari 1m 32.615s 12
5. Gary Paffett GBR Williams - Mercedes 1m 33.157s 59
6. Stoffel Vandoorne BEL McLaren-Honda 1m 33.190s 49
7. Kevin Magnussen DEN Haas-Ferrari 1m 33.192s 37
8. Sergey Sirtotkin RUS Renault - Renault 1m 34.174s 44
9. Pierre Gasly FRA Red Bull - TAG 1m 34.407s 51
10. Pascal Wehrlein GER Sauber - Ferrari 1m 35.212s 42

Read more at http://www.crash.net/f1/results/244764/1/bahrain-f...

[Derek Smith]

Dr Z said:

Derek Smith said:

As for Bottas and his struggle with tyres, Dr Z, is this because he is still new to the car? That was what was suggested on the Ch4 commentary but I would have thought that the car was a bit new to LH as well. How can it be that much of a problem to a chap as experienced as Bottas?

I've wondered this too, Bottas has done what, 12-14 race distances in the car including preseason testing? I think di Resta in the Sky coverage noted how pointy his car was in qualifying compared to Hamilton, which would be bad news in the race interms of tyre degradation. It suggests Bottas is still chasing a setup with the car that will allow him to have that control over the tyres in qualifying and race...and probably a bit of pressure to perform as well. It's something to keep an eye on, as only when he's able to get to a position where he can properly control the tyres will we see his true pace. Until then, I think Lewis will have a clear upper hand.

Thanks for that.

I'm used to being wrong in my F1 predictions, but I expected more from him in the races.

D'you think he's under much pressure? Isn't he there for the WCC only?

[jm doc]

Dr Z said:

jm doc said:

No doubt the same logic you used to explain how it's ok to have your wheels over the line at the front of your grid box??

I never said anything of the sort, and you know it. You're simply here to argue, and it's not worth it. You win. Carry on.

I think if you check, it was you that said I was illogical and you disputed a clearly factual statement that I had made and supported with the actual regulation governing grid position. There was nothing in that regulation which stated that certain white lines were more important than any others. Logical deduction therefore tells us that, unless stated, all lines delineating grid position must therefore be equally important (and common sense).

You chose to dispute this as well as personalising your comments.

Feel free to flounce off though.

[Dr Z]

Derek Smith said:

D'you think he's under much pressure? Isn't he there for the WCC only?

I think he's under pressure to be at Hamilton's level straight away, and his performances in the first three races have only increased that expectation. I very much doubt he's been hired to play second fiddle to Hamilton, but the expectation has been that Bottas will be close enough to Hamilton earlier on in the season that Mercedes can use him to cover any threat from other teams, if he's not ultimately at Hamilton's pace. And at some point be quick enough to challenge Hamilton on pure pace...

Vettel clearly knows how Merc run the strategy, so he's managed to get between the Mercs at every opportunity so far and derailed the Plan A for Merc...and this is a bit of an annoyance for Merc, at the moment. Bottas has not been quick enough in the races so far to put pressure on Vettel, and this is allowing Vettel is push Hamilton and the Merc strategy to breaking point. IMHO.

[coetzeeh]

jm doc said:

Dr Z said:

jm doc said:

No doubt the same logic you used to explain how it's ok to have your wheels over the line at the front of your grid box??

I never said anything of the sort, and you know it. You're simply here to argue, and it's not worth it. You win. Carry on.

I think if you check, it was you that said I was illogical and you disputed a clearly factual statement that I had made and supported with the actual regulation governing grid position. There was nothing in that regulation which stated that certain white lines were more important than any others. Logical deduction therefore tells us that, unless stated, all lines delineating grid position must therefore be equally important (and common sense).

You chose to dispute this as well as personalising your comments.

Feel free to flounce off though.

The officials disagree with you and so do most of us.

Edited by coetzeeh on Wednesday 19th April 22:31

[jm doc]

coetzeeh said:

jm doc said:

Dr Z said:

jm doc said:

No doubt the same logic you used to explain how it's ok to have your wheels over the line at the front of your grid box??

I never said anything of the sort, and you know it. You're simply here to argue, and it's not worth it. You win. Carry on.

I think if you check, it was you that said I was illogical and you disputed a clearly factual statement that I had made and supported with the actual regulation governing grid position. There was nothing in that regulation which stated that certain white lines were more important than any others. Logical deduction therefore tells us that, unless stated, all lines delineating grid position must therefore be equally important (and common sense).

You chose to dispute this as well as personalising your comments.

Feel free to flounce off though.

The officials disagree with you and so do most of us.

Edited by coetzeeh on Wednesday 19th April 22:31

Doesn't make it right though, does it? Vettel was out of position on the grid, that's clearly against the rules (if you bothered to read them). He got off scot free. You are welcome to believe whatever bt you are fed. Sadly that's how they get away with it.

[Disastrous]

jm doc said:

Doesn't make it right though, does it? Vettel was out of position on the grid, that's clearly against the rules (if you bothered to read them). He got off scot free. You are welcome to believe whatever bt you are fed. Sadly that's how they get away with it.

Boring now. Get over it.

[Gary C]

jm doc said:

Doesn't make it right though, does it? Vettel was out of position on the grid, that's clearly against the rules (if you bothered to read them). He got off scot free. You are welcome to believe whatever bt you are fed. Sadly that's how they get away with it.

What bks.

[tristancliffe]

jm doc said:

Doesn't make it right though, does it? Vettel was out of position on the grid, that's clearly against the rules (if you bothered to read them). He got off scot free. You are welcome to believe whatever bt you are fed. Sadly that's how they get away with it.

So does the entire car have to be inside the white lines? What if part of the car is touching the white lines demarking the grid box, even if it's only one atom? What if the tyre is on the white line. What if some of the tyre is outside the white line, but the tyre is still touching it? Even if it's only one atom? How about the majority of the car is inside the box? What if the CoG of the car, viewed from above, is inside the box? Where, precisely and measurably, is the limit? Can the FIA detect car position to one atom yet??

That's the ambiguity. I'm sure the rules will change to make it clearer. I'm not convinced that making the rules more black and white is necessarily a good thing overall, but that's the process.

[Derek Smith]

Dr Z said:

I think he's under pressure to be at Hamilton's level straight away, and his performances in the first three races have only increased that expectation. I very much doubt he's been hired to play second fiddle to Hamilton, but the expectation has been that Bottas will be close enough to Hamilton earlier on in the season that Mercedes can use him to cover any threat from other teams, if he's not ultimately at Hamilton's pace. And at some point be quick enough to challenge Hamilton on pure pace...

Vettel clearly knows how Merc run the strategy, so he's managed to get between the Mercs at every opportunity so far and derailed the Plan A for Merc...and this is a bit of an annoyance for Merc, at the moment. Bottas has not been quick enough in the races so far to put pressure on Vettel, and this is allowing Vettel is push Hamilton and the Merc strategy to breaking point. IMHO.

Thanks for that.

It looks promising for the season ahead, doesn't it. Lots and lots of intrigue, tactics, spats and moans. Just what we want, a competition between two fairly evenly matched teams. On top of that there's the promise, unfulfilled for this race, of a thrilling battle between the two RB guys.

The only down for me is the poor performance of Williams.

I was worried about this new formula. At the moment it seems my fears were groundless.

[thegreenhell]

jm doc said:

Doesn't make it right though, does it? Vettel was out of position on the grid, that's clearly against the rules (if you bothered to read them). He got off scot free. You are welcome to believe whatever bt you are fed. Sadly that's how they get away with it.

If you want to be really pedantic about it, Hamilton was also clearly lined up with his left-hand wheels over the white line of his grid box, so perhaps he should also have been penalised, along with about a third of the grid doing the same. Or is a little bit of 'against the rules' acceptable? Where do you draw the line (sic)?