The Official 2017 Spanish Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
thegreenhell said:
Yes, when Ted interviewed the family in Franglais afterwards they confirmed that it was a Ferrari rep that came and found them.
Sky were reporting that an FOM person had spotted it and arranged for them to be brought to the paddock. Whatever, it was a great gesture.rubystone said:
thegreenhell said:
Yes, when Ted interviewed the family in Franglais afterwards they confirmed that it was a Ferrari rep that came and found them.
Sky were reporting that an FOM person had spotted it and arranged for them to be brought to the paddock. Whatever, it was a great gesture.Derek Smith said:
thegreenhell said:
Yes, when Ted interviewed the family in Franglais afterwards they confirmed that it was a Ferrari rep that came and found them.
Just think how packed the McLaren pits would be, and all season long, if they did the same for their crying fans.fixed that for you.
FOM would surely of been involved, you'd have to know which camera it was and which grandstand it just filmed, Ferrari would not know either! They may however been the ones who asked for this info and sent reps to said grandstand with passes, either way good job all round!
Maybe it could be an idea going forward for LM, camera man picks someone/family at random wearing team gear and said team or LM/FOM go fetch and plonk them in the teams hospitality, it costs nothing but makes someone's weekend
Maybe it could be an idea going forward for LM, camera man picks someone/family at random wearing team gear and said team or LM/FOM go fetch and plonk them in the teams hospitality, it costs nothing but makes someone's weekend
HustleRussell said:
Leroy902 said:
I think it's becoming pretty clear now ferrari have a better all round car than the Merc. Let us not forget that if Vettel goes on to win the title, and everyone comes on to claim the Mercs (Lewis) lost this year's drivers championship with the best car.
Not possible to call IMO, especially since the pre-Catalunya upgrades. The Mercedes is more reliable and will likely be better in the wet.Also bear in mind that LH never suffered severe deg in the last stint on the softer tyre in warm race; Merc's B-spec car including weight saving as it was overweight and contributing to tyre deg.
entropy said:
HustleRussell said:
Leroy902 said:
I think it's becoming pretty clear now ferrari have a better all round car than the Merc. Let us not forget that if Vettel goes on to win the title, and everyone comes on to claim the Mercs (Lewis) lost this year's drivers championship with the best car.
Not possible to call IMO, especially since the pre-Catalunya upgrades. The Mercedes is more reliable and will likely be better in the wet.Also bear in mind that LH never suffered severe deg in the last stint on the softer tyre in warm race; Merc's B-spec car including weight saving as it was overweight and contributing to tyre deg.
In a way, the VSC helped make the Merc strategist's job easier. I think Merc had the option of getting Hamilton to go to the end on the Medium tyres, if Vettel had pitted during the VSC. Obviously, the other option was for them to pit and go on the faster tyre to do an undercut/overtake on track which played out in the race. Ferrari were in a tough position either way, IMO. I'd put Bottas' rear-gunner work to be the period that helped turn the race in Merc's favour, as it would have been an easier decision for Ferrari to pit Vettel during VSC with a 12 s gap vs 8 s gap (Bottas cost Vettel ~4 s). Was screaming for them to pit Vettel during VSC anyway!
Very interesting race. Annoyed that VSC screwed McLaren who'd just pitted Alonso. The McLaren was quicker than Renault/Toro Rosso/Haas/Sauber, who all finished in the points. Very encouraging race pace from McLaren even with some fuel saving thrown in.
jsf said:
What do you expect Zak to do? He cant design a new engine.
The car looks good, Alonso is driving very well, the team seem to be working extremely hard.
From what I have seen of Zak, he is a good guy and once things pick up on the powertrain front, be that with Honda or not, he has the potential to get McLaren back on a strong footing. He is no mug, a very successful guy with his previous ventures.
He could at least sound a bit bothered by it... every interview I see he just shrugs it off.The car looks good, Alonso is driving very well, the team seem to be working extremely hard.
From what I have seen of Zak, he is a good guy and once things pick up on the powertrain front, be that with Honda or not, he has the potential to get McLaren back on a strong footing. He is no mug, a very successful guy with his previous ventures.
I've no doubt that Zak is great at PR, which is his profession. Just not sure I see McLaren going anywhere.
Even if the engine was matching the Merc I don't think they are going to be up front with Ferrari and Merc.
thegreenhell said:
rubystone said:
thegreenhell said:
Yes, when Ted interviewed the family in Franglais afterwards they confirmed that it was a Ferrari rep that came and found them.
Sky were reporting that an FOM person had spotted it and arranged for them to be brought to the paddock. Whatever, it was a great gesture.Dr Z said:
Agreed. The cars seem to have different strengths/weaknesses but the Merc looked to be the better all round car this race. I think they have sorted the tyre deg issues as well. If anything, Vettel had some deg kicking in, in the 1st stint which forced Ferrari to be proactive in preventing an undercut.
In a way, the VSC helped make the Merc strategist's job easier. I think Merc had the option of getting Hamilton to go to the end on the Medium tyres, if Vettel had pitted during the VSC. Obviously, the other option was for them to pit and go on the faster tyre to do an undercut/overtake on track which played out in the race. Ferrari were in a tough position either way, IMO. I'd put Bottas' rear-gunner work to be the period that helped turn the race in Merc's favour, as it would have been an easier decision for Ferrari to pit Vettel during VSC with a 12 s gap vs 8 s gap (Bottas cost Vettel ~4 s). Was screaming for them to pit Vettel during VSC anyway!
Very interesting race. Annoyed that VSC screwed McLaren who'd just pitted Alonso. The McLaren was quicker than Renault/Toro Rosso/Haas/Sauber, who all finished in the points. Very encouraging race pace from McLaren even with some fuel saving thrown in.
I left the weekend thinking the Ferrari was the very marginally better race car. Merc played the VSC strategy brilliantly (after me criticising that they always seem poor in that area - they were lucky, extending the run was a brave / risky decision as no VSC would have left them way behind Ferrari or gambling on a one stop) and Bottas slowing Vettel was also pretty key to bringing Lewis back into play. On that basis, Merc won on strategy and by having a car that was quicker in sector 3 to effect the on-track overtake. which is a shock in itself, we'd expect the merc to be fast on the straight, but not through the chicane and through the last corner.In a way, the VSC helped make the Merc strategist's job easier. I think Merc had the option of getting Hamilton to go to the end on the Medium tyres, if Vettel had pitted during the VSC. Obviously, the other option was for them to pit and go on the faster tyre to do an undercut/overtake on track which played out in the race. Ferrari were in a tough position either way, IMO. I'd put Bottas' rear-gunner work to be the period that helped turn the race in Merc's favour, as it would have been an easier decision for Ferrari to pit Vettel during VSC with a 12 s gap vs 8 s gap (Bottas cost Vettel ~4 s). Was screaming for them to pit Vettel during VSC anyway!
Very interesting race. Annoyed that VSC screwed McLaren who'd just pitted Alonso. The McLaren was quicker than Renault/Toro Rosso/Haas/Sauber, who all finished in the points. Very encouraging race pace from McLaren even with some fuel saving thrown in.
Certainly, Lewis couldn't live with Seb when the Merc was on Mediums and the Ferrari Softs, and Seb managed to stay closer to Lewis when the tyres were reversed (though Lewis had to make sure he didn't ask too much of the softs). Even looking at the fastest laps, I think Seb was about 0.1 off Lewis's fastest lap (Lewis on worn soft but low fuel, Seb on fresh Medium tyres and medium fuel).
All the evidence suggest to me that they're very close with a very small advantage to Ferrari on this circuit. And it was only a few smart strategic decisions from Merc (and poor luck for Ferrari) that made the difference.
The only thing I know for sure is that it was great watching Seb and Lewis race so hard and pressure each other so much.
Hungrymc said:
I left the weekend thinking the Ferrari was the very marginally better race car. Merc played the VSC strategy brilliantly (after me criticising that they always seem poor in that area - they were lucky, extending the run was a brave / risky decision as no VSC would have left them way behind Ferrari or gambling on a one stop) and Bottas slowing Vettel was also pretty key to bringing Lewis back into play. On that basis, Merc won on strategy and by having a car that was quicker in sector 3 to effect the on-track overtake. which is a shock in itself, we'd expect the merc to be fast on the straight, but not through the chicane and through the last corner.
Certainly, Lewis couldn't live with Seb when the Merc was on Mediums and the Ferrari Softs, and Seb managed to stay closer to Lewis when the tyres were reversed (though Lewis had to make sure he didn't ask too much of the softs). Even looking at the fastest laps, I think Seb was about 0.1 off Lewis's fastest lap (Lewis on worn soft but low fuel, Seb on fresh Medium tyres and medium fuel).
All the evidence suggest to me that they're very close with a very small advantage to Ferrari on this circuit. And it was only a few smart strategic decisions from Merc (and poor luck for Ferrari) that made the difference.
The only thing I know for sure is that it was great watching Seb and Lewis race so hard and pressure each other so much.
Agree on a lot of the points you make. If the VSC hadn't happened, Ferrari were looking more comfortable. The Ferrari wasn't as quick as the Merc in sector 3, so I figured before the race, if Vettel took the lead, we could have the two lead protagonists come wheel-to-wheel at some point and have a more interesting race than if Hamilton had taken the lead. I think he'd have been able to keep out of reach of the Ferrari if he was leading. I read somewhere that Vettel was also running on an old engine that had done a few GPs as the new one developed problems. I think that also played a part in him unable to defend better when Hamilton came past.Certainly, Lewis couldn't live with Seb when the Merc was on Mediums and the Ferrari Softs, and Seb managed to stay closer to Lewis when the tyres were reversed (though Lewis had to make sure he didn't ask too much of the softs). Even looking at the fastest laps, I think Seb was about 0.1 off Lewis's fastest lap (Lewis on worn soft but low fuel, Seb on fresh Medium tyres and medium fuel).
All the evidence suggest to me that they're very close with a very small advantage to Ferrari on this circuit. And it was only a few smart strategic decisions from Merc (and poor luck for Ferrari) that made the difference.
The only thing I know for sure is that it was great watching Seb and Lewis race so hard and pressure each other so much.
Merc cars have always been quick in Sector 3 regardless of the regs and I would maybe go so far as to suggest it's a Brackley trait than a 'Merc' trait as it also goes back to the Brawn days.
Does anyone like the new stewarding that doesn't penalise too much and allow the drivers to sort it out themselves? Whilst some of these moves are too aggressive for my tastes, it's allowing us to see who the real hard nosed racers are, who gives respect and who doesn't in a wheel-to-wheel situation. Also by now the drivers should know that moaning on the radio doesn't get them anywhere with getting the other guy a penalty, a welcome change. Didn't seem to stop the whining though.
Story of the race for me;
Massa and Stroll were on identical Soft/Soft/Medium tyre strategies, except Stroll was running on new tyres at all stints. After the first lap contact with Alonso, Massa pits and rejoins some 50 seconds behind Stroll, and promptly makes up a pitstop worth of time in the next ten laps (excluding the in-lap for Stroll, works out to ~1.9s/lap). OK, Stroll was bottled up behind Wehrlein, but a ~2 second delta should be more than enough to overtake, as other cars showed.
Williams pit Stroll to do an undercut on Wehrlein. Now Stroll is in clear air for another 6/7 laps when he comes up on Alonso. Massa, 28 seconds behind gets pitted the lap after Stroll and excluding in/out laps for both, Massa makes up 9.5 seconds on Stroll in the next 9 laps. Averaging ~1 second /lap. Meanwhile, Stroll gets overtaken by Ericsson in the Sauber, who goes on to overtake Alonso ahead.
Ok Softer tyre, bit difficult to control etc. They both get put on the Medium tyre for the final stint at the same time, taking advantage of the VSC. Massa likely carries some damage, maybe even from his prang with Alonso in Lap 1 & Vandoorne causing VSC. In the next 15 laps, Massa continues to average half a second per lap faster and comes right on Stroll's tail by lap 54...VSC didn't help Ericsson who ends up behind Stroll on Mediums but overtakes Stroll again. And Massa finishes ahead of Stroll. I don't know if he passed Stroll or Stroll was told to let Massa by. It happened after he was getting lapped.. . Incidentally, the VSC also messed up Alonso who ended up behind both the Williams cars and overtook them on the faster tyre...I shouldn't laugh but...
Meanwhile, Force India have got two cars into the points and have now scored more than double the points of Williams. My, my what have Williams let themselves into. Forget McLaren, this is the sad story right here. When you've got the 4th fastest car and faster cars drop out of the race, yet you finish 13th and 15th.
Edited by Dr Z on Wednesday 17th May 14:05
Agreeing with Dr Z. Stroll is over-promoted. He may be good enough some day (although I'm not sure) but he's getting crushed by a man who couldn't get a drive.
Palmer also being crushed by Hulk. Also not good enough for a works team.
Vandoorne hasn't looked the prt yet either, but he's not (IMO) off the scale. It won't look good if he gets beaten by Button though.
Palmer also being crushed by Hulk. Also not good enough for a works team.
Vandoorne hasn't looked the prt yet either, but he's not (IMO) off the scale. It won't look good if he gets beaten by Button though.
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