The Official 2017 Russian Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**

[Vaud]

REALIST123 said:

Perhaps he didn't watch that one?

Ha ha - true!

[Eric Mc]

REALIST123 said:

Eric Mc said:

I wouldn't go so far as to say it was the most boring Grand Prix since 1980 - but it wasn't great.

However, the lack of ability to follow and overtake was predicted by virtually anybody who knows anything - so it wasn't surprising.

There was overtaking and following fairly closely, in Australia and Bahrain. Vettel seemed to be able to follow closely yesterday. Other circuits and without Massa once again hampering Ferrari he might even have been able to attempt to overtake.

This was mainly down to Sochi being unfit for purpose as a GP circuit.

I sometimes think people are too quick to blame the circuits. My dislike of certain circuits usually stems from more non racing attributes - such as general location or drab settings.

I don't think these current cars are going to improve the ability to follow and overtake. Indeed, as the season progresses and the true characteristics of the cars are better understood, matters tend to settle down and get even duller. Often, in the first season of a new formula, the first half of the season is the best and the least predictable.

We could already have seen the best F1 races this year.

[entropy]

Dr Z said:

I must admit, I was a little nervous and not sure Bottas could hold it together as Vettel was closing the gap. It just takes a slight misstep with lapping traffic and you could get into a tough position, so he did well.

I knew he'd be fine on the ultra softs, but after that massive lock up in the 2nd stint, I was not sure he could drive with all that vibration and keep the Ferrari at bay, navigating traffic. But, it would've been difficult to pass as the Merc was so fast in the 1st sector.

There wasn't much on-track dicing but I enjoyed seeing drivers pushing like hell...especially how Vettel and Bottas were trading laptimes. The Merc was not as fast as the Ferrari in the 2nd sector but man, Bottas was trying his darn hardest to match the Ferrari and succeeding over the course of the 2nd half of the race.

I never doubted the win. He's solid and dependable in F1. Had it been a 55 lap race then Seb would have have been more likely to win.

LDN said:

I'm not sure why people doubted Bottas... I, for one, never did. Those 'in the know' have always rated him; Frank Williams being one of them. He is a genuine contender for the title this year. Simple as that. Anyone that doubted him; where did you get that view from??

He was given a one year contract by his employer who was also his manager (now not no more). Toto Wolf is 'in the know' and if he does rate Bottas then I would have expected at the very least a two year deal with option for a third.

It's great for Valtteri to get his first win and hopefully many more to come but the season has still has a long way to go and needs to consistently go toe to toe with Lewis and Seb.

[HustleRussell]

Eric Mc said:

I don't think these current cars are going to improve the ability to follow and overtake. Indeed, as the season progresses and the true characteristics of the cars are better understood, matters tend to settle down and get even duller. Often, in the first season of a new formula, the first half of the season is the best and the least predictable.

Do we not think that while dirty air is a general problem with the sport, the fact that the Mercedes seems to suffer more than the Ferrari might even add an interesting new curve ball into the season?

Eric Mc said:

We could already have seen the best F1 races this year.

Ever the optimist Eric...

[macdeb]

What a bore-fest, don't think I'll be watching anymore. Commentators have difficult job of making it sound exciting, like, Vettel might catch him. Wow. As for the drone that is Coulthard No wonder Malaysia are dropping it after this season (isn't that where PETRONAS are based) speaks volumes. I'll stick with MotoGP,as there is,,,, wait for it,,,,,,overtaking.

[The Moose]

I must say it impressed me that the commentators could talk for so long about so little! I guess one of the benefits of having a multi pit stop race. Wish they'd bring back mid-race refueling.

I still am not certain Bottas is a great driver, but only time will tell. He still hasn't beaten Lewis in a straight fight.

[HustleRussell]

The Moose said:

I must say it impressed me that the commentators could talk for so long about so little! I guess one of the benefits of having a multi pit stop race. Wish they'd bring back mid-race refueling.

I still am not certain Bottas is a great driver, but only time will tell. He still hasn't beaten Lewis in a straight fight.

I'm not going to try and convince anyone that I think Bottas is better than Hamilton, but were Bahrain and Sochi qualifying not straight fights?

[deadslow]

The Moose said:

I still am not certain Bottas is a great driver, but only time will tell. He still hasn't beaten Lewis in a straight fight.

well, he was at the same circuit in the same car. How is that not a straight fight?

The race really came alive when they left Vettel out. I enjoyed it.

[cuprabob]

A bit like when Red Bull were dominating, if the Mercs are running in clean air they can go and hide but as soon as they are in the pack their advantage seems to be nullified.

Early days for Bottas, only time will tell if he is a real challenger of the WDC. I don't think he was only given a 1 year contract because they doubted his ability nit more because it made good business sense as at the end of the year some big hitters are out of contract.

[glazbagun]

The Moose said:

I still am not certain Bottas is a great driver, but only time will tell. He still hasn't beaten Lewis in a straight fight.

At least Mentally Broken is a joke, I think I'll go mad if I hear this as much as last year!

I don't think they'll be allowed to race each other much this season. At best they'll scrap until the first pitstop. At worst, the guy with the weakest shot of the WDC will be given rear gunner status unless he can blast off from the start like Bottas did this race.

[moanthebairns]

If that doesn't tell you F1 is broken and dying on its arse I have no idea what will. I watched the race in full, I wish i'd just watched the highlights.

Brutal. Utterly fking awful. Not one overtake after the first lap, thats embarrassing.

theyd be as well turning it into a hill climb

[London424]

That track has always been awful, just a heads up for everyone but just in case, Monaco will be rubbish too.

[KevinCamaroSS]

deadslow said:

The Moose said:

I still am not certain Bottas is a great driver, but only time will tell. He still hasn't beaten Lewis in a straight fight.

well, he was at the same circuit in the same car. How is that not a straight fight?

Did you not listen to any car/pits radio then? Hamilton had problems with his car over-heating for whatever reason. As soon as he pushed it a bit the car overheated. So, no, not a straight fight yet.

[Crafty_]

I can see LM having a quiet word and asking for the track to be resurfaced to increase abrasiveness and thus increasing tyre deg.

[Eric Mc]

ash73 said:

Eric Mc said:

I sometimes think people are too quick to blame the circuits.

Come on Eric, surely you can see how poor the track is? It's fundamentally limited because they had to construct it around the existing Olympic stadiums, it's a terrible design with a plague of right angle corners. Just compare it to somewhere like Spa or Monza.

Fixing the cars isn't the answer, the cars and tracks go hand in hand they need to fix both.

I generally prefer a circuit based on an existing street or road plan rather than some artificial desert drome designed on a computer

Some circuits facilitate overtaking and the specs of the cars also help or hinder overtaking.

The skill of GP racing for me has always been how drivers cope with different circuit layouts. Giving them cars that don't work around certain circuits is not their fault.

Edited by Eric Mc on Monday 1st May 16:46

[Rich_W]

thegreenhell said:

Selective stats don't tell the whole story.

Bottas (2014-16)

0 wins
0 Poles
2 front row starts
0 Fastest Laps
9 podiums
407 points

Massa at Williams in the same time (14-16)

0 wins
1 Pole
1 Fastest lap
5 podiums
308 points

Qualifying head-to-head:

Bottas 41-17 Massa

Not "that" selective! Not like I was choosing specific circuits or some other random denominator

But tbh if he was as good as people suggest he should have been easily wiping the floor with Massa. A driver who peaked in 08 and even without his horrible incident in 09, was on the downslope of his career.

Ahonen said:

There are only two drivers in an F1 team, so you must be mistaken there by saying he's a number four. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the sport.

How very droll.

My point was more that with the shocker of Rosberg retiring, who else could they have chosen? Bottas is the perfect choice, fast enough to assist with points scoring. Maybe even the odd win when the race is a borefest and Lewis having a mare. But not so fast as to consistently beat Lewis. In a few ways he reminds me of Kovalinen. Like the porridge, fast but not too fast.

Ahonen said:

The Finns have a word that sums their general demeanour up pretty well: "sisu". I've got a feeling Hamilton will learn to understand that sisu is not just a small truck company during this season...

Sisu kinda means "courage under fire" and a variant of "stoicism" Not sure Bottas really fits anything more than just the standard Finns don't speak much* He's not imho an enigma like Kimi or the more jovial Mika. He's just a bit monotone.


*Which having been to Helsinki, and partied with them at 4am, isn't exactly a national trait they adhere to constantly

glazbagun said:

I don't see Bottas being easy to push around given his spats with Kimi over the years.

Of the 2 Finns, Kimi is definitely the tougher one mentally.

VB allowed KR to get to him. Probably cause KR just shrugged in that way of his every time.

entropy said:

He was given a one year contract by his employer who was also his manager (now not no more). Toto Wolf is 'in the know' and if he does rate Bottas then I would have expected at the very least a two year deal with option for a third.

It's great for Valtteri to get his first win and hopefully many more to come but the season has still has a long way to go and needs to consistently go toe to toe with Lewis and Seb.

[deadslow]

KevinCamaroSS said:

deadslow said:

The Moose said:

I still am not certain Bottas is a great driver, but only time will tell. He still hasn't beaten Lewis in a straight fight.

well, he was at the same circuit in the same car. How is that not a straight fight?

Did you not listen to any car/pits radio then? Hamilton had problems with his car over-heating for whatever reason. As soon as he pushed it a bit the car overheated. So, no, not a straight fight yet.

yeah, they all seemed to have different problems they were nursing along, and yes, I did hear Hamilton crying to his engineer

[swisstoni]

ash73 said:

Assuming you mean wheel to wheel, if he's 36 seconds up the road he doesn't need to.

i have said all along that Bottas may be at least as good as Rosberg but you really are having a laugh to think he could leave Hamilton behind by 36 seconds under normal circs.

[FourWheelDrift]

London424 said:

That track has always been awful, just a heads up for everyone but just in case, Monaco will be rubbish too.

I think Monaco is going to be a blue flag race, if everyone gets spaced out the same way as they have been in Russia they will be all be queuing around the circuit in no time.

[Dr Z]

ash73 said:

I think this win could be a big stepping stone for Valtteri, he's got the first victory in the bag, silenced his critics and he won it in style thrashing his teammate rather than benefiting from the misfortune of others. It's a monkey off his back; let's see what it does to his confidence.

Looks like Kimi is getting up to speed too, pity the RBRs haven't joined the party yet but they've got a major upgrade coming.

Yep, I think it should help lift his performance a bit. Still, would like to see how he goes in a high deg circuit vs Hamilton though, to see if he's really got the feel for the tyres fully over a stint. Next race on the calendar should sort that. If he then continues on that trajectory, you know Montreal should be a great contest, as it's probably one of his best tracks. Talking of mentally broken, if he could outpace Lewis at Montreal...now that would be a proper blow.

Had some GPS data kicking about from Bahrain qualifying re: RBR, thought I'd share.



I think the Red Bull bad performance in S3 at this track (Sochi) could be entirely down to it's weak front end. Seeing the onboards at Bahrain, it was clear Ric throws it in to the corners and the front end is very slow to respond. This is very surprising considering the front end response of Red Bulls of yore are the stuff of legends, that too at an aero regulation change such as this year. It somewhat reminds me of the team's struggles with the RB11.

I think the suspension trick ban has hurt them badly in the early races. I suspect they no longer can afford to run the rake/ride height they need, to make the car work over a lap, and thus are missing some peak downforce as a side effect. Turn 7 in the plot above was particularly telling where, Ricciardo had to really wait and manage the car before going full throttle while Bottas was just flying through with a much smaller lift. The car is a match for the Merc in the low speed stuff (turn 8 & 10), and braking performance is also good relative to the Merc...so all is not lost I think. Will follow with interest how the big updates in Barcelona take shape. This is a proper test of Newey's skills.