The Official 2017 Spanish Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
HustleRussell said:
Leroy902 said:
I think it's becoming pretty clear now ferrari have a better all round car than the Merc. Let us not forget that if Vettel goes on to win the title, and everyone comes on to claim the Mercs (Lewis) lost this year's drivers championship with the best car.
Not possible to call IMO, especially since the pre-Catalunya upgrades. The Mercedes is more reliable and will likely be better in the wet.
They both appear to have their strengths and weaknesses, mostly relating to how they treat different tyre compounds in different temperature ranges. I certainly don't think it's clear yet that either car is "better" overall. thegreenhell said:
They had to 2-stop using soft and medium. Do you think that using the super-soft would have allowed them to 1-stop?
Dr Z showed us on Friday the big advantage Mercedes had over Ferrari on the Soft tyres. This was Mercedes'' race to lose, given the 1.5s step between Soft and Medium compounds. It was probable desireable to have HAM and BOT follow VET and RAI so they could react if Ferrari did a 3-stop. But as soon as VET was on Mediums and HAM on Softs for a long final sting, I think VET was dead-meat.We will never know if a Super Soft, Medium would have been a sensible strategy or if Super-Soft, Soft, Soft was quicker. What we do know is that teams tend to avoid pit stop if at all possible - in free air, a 3-stop was the quickest strategy yesterday.
IIRC during the Bridgestone era, tyres were separated by two compounds between Prime and Option. Now that the tyres are durable, Pirelli taking 3-compounds to every race is wasted effort and tends to lead towards 1-stop races.
Getting the compounds wrong on Suday is what gave us a great race.
Leroy902 said:
I think it's becoming pretty clear now ferrari have a better all round car than the Merc. Let us not forget that if Vettel goes on to win the title, and everyone comes on to claim the Mercs (Lewis) lost this year's drivers championship with the best car.
It is clear the Mercedes is still the fastest car in a straight line.Bottas was on worn tyres and it still took Vettel to make a dummy move to be able to pass him.
Lewis just drove past Vettel like Vettel was in a McLaren.
kambites said:
HustleRussell said:
Leroy902 said:
I think it's becoming pretty clear now ferrari have a better all round car than the Merc. Let us not forget that if Vettel goes on to win the title, and everyone comes on to claim the Mercs (Lewis) lost this year's drivers championship with the best car.
Not possible to call IMO, especially since the pre-Catalunya upgrades. The Mercedes is more reliable and will likely be better in the wet. They both appear to have their strengths and weaknesses, mostly relating to how they treat different tyre compounds in different temperature ranges. I certainly don't think it's clear yet that either car is "better" overall. I'm going to ring the FIA and tell them about my brilliant idea
ELUSIVEJIM said:
HustleRussell said:
Closest they've been to the Mercedes and Ferrari on pace all season?
1:15.820 behind the winner??Hmm....
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Did you miss the part then were 1:15.820 behind 1st 
Do you think that gap accurately represents the performance gap between the Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull? I'll give you a clue. With no pressure from behind and no chance of competing with Hamilton and Vettel, they turned the engine down and cruised to the easiest podium of the season.
I watched on replay last night as I was out at the Silverstone Blancpain meeting.
Merc sharp as a tack with the strategy, I've been mildly critical of them in the past, but they were smart to use Bottas's poor pace to their advantage, the stop under VSC was a bit of luck but again well planned to prevent Ferrari copying.
Lewis for his part drove perfectly, a bit surprised to hear him working hard for it - I wonder if he'll step up training for Singapore ?
Vettel really didn't do anything wrong. Car looks strong, good on its tyres. Impressive all round. I do think they got bluffed in to stopping early and weren't as reactive to the events as they unfolded.
Where the hell was Massa ? ok, he got a puncture but he just went nowhere and stayed at the back with Palmer ? very strange.
Talking of Palmer, he just doesn't cut it. I don't think Renault have anything to lose by looking elsewhere for the rest of the season.
Stroll needs to go back to WSR, GP3, F2. I don't think he's completely useless but he's not up to scratch yet. I think he's just lacking driving skills.
Sainz I'm a bit concerned about, he's getting hot under the collar - few antsy quotes to the press, trying to overtake on the grass, the odd sharp radio call and so on. If he wants to move up the grid he needs to keep the "positive head" on and think before he acts.
Haas - didn't hear much about brake problems or the rears locking on downshifts, have they solved the problems ? I hope so or Monaco is going to be hard work.
Wehrlein - probably his best race ever I think ? After the odd injury thing earlier this year and not really standing out last year maybe we're starting to see why Merc have retained him ? I'd like to see more from him.
Ocon continues to impress, Perez too. Both must be on Williams radar for next year ? Maybe Renault too ?
McLaren ? Alonso's P7 was a fantastic effort, but even ignoring his T1 excursion they only went backwards in the race. What happened to Vandoorne ? there must have been some issue there ? I get the feeling Zak Brown is more interested in generating PR around Alonso's Indy drive than he is fixing the team, I never get the impression he's particularly bothered by their situation.
With my cynical head on, I wonder if LM were behind the little Ferrari fan getting to meet Kimi and ushered around the pits? Its a great talking point, people at work were talking about it today.. That kid will always be remembered. Would have been quite easy for LM to have someone go out, find him, bring him in to the paddock to meet Kimi etc and make sure the cameras were there and so on.
Nothing wrong in it, just seems to be the sort of thing they have been talking about.
Merc sharp as a tack with the strategy, I've been mildly critical of them in the past, but they were smart to use Bottas's poor pace to their advantage, the stop under VSC was a bit of luck but again well planned to prevent Ferrari copying.
Lewis for his part drove perfectly, a bit surprised to hear him working hard for it - I wonder if he'll step up training for Singapore ?
Vettel really didn't do anything wrong. Car looks strong, good on its tyres. Impressive all round. I do think they got bluffed in to stopping early and weren't as reactive to the events as they unfolded.
Where the hell was Massa ? ok, he got a puncture but he just went nowhere and stayed at the back with Palmer ? very strange.
Talking of Palmer, he just doesn't cut it. I don't think Renault have anything to lose by looking elsewhere for the rest of the season.
Stroll needs to go back to WSR, GP3, F2. I don't think he's completely useless but he's not up to scratch yet. I think he's just lacking driving skills.
Sainz I'm a bit concerned about, he's getting hot under the collar - few antsy quotes to the press, trying to overtake on the grass, the odd sharp radio call and so on. If he wants to move up the grid he needs to keep the "positive head" on and think before he acts.
Haas - didn't hear much about brake problems or the rears locking on downshifts, have they solved the problems ? I hope so or Monaco is going to be hard work.
Wehrlein - probably his best race ever I think ? After the odd injury thing earlier this year and not really standing out last year maybe we're starting to see why Merc have retained him ? I'd like to see more from him.
Ocon continues to impress, Perez too. Both must be on Williams radar for next year ? Maybe Renault too ?
McLaren ? Alonso's P7 was a fantastic effort, but even ignoring his T1 excursion they only went backwards in the race. What happened to Vandoorne ? there must have been some issue there ? I get the feeling Zak Brown is more interested in generating PR around Alonso's Indy drive than he is fixing the team, I never get the impression he's particularly bothered by their situation.
With my cynical head on, I wonder if LM were behind the little Ferrari fan getting to meet Kimi and ushered around the pits? Its a great talking point, people at work were talking about it today.. That kid will always be remembered. Would have been quite easy for LM to have someone go out, find him, bring him in to the paddock to meet Kimi etc and make sure the cameras were there and so on.
Nothing wrong in it, just seems to be the sort of thing they have been talking about.
What do you expect Zak to do? He cant design a new engine.
The car looks good, Alonso is driving very well, the team seem to be working extremely hard.
From what I have seen of Zak, he is a good guy and once things pick up on the powertrain front, be that with Honda or not, he has the potential to get McLaren back on a strong footing. He is no mug, a very successful guy with his previous ventures.
The car looks good, Alonso is driving very well, the team seem to be working extremely hard.
From what I have seen of Zak, he is a good guy and once things pick up on the powertrain front, be that with Honda or not, he has the potential to get McLaren back on a strong footing. He is no mug, a very successful guy with his previous ventures.
For all Toto wolf's skirting around the issue how long before he realises and admits they've got to concentrate their efforts on Lewis from now, Ferrari pretty much are all for vettel so Merc can do without bottas taking points off Lewis every other race or so, think deep down bottas knows it's inevitable
Don't think they are there yet. Bottas outscored Hamilton once in Russia. Hamilton was nowhere all weekend and Bottas got the win, which Mercedes-Benz will be happy with for the constructors champ and Hamilton will be happy as it kept Vettel off the top step. At the moment I think Toto is right and a natural order will develop. For this season anyway.
Didn't Toto say after the race that any need or plan to back a number one driver would "emerge naturally" before saying that Lewis and Seb were now quite a good margin ahead of the competition (ie. its already emerged naturally). He doesn't want to make it a hard and fixed team policy, but the situation dictates that they have to focus on one now.
But, if Bottas has a great next 2 or 3 rounds, it could of course change very quickly.
But, if Bottas has a great next 2 or 3 rounds, it could of course change very quickly.
Hungrymc said:
Didn't Toto say after the race that any need or plan to back a number one driver would "emerge naturally" before saying that Lewis and Seb were now quite a good margin ahead of the competition (ie. its already emerged naturally). He doesn't want to make it a hard and fixed team policy, but the situation dictates that they have to focus on one now.
But, if Bottas has a great next 2 or 3 rounds, it could of course change very quickly.
My first thought when I saw Bottas backing off into the first corner was that he was under instructions. My personal opinion is that it is a done deal and the only thing open for discussion is the extent of the directions.But, if Bottas has a great next 2 or 3 rounds, it could of course change very quickly.
Derek Smith said:
My first thought when I saw Bottas backing off into the first corner was that he was under instructions. My personal opinion is that it is a done deal and the only thing open for discussion is the extent of the directions.
I think you're right. But Merc don't want to admit it quite yet.The only thing that could reverse it would be Bottas having a very strong next few races and putting a Ferrari or two between himself and Lewis. If he qualifies well, and takes points of Seb he could find himself back in the hunt. It only takes a DNF or two for Lewis and Bottas is in the lead position... That would get tricky for Merc.Edited by Hungrymc on Tuesday 16th May 12:24
Hungrymc said:
I think you're right. But Merc don't want to admit it quite yet.The only thing that could reverse it would be Bottas having a very strong next few races and putting a Ferrari or two between himself and Lewis. If he qualifies well, and takes points of Seb he could find himself back in the hunt. It only takes a DNF or two for Lewis and Bottas is in the lead position... That would get tricky for Merc.
I dunno, be a pretty fundamental policy shift for them wouldnt it?Edited by Hungrymc on Tuesday 16th May 12:24
I'm not a fan of 1-2 driver teams but it'd annoy me if vettel nicked it by dint of being lead driver while merc lose it for hamilton pulling the same kind of take-your-turn nonsense that generally seemed to benefit rosberg while sabotaging strategies for hamilton
Crafty_ said:
With my cynical head on, I wonder if LM were behind the little Ferrari fan getting to meet Kimi and ushered around the pits? Its a great talking point, people at work were talking about it today.. That kid will always be remembered. Would have been quite easy for LM to have someone go out, find him, bring him in to the paddock to meet Kimi etc and make sure the cameras were there and so on.
Nothing wrong in it, just seems to be the sort of thing they have been talking about.
It was actually confirmed that LM had nothing to do with it and Scuderia Ferrari were the ones who sent out someone to find the boy and family and bring him to the paddock and to meet KimiNothing wrong in it, just seems to be the sort of thing they have been talking about.
Well played by Ferrari
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