The Official 2017 Russian Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
housen said:
exactly its always the same
P2 will try and have a ago 5 laps before the end when there is enough fuel to do so then surprise there isn't enough laps to complete the battle
gay off fuel saving gayness s
t
but yeah great for that nap
Except the fuel saving wasn't (so much) an issue this this time due to the aborted start and safety car?P2 will try and have a ago 5 laps before the end when there is enough fuel to do so then surprise there isn't enough laps to complete the battle
gay off fuel saving gayness s
t but yeah great for that nap
The Moose said:
I don't know whether Hami had an issue, however I can safely say he wasn't on his usual form yesterday. That's what I mean by being in a straight fight. Let's see them go wheel to wheel (fingers crossed they'll be allowed to!) and then see what the outcome is.
Don't get me wrong, I'd give my left nut to be able to pedal a car as well as he can and sit in one of the top 2 cars in the field this year (hell - you can have both my nuts for that!), however I'm not quick to lump him in the same categories as other great drivers.
People seemed to think Verstappen was the second coming when he won the race last year in Spain. Again, I think he has it in him, but other than exciting overtaking, he's hardly setting the world on fire now is he.
These kind of thoughts are quite amusing.Don't get me wrong, I'd give my left nut to be able to pedal a car as well as he can and sit in one of the top 2 cars in the field this year (hell - you can have both my nuts for that!), however I'm not quick to lump him in the same categories as other great drivers.
People seemed to think Verstappen was the second coming when he won the race last year in Spain. Again, I think he has it in him, but other than exciting overtaking, he's hardly setting the world on fire now is he.
No matter if HAM & BOT are 1st, or 4th, or vice-versa, it is always the case that 90%, or more of the performance comes from the car, and only 10%, or less comes from the driver. DC has coined the notion that some weekends Lewis does not "turn up". I wonder how many times he feels he did not turn up on a given weekend.
Drivers display their celebrations and disappointments in many ways. How ALO keeps it together and physically turns up at the moment is pretty amazing, yet he continues to fight for track position with every fibre of his body. I believe that is also probably the case for every driver on the grid, every weekend.
In the report in Motorsport.com, Lewis said that from lap 5 onwards, he was no longer racing Kimi for the 3rd he was turning down engine modes to match the RB of Max. One cylinder was cutting out etc. During this time he did not miss one apex, or run off track, or have a spin etc, the car simply was not competetive against the top three, but it does need to perform again in Barcelonia.
Perhaps this faulty engine was due to the caning it received at the end of the race in Bahrain or perhaps it as due to the loose radiator that DC said he could see during the race. Whatever, Lewis brought the car home safely to claim 4th and retained his 2nd position in the WDC.
But surely, we do not expect him to be pleased with that. Though he did seem genuinely pleased that Valtery had won his first GP after 80-odd races trying. That achievement was only made possibly by him being in a better car.
janesmith1950 said:
I don't think Hamilton is getting on with this car as well as his previous ones, maybe it's thw tyres?
Unfortunately for him Ferrari are better equipped, with their Number 1 driver philosophy, to win such tight Championship battles.
On the evidence so far Vettel will walk it this year.
I think Mercedes reliability will swing the pendulum by the end of the season. Unfortunately for him Ferrari are better equipped, with their Number 1 driver philosophy, to win such tight Championship battles.
On the evidence so far Vettel will walk it this year.
The Moose said:
[...however I'm not quick to lump him in the same categories as other great drivers.
People seemed to think Verstappen was the second coming when he won the race last year in Spain. Again, I think he has it in him, but other than exciting overtaking, he's hardly setting the world on fire now is he.
I was with you until you mentioned Max People seemed to think Verstappen was the second coming when he won the race last year in Spain. Again, I think he has it in him, but other than exciting overtaking, he's hardly setting the world on fire now is he.
For me. Here's where I rate the current top 7.
The best drivers on the grid (both speed and ability to set cars up) The guys that win multiple titels
1st) Seb=Lewis=Fernando
The raw speed. but maybe a touch more inconsistent. SIngle titles
2nd) Kimi=Max
Good 2nd drivers
3rd) Ricciardo=Bottas=Hulkenberg (and although he's retired this is where I'd stick Coulthard) Will come 2nd or 3rd, but never win the title
And just for s
ts. Here's the guys that shouldn't even be on the grid.Palmer, Kyvat,
Gary C said:
Well, mlb is much improved, but still duff
And the Chris Hoy bit
Which Knob wrote the bit about his legs having more torque than a Ferrari.
legs don't have torque ! They may apply a force that is translated into a torque. fffs, please BBC, consult an engineer.
I think you want the Top Gear thread pal.And the Chris Hoy bit
Which Knob wrote the bit about his legs having more torque than a Ferrari.
legs don't have torque ! They may apply a force that is translated into a torque. fffs, please BBC, consult an engineer.
HustleRussell said:
Gary C said:
Well, mlb is much improved, but still duff
And the Chris Hoy bit
Which Knob wrote the bit about his legs having more torque than a Ferrari.
legs don't have torque ! They may apply a force that is translated into a torque. fffs, please BBC, consult an engineer.
I think you want the Top Gear thread pal.And the Chris Hoy bit
Which Knob wrote the bit about his legs having more torque than a Ferrari.
legs don't have torque ! They may apply a force that is translated into a torque. fffs, please BBC, consult an engineer.
Imagine if he accidentally cross posted from a more "specialist" website
"I thought the girl in the scene wasn't really into the action..."
Rich_W said:
HustleRussell said:
Gary C said:
Well, mlb is much improved, but still duff
And the Chris Hoy bit
Which Knob wrote the bit about his legs having more torque than a Ferrari.
legs don't have torque ! They may apply a force that is translated into a torque. fffs, please BBC, consult an engineer.
I think you want the Top Gear thread pal.And the Chris Hoy bit
Which Knob wrote the bit about his legs having more torque than a Ferrari.
legs don't have torque ! They may apply a force that is translated into a torque. fffs, please BBC, consult an engineer.
Imagine if he accidentally cross posted from a more "specialist" website
"I thought the girl in the scene wasn't really into the action..."
I had two windows open at the same time and clicked reply in the wrong one. Was just perusing the tg thread and wondered where it went !
F1 will always be boring until they
Remove half the aero so cars can follow and er like close up and overtake other cars in stunning late braking overtakes
Remove all the eco st from the engines and just make it er an engine thus reducing costs
Allow any tire from any manufacturer thus allowing differences in strategy on the grid
Re introduce pit lane fuelling to further increase complex strategy's and in race pace at different stages
Until such time you will have this total BORE fest where the best CAR (irrespective of driver, see Alonso for details and his opinions) and tire strategy wins.
Remove half the aero so cars can follow and er like close up and overtake other cars in stunning late braking overtakes
Remove all the eco s
t from the engines and just make it er an engine thus reducing costsAllow any tire from any manufacturer thus allowing differences in strategy on the grid
Re introduce pit lane fuelling to further increase complex strategy's and in race pace at different stages
Until such time you will have this total BORE fest where the best CAR (irrespective of driver, see Alonso for details and his opinions) and tire strategy wins.
Soul Reaver said:
F1 will always be boring until they
Remove half the aero so cars can follow and er like close up and overtake other cars in stunning late braking overtakes
Remove all the eco st from the engines and just make it er an engine thus reducing costs
Allow any tire from any manufacturer thus allowing differences in strategy on the grid
Re introduce pit lane fuelling to further increase complex strategy's and in race pace at different stages
Until such time you will have this total BORE fest where the best CAR (irrespective of driver, see Alonso for details and his opinions) and tire strategy wins.
Remove half the aero so cars can follow and er like close up and overtake other cars in stunning late braking overtakes
Remove all the eco s
t from the engines and just make it er an engine thus reducing costsAllow any tire from any manufacturer thus allowing differences in strategy on the grid
Re introduce pit lane fuelling to further increase complex strategy's and in race pace at different stages
Until such time you will have this total BORE fest where the best CAR (irrespective of driver, see Alonso for details and his opinions) and tire strategy wins.
Anything new or worthwhile to suggest?
I flag marshalled at Brands Hatch right through the 1990's, in all attending about 450 meetings. Lord knows how many individual races that added up to. I reckon about one in ten were interesting.
Face it, they go out to qualify and then get lined up on the grid in order of speed. All other things being equal that means that when the race starts, they simply all drive away from eachother.
I had plenty of time to think about why the few good races came about, and that comes down to mistakes. If the driver in front makes an error, then the speed differential is temporarily negated and there is an overtaking opportunity. In club racing, relatively few drivers are capable of going a single lap, let alone a whole race, without screwing up somewhere. So you get a lot of entertaining races at this level, thank goodness.
When you cream off the successful drivers and put them into a higher category, then you tend to get less mistakes. Repeat this process over the course of a few seasons and you end up getting senior categories, say F3 and upwards, that are very processional - tense, but with relatively little passing.
Sometimes there may be a change in weather conditions between qualifying and race, and that mixes things up. Or you can fool around with reverse grids, etc, but that invites demolition derbies like the BTCC, and I don't think F1 should go in that direction, for all sorts of reasons. When my sons were kart racing, grids were decided by entry date. That was interesting!
In the end, I think that if you want to see a race with loads of incident and passing, join the (small) crowds at club days down at your local circuit, but if you think you will get this kind of action at the top end of the sport you are fooling yourself. Be thankful for the occasional good race that comes along every now and then, and as for the other ones, just admire the scenery.
Face it, they go out to qualify and then get lined up on the grid in order of speed. All other things being equal that means that when the race starts, they simply all drive away from eachother.
I had plenty of time to think about why the few good races came about, and that comes down to mistakes. If the driver in front makes an error, then the speed differential is temporarily negated and there is an overtaking opportunity. In club racing, relatively few drivers are capable of going a single lap, let alone a whole race, without screwing up somewhere. So you get a lot of entertaining races at this level, thank goodness.
When you cream off the successful drivers and put them into a higher category, then you tend to get less mistakes. Repeat this process over the course of a few seasons and you end up getting senior categories, say F3 and upwards, that are very processional - tense, but with relatively little passing.
Sometimes there may be a change in weather conditions between qualifying and race, and that mixes things up. Or you can fool around with reverse grids, etc, but that invites demolition derbies like the BTCC, and I don't think F1 should go in that direction, for all sorts of reasons. When my sons were kart racing, grids were decided by entry date. That was interesting!
In the end, I think that if you want to see a race with loads of incident and passing, join the (small) crowds at club days down at your local circuit, but if you think you will get this kind of action at the top end of the sport you are fooling yourself. Be thankful for the occasional good race that comes along every now and then, and as for the other ones, just admire the scenery.
thegreenhell said:
So in order to get such racing in F1 they just need to bin off all the top drivers and fill the cars with 20 out-of-their-depth drivers. A grid of Maldonados and Palmers, perhaps?
Well, they do tend to make things happen, don't they? My point is that I think it is unrealistic to expect the kind of ding-dongs that you get in lower formulae at F1 level. There is too much talent, too much expertise, too few mistakes to allow that to happen. Just look what does occur when somebody (behind the wheel, or in the team) does get it wrong - they get punished big time.
I suppose we all remember the special moments in F1 over the years, and you can find plenty of videos on YouTube to remind you of them. The trouble is that human nature tends to make us forget the boring ones that filled out most of the season, even in the years of Clark, Senna, Mansell, etc.
I am as astonished as anyone that there wasn't a single on track pass in the Russian GP, and I wouldn't defend the position that this is good for the future of the sport. But there was still plenty to see. For one thing, some of those shots of the cars seemingly gluing themselves to the ground round the long turn 4, the suspensions almost bending with the stresses, were breath taking. It was like swinging a heavy weight on a weak bit of string round your head while standing in a greenhouse.
We all look for different things in F1. My all time favourite driver was Alain Prost. I suppose that speaks volumes about what I look for. Others may differ, and that's fine with me too.
Roofless Toothless said:
Well, they do tend to make things happen, don't they?
My point is that I think it is unrealistic to expect the kind of ding-dongs that you get in lower formulae at F1 level. There is too much talent, too much expertise, too few mistakes to allow that to happen. Just look what does occur when somebody (behind the wheel, or in the team) does get it wrong - they get punished big time.
I suppose we all remember the special moments in F1 over the years, and you can find plenty of videos on YouTube to remind you of them. The trouble is that human nature tends to make us forget the boring ones that filled out most of the season, even in the years of Clark, Senna, Mansell, etc.
I am as astonished as anyone that there wasn't a single on track pass in the Russian GP, and I wouldn't defend the position that this is good for the future of the sport. But there was still plenty to see. For one thing, some of those shots of the cars seemingly gluing themselves to the ground round the long turn 4, the suspensions almost bending with the stresses, were breath taking. It was like swinging a heavy weight on a weak bit of string round your head while standing in a greenhouse.
We all look for different things in F1. My all time favourite driver was Alain Prost. I suppose that speaks volumes about what I look for. Others may differ, and that's fine with me too.
If you get two evenly matched premiership rugby or football teams playing, it is often a game of of cat and mouse and one for the aficionados. I used to play badminton seriously and went to county matches. If you compared them to lower league matches, they were boring, but if you were familiar with the play and the players, they were fascinating. My point is that I think it is unrealistic to expect the kind of ding-dongs that you get in lower formulae at F1 level. There is too much talent, too much expertise, too few mistakes to allow that to happen. Just look what does occur when somebody (behind the wheel, or in the team) does get it wrong - they get punished big time.
I suppose we all remember the special moments in F1 over the years, and you can find plenty of videos on YouTube to remind you of them. The trouble is that human nature tends to make us forget the boring ones that filled out most of the season, even in the years of Clark, Senna, Mansell, etc.
I am as astonished as anyone that there wasn't a single on track pass in the Russian GP, and I wouldn't defend the position that this is good for the future of the sport. But there was still plenty to see. For one thing, some of those shots of the cars seemingly gluing themselves to the ground round the long turn 4, the suspensions almost bending with the stresses, were breath taking. It was like swinging a heavy weight on a weak bit of string round your head while standing in a greenhouse.
We all look for different things in F1. My all time favourite driver was Alain Prost. I suppose that speaks volumes about what I look for. Others may differ, and that's fine with me too.
To get the best out of F1, as in any other sport, you need to gen up on the drivers and teams. Autosport is required reading, or at least some of the F1 websites. If a team has some magic updates then that's adds to the excitement. Next race I'll be seeing how LH deals with his poor performance. I'm also waiting for a battle between the two RB drivers. There's something happening all down the grid.
The last race was dire in most respects, although the close laps were exciting. No season is filled with incident and adventure.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff