The Official 2017 Russian Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
Just for the record, I am very happy to watch a full race, providing there is an element like VET v BOT last Sunday where the guy is at least putting pressure on the guy in front trying to force an error. If the pressure is soaked up, it makes for a good race.
While that sort of thing might be going on throughout the field, the simple truth is that 80% of the teams are uncompetitive compared to the front two. They may be within 7%, or probably 3%, of qually time, but over a 90min race half the field is being lapped. We rely on rain a safety cars to spice-up the show.
I am certain Eric will remind us that it has always been like that, and I am certain that the 100+ enthusiasts on this thread can live with it. But for a global sport,at the forefront of entertainment, it is simply no longer good enough.
I guess it needs to be about 50/50 drivers/cars. We all talk about the drivers, but the reality is it is all about the performance of the cars. Endurance racing is a far better medium for that. Even Indy will look better - if we have an ALO to follow.
While that sort of thing might be going on throughout the field, the simple truth is that 80% of the teams are uncompetitive compared to the front two. They may be within 7%, or probably 3%, of qually time, but over a 90min race half the field is being lapped. We rely on rain a safety cars to spice-up the show.
I am certain Eric will remind us that it has always been like that, and I am certain that the 100+ enthusiasts on this thread can live with it. But for a global sport,at the forefront of entertainment, it is simply no longer good enough.
I guess it needs to be about 50/50 drivers/cars. We all talk about the drivers, but the reality is it is all about the performance of the cars. Endurance racing is a far better medium for that. Even Indy will look better - if we have an ALO to follow.
Actually, I am pretty surprised at the amount of lapping that goes on in F1. Another thing I used to notice while flag marshalling races at different levels is that the higher up the ladder you go, less cars seem to get lapped. In club racing there always seems to be some hapless beginner getting swallowed up by the leaders on about lap four, not so much at the top of the tree. The old Formula Ford festivals were a good example. In the heats I would be leaning out of the post blue flagging like stink all the time. But by the semifinals and final it was possible to furl up the flag and just stand there like a gentleman watching the race from a very privileged trackside position! The whole field would just go round in a train. And this was on the Indy circuit at Brands, mind you, just about a mile long.
F3 races on the GP circuit were ones to watch out for. It was so easy to go to sleep when blue flagging, as there was so little chance of a normal 'lapping' ever occurring, only to get rudely awoken when a car exits the pits right in front of the leaders. I was normally at post eight, with a view of the pit exit lane, and believe me I used to keep an eye on it.
I agree we need a balance of interest between drivers and cars. For me, the technical side adds a layer of interest that other sports generally lack. I mean, you don't get exited about Ronaldo's new football boot design, do you? But a new concept in motor racing car technology can be fascinating. But this is the trouble - the cars look really exciting, colourful, sexy, and even beautiful aesthetically, and the drivers, well, you either love 'em or hate 'em don't you? Plenty to talk about there. But what have they let it all come down to? The bloody tyres - the most boring looking bit of the whole thing. Round black rubber circles. Impossible to see the difference between one and the other, so much so that they even have to paint the sidewalls different colours to give the spectator a clue as to what is going on. Races are so often tyre management dictated, and we are blind as to what is actually happening. Why let the most boring element in the equation be the controlling factor?
I agree some tracks are better than others, aerodynamics are problematical, etc., but let's get tyres out of the equation for starters.
F3 races on the GP circuit were ones to watch out for. It was so easy to go to sleep when blue flagging, as there was so little chance of a normal 'lapping' ever occurring, only to get rudely awoken when a car exits the pits right in front of the leaders. I was normally at post eight, with a view of the pit exit lane, and believe me I used to keep an eye on it.
I agree we need a balance of interest between drivers and cars. For me, the technical side adds a layer of interest that other sports generally lack. I mean, you don't get exited about Ronaldo's new football boot design, do you? But a new concept in motor racing car technology can be fascinating. But this is the trouble - the cars look really exciting, colourful, sexy, and even beautiful aesthetically, and the drivers, well, you either love 'em or hate 'em don't you? Plenty to talk about there. But what have they let it all come down to? The bloody tyres - the most boring looking bit of the whole thing. Round black rubber circles. Impossible to see the difference between one and the other, so much so that they even have to paint the sidewalls different colours to give the spectator a clue as to what is going on. Races are so often tyre management dictated, and we are blind as to what is actually happening. Why let the most boring element in the equation be the controlling factor?
I agree some tracks are better than others, aerodynamics are problematical, etc., but let's get tyres out of the equation for starters.
Roofless Toothless said:
I had plenty of time to think about why the few good races came about, and that comes down to mistakes. If the driver in front makes an error, then the speed differential is temporarily negated and there is an overtaking opportunity. In club racing, relatively few drivers are capable of going a single lap, let alone a whole race, without screwing up somewhere. So you get a lot of entertaining races at this level, thank goodness.
One of the best races I've enjoyed watching live was at Ingleston near Edinburgh around 1970 when the guy in the lead spun off and the rest of the field went past him while he recovered back to the track. He went from dead last fighting all the way to on the last lap he went over the finish line side by side with the eventual winner, we had to wait for a photo of the cars to see who had won, it was that close. Now I cannot remember who the driver was but his yellow car threading it's way through the traffic was magical to watch and at the end he got a standing ovation from all of the crowd
Alicatt1 said:
One of the best races I've enjoyed watching live was at Ingleston near Edinburgh around 1970 when the guy in the lead spun off and the rest of the field went past him while he recovered back to the track. He went from dead last fighting all the way to on the last lap he went over the finish line side by side with the eventual winner, we had to wait for a photo of the cars to see who had won, it was that close.
Now I cannot remember who the driver was but his yellow car threading it's way through the traffic was magical to watch and at the end he got a standing ovation from all of the crowd
Didn't Hamilton do similar in a junior formula?Now I cannot remember who the driver was but his yellow car threading it's way through the traffic was magical to watch and at the end he got a standing ovation from all of the crowd
Alicatt1 said:
One of the best races I've enjoyed watching live was at Ingleston near Edinburgh around 1970 when the guy in the lead spun off and the rest of the field went past him while he recovered back to the track. He went from dead last fighting all the way to on the last lap he went over the finish line side by side with the eventual winner, we had to wait for a photo of the cars to see who had won, it was that close.
Now I cannot remember who the driver was but his yellow car threading it's way through the traffic was magical to watch and at the end he got a standing ovation from all of the crowd
That's hat spectators want to see.Now I cannot remember who the driver was but his yellow car threading it's way through the traffic was magical to watch and at the end he got a standing ovation from all of the crowd
F4 at Thruxton today: a driver charging early on spun, with a little help. He got back on the circuit and came fourth. The crowd in that stand where he was cheered him on with every overtake.
It always amuses me when people talk about wanting "wheel to wheel action" in F1. If wheel met wheel in F1, half the suspension would come off and that would be that. The cars aren't built to tussle, so it is in every driver's best interests not to do anything that would risk any contact.
It is a strange sport really because the cars can be thrown around circuits at ridiculous speeds, by extremely confident and fearless drivers, but as soon as two cars are in close proximity any kind of aggressive, steal-that-place driving is likely to result in 1 or 2 DNFs.
How do you resolve that without arbitrary, artificial "safe racing" solutions like DRS overtakes?
It is a strange sport really because the cars can be thrown around circuits at ridiculous speeds, by extremely confident and fearless drivers, but as soon as two cars are in close proximity any kind of aggressive, steal-that-place driving is likely to result in 1 or 2 DNFs.
How do you resolve that without arbitrary, artificial "safe racing" solutions like DRS overtakes?
Durzel said:
It always amuses me when people talk about wanting "wheel to wheel action" in F1. If wheel met wheel in F1, half the suspension would come off and that would be that. The cars aren't built to tussle, so it is in every driver's best interests not to do anything that would risk any contact.
It is a strange sport really because the cars can be thrown around circuits at ridiculous speeds, by extremely confident and fearless drivers, but as soon as two cars are in close proximity any kind of aggressive, steal-that-place driving is likely to result in 1 or 2 DNFs.
How do you resolve that without arbitrary, artificial "safe racing" solutions like DRS overtakes?
"Wheel to wheel stuff":It is a strange sport really because the cars can be thrown around circuits at ridiculous speeds, by extremely confident and fearless drivers, but as soon as two cars are in close proximity any kind of aggressive, steal-that-place driving is likely to result in 1 or 2 DNFs.
How do you resolve that without arbitrary, artificial "safe racing" solutions like DRS overtakes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwgLg8vRMQU
Both finished the race, Mansell winning.
I record it. I sit down to watch it in vain hopes and I get bored. How the commentators keep going I have no idea. I'm like a drug addict looking for a nirvana that was only experienced once on my first fix, never to return.
I can tell you that I do prefer to watch Ginetta Juniors and BTCC much more than I do F1..
How you solve that little issue of it actually being boring I'm not sure. Maybe you can't and it's just boring and that's it and I should just accept it for what it is..
I can tell you that I do prefer to watch Ginetta Juniors and BTCC much more than I do F1..
How you solve that little issue of it actually being boring I'm not sure. Maybe you can't and it's just boring and that's it and I should just accept it for what it is..
It did seem like a bit of a stalemate in the Russian Grand Prix based on the start and pitstops.
F1 since I started watching in the 1980s does have some races with not a lot of overtaking, it is not rallycross, but a spark of inspiration from a driver is great to watch, e.g. Senna or Verstappen pushing the limits, Alonso was the most animated but just in frustration with not having the opportunity.
F1 since I started watching in the 1980s does have some races with not a lot of overtaking, it is not rallycross, but a spark of inspiration from a driver is great to watch, e.g. Senna or Verstappen pushing the limits, Alonso was the most animated but just in frustration with not having the opportunity.
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