Kubica back in an F1 car

[MissChief]

Dr Z said:

Norfolkit said:

Might be more accurate to say "former pole position and race winner", he hasn't been doing much of either recently. Last pole Austria 2014, last win (surprisingly, surprised me anyway) was the "is that Glock going slowly, it's Glock" Brazilian race of 2008.

How about 2010 German GP? Truly deserved to win that one.

'Fernando is faster than you, do you understand?'

'Sorry'

At that point Massa should have decided to leave Ferrari at the end of the season. He was shown then that he'd never be granted another chance at the championship. They were both pulling away from Vettel in third and it was quite early in the season.

[Norfolkit]

MissChief said:

Dr Z said:

Norfolkit said:

Might be more accurate to say "former pole position and race winner", he hasn't been doing much of either recently. Last pole Austria 2014, last win (surprisingly, surprised me anyway) was the "is that Glock going slowly, it's Glock" Brazilian race of 2008.

How about 2010 German GP? Truly deserved to win that one.

'Fernando is faster than you, do you understand?'

'Sorry'

At that point Massa should have decided to leave Ferrari at the end of the season. He was shown then that he'd never be granted another chance at the championship. They were both pulling away from Vettel in third and it was quite early in the season.[i]

I agree with your first two points but not (necessarily) the second, it's a moot point at best. Massa had a decent start to the season but had tailed off badly in the previous three races (15th, 11th, 15th) and trailed Alonso by 27 points.

After Germany Alonso outscored Massa by 132 points to 77 (1 DNF each).
Alonso won more races than any one else that year. Had they not swapped them in Germany Alonso would have still won 4 races to Massa's 1, with the swap it wa 5 - 0.

I don't like team orders but I would say Ferrari were correct in throwing their weight behind Alonso if they wanted to win the drivers title.

Edited by Norfolkit on Friday 3rd November 00:11

[MissChief]

Norfolkit said:

MissChief said:

Dr Z said:

Norfolkit said:

Might be more accurate to say "former pole position and race winner", he hasn't been doing much of either recently. Last pole Austria 2014, last win (surprisingly, surprised me anyway) was the "is that Glock going slowly, it's Glock" Brazilian race of 2008.

How about 2010 German GP? Truly deserved to win that one.

'Fernando is faster than you, do you understand?'

'Sorry'

At that point Massa should have decided to leave Ferrari at the end of the season. He was shown then that he'd never be granted another chance at the championship. They were both pulling away from Vettel in third and it was quite early in the season.[i]

I agree with your first two points but not (necessarily) the second, it's a moot point at best. Massa had a decent start to the season but had tailed off badly in the previous three races (15th, 11th, 15th) and trailed Alonso by 27 points.

After Germany Alonso outscored Massa by 132 points to 77 (1 DNF each).
Alonso won more races than any one else that year. Had they not swapped them in Germany Alonso would have still won 4 races to Massa's 1, with the swap it wa 5 - 0.

I don't like team orders but I would say Ferrari were correct in throwing their weight behind Alonso if they wanted to win the drivers title.

Oh I completely agree that Ferrari were right to put their weight behind Alonso, but Massa should have seen the writing on the wall then. Yet he stayed at Ferrari for another few years. I daresay the money was way better than he'd get anywhere else that would have him, even as the No. 1 driver in the team.

[DanielSan]

Massa has just announced his retirement, again, from F1.

[AndStilliRise]

DanielSan said:

Massa has just announced his retirement, again, from F1.

That's a shame.

[thegreenhell]

AndStilliRise said:

DanielSan said:

Massa has just announced his retirement, again, from F1.

That's a shame.

It's really not.

[Europa Jon]

I agree with Massa retiring, but isn't this the 'Kubica back in an F1 car' thread???
I'd love to see the Pole back in a competitive seat next year and look at this thread every couple of days for news, only to find sweet FA about it!

[cuprabob]

I was cynical that the Renault testing was just a PR exercise but I would like to see him given a chance at Williams to see what he can do. If it doesn't work out after a couple of races he can easily be replaced.

Edited by cuprabob on Sunday 5th November 12:22

[MartG]

cuprabob said:

I was cynical that the Renault testing was just a Problem exercise but I would like to see him given a chance at Williams to see what he can do. If it doesn't work out after a couple of races he can easily be replaced.

Let Massa retire after Brazil, and pop Kubica in the car for Abu Dhabi ?

[cuprabob]

MartG said:

Let Massa retire after Brazil, and pop Kubica in the car for Abu Dhabi ?

That would be a good idea

[37chevy]

Am I the only one not excited about getting Kubica or di resta in next years Williams? I’d rather see a good young talent in the car than a washed up guy or someone who almost destroyed his hand. Same goes for riakonnen really

[Vaud]

I’d love to see Kubica race again. Meh to di resta...

[Dr Murdoch]

Only if he can. No one wants to see him struggle and be a shadow of his former self (that being up for debate)

[Vaud]

Dr Murdoch said:

Only if he can. No one wants to see him struggle and be a shadow of his former self (that being up for debate)

Oh I agree. I want to see him race if he can lead the team on track and off track.

[Wh00sher]

37chevy said:

Am I the only one not excited about getting Kubica or di resta in next years Williams? I’d rather see a good young talent in the car

I agree, but the Martini sponsorship is the issue isn`t it. They need a driver over 25 for marketing purposes which limits the available choices.

[HustleRussell]

Wh00sher said:

I agree, but the Martini sponsorship is the issue isn`t it. They need a driver over 25 for marketing purposes which limits the available choices.

Not strictly true.

[MissChief]

HustleRussell said:

Wh00sher said:

I agree, but the Martini sponsorship is the issue isn`t it. They need a driver over 25 for marketing purposes which limits the available choices.

Not strictly true.

I've heard several different takes on it, from Martini's sponsorship conditions state they MUST have a driver over 25 for sponsor duties, to Williams can have two drivers under 25, if they also have a 'Brand Ambassador' for sponsor duties, through to 'They only need a driver over 25 for two or three races a season due to sponsor requirements' and 'EU rules forbid anyone under 25 from being used in advertising for alcohol'.

[Vaud]

MissChief said:

I've heard several different takes on it, from Martini's sponsorship conditions state they MUST have a driver over 25 for sponsor duties, to Williams can have two drivers under 25, if they also have a 'Brand Ambassador' for sponsor duties, through to 'They only need a driver over 25 for two or three races a season due to sponsor requirements' and 'EU rules forbid anyone under 25 from being used in advertising for alcohol'.

On your first point, sponsorship contracts can always be amended with negotiation.

[HustleRussell]

Paddy Lowe said:

What's most important for the team is to pick a driver line-up that will give us the best performance and most exciting racing potential. There are some issues around advertising and Martini but if it came to it, I'm sure Martini would understand the importance -- if that's what we were to choose -- to have the best lineup for racing rather than for advertising.

We will cross that bridge if we need to. Age is not a factor in our primary objective which is to pick the best lineup.

A direct quote according to ESPN, 25th Oct.

[Sa Calobra]

When Williams go with two U25's we'll know it was a desperate advertising gimmick to keep them in the press. Kubica deserves better.

Williams we're a top team many many years ago. Karma bit them when they ditched Damon.