Discussion
Eddie Jordan talking about Mercedes being up for sale. Presumably Jordan waffle again ?
http://www.planetf1.com/news/jordan-tips-mercedes-...
http://www.planetf1.com/news/jordan-tips-mercedes-...
Edited by sparta6 on Wednesday 7th June 23:39
sparta6 said:
Eddie Jordan talking about Mercedes being up for sale. Presumably Jordan waffle again ?
http://www.planetf1.com/news/jordan-tips-mercedes-...
He's talking shttp://www.planetf1.com/news/jordan-tips-mercedes-...
te.It would not surprise me.
Ferrari need F1 as it their main brand building tool. It is difficult to switch off.
For MercedesGP, it is a tactical tool that costs a fraction of their total global marketing spend. It is easy to switch the spend on or off.
Remember, MercedesGP is a separate company with Toto and others as shareholders. Daimler Benz invest in this too, but if they disappeared , the team could change identity as quickly as it went from BAR, to Honda, to Brawn, to Merc.
Toto and co will already be looking for the next owner/investor. The team will survive, but the name would be different - and the engine could be the same.
Ferrari need F1 as it their main brand building tool. It is difficult to switch off.
For MercedesGP, it is a tactical tool that costs a fraction of their total global marketing spend. It is easy to switch the spend on or off.
Remember, MercedesGP is a separate company with Toto and others as shareholders. Daimler Benz invest in this too, but if they disappeared , the team could change identity as quickly as it went from BAR, to Honda, to Brawn, to Merc.
Toto and co will already be looking for the next owner/investor. The team will survive, but the name would be different - and the engine could be the same.
Chrisgr31 said:
And that basically begs the question as to why the LMP1 cars don't have engines with the same basic architecture of an F1 so that teams would be able to do both or move from one to the other.
because Le Mans allows significantly more freedom in their Formula. Porsche have a 2 litre V4 and Toyota a 2.4 V6. Teams can therefore do what they want, which will suit them, rather than being hamstrung by layout/capacity formula. It isn't in the sportscar tradition to be so prescriptive with rules as formula racing - and I think many would be disappointed to encounter restrictions put in purely to allow F1 manufacturers to dabble if they fancied it at some point.
motorsport.com said:
"Monaco is a place where people like to party and it seems like somebody did a bit too much of that," Wolff said in a statement. "The reports are completely baseless and reflect nothing more than the mischievous speculation of one individual."
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-mercedes-rubbishes-baseless-claims-915204/Vocal Minority said:
because Le Mans allows significantly more freedom in their Formula. Porsche have a 2 litre V4 and Toyota a 2.4 V6.
Teams can therefore do what they want, which will suit them, rather than being hamstrung by layout/capacity formula. It isn't in the sportscar tradition to be so prescriptive with rules as formula racing - and I think many would be disappointed to encounter restrictions put in purely to allow F1 manufacturers to dabble if they fancied it at some point.
F1 was more interesting with greater engine options. The V10's vs V8's created some exciting racesTeams can therefore do what they want, which will suit them, rather than being hamstrung by layout/capacity formula. It isn't in the sportscar tradition to be so prescriptive with rules as formula racing - and I think many would be disappointed to encounter restrictions put in purely to allow F1 manufacturers to dabble if they fancied it at some point.
Vocal Minority said:
Chrisgr31 said:
And that basically begs the question as to why the LMP1 cars don't have engines with the same basic architecture of an F1 so that teams would be able to do both or move from one to the other.
because Le Mans allows significantly more freedom in their Formula. Porsche have a 2 litre V4 and Toyota a 2.4 V6. Teams can therefore do what they want, which will suit them, rather than being hamstrung by layout/capacity formula. It isn't in the sportscar tradition to be so prescriptive with rules as formula racing - and I think many would be disappointed to encounter restrictions put in purely to allow F1 manufacturers to dabble if they fancied it at some point.
One of the reasons why the current F1 PU rules are so restrictive is to avoid people developing pseudo-diesel or actual diesel engines for F1.
So, Eddie's logic on this is that Merc have nothing left to prove so can leave with their head held high.
By that logic, Ferrari should have left years ago.
He backs it up by saying that he told Zetsche all this and Zetsche was polite enough to not tell Eddie he's an idiot, which Eddie took to mean his idea is probable.
Mercedes said last year they reckon they get $3bn of value from being in F1 - brand recognition, awareness etc.
Last year the op loss was under $20m, not quite pocket change, but not far off.
I would suggest that Mercedes aren't going to go anywhere unless one of a few things happen:
FOM slash the payouts without a proportional reduction in costs
Merc decide that they aren't getting that $3bn value any more.
I don't think any of this will happen before 2020 at earliest. If Merc get what they want from new engine regs / agreement with FOM they will stay. If they left FOM would want another team (or owner) to replace them as its harder to make the "great show" they keep on about with only 9 (or less?) teams.
By that logic, Ferrari should have left years ago.
He backs it up by saying that he told Zetsche all this and Zetsche was polite enough to not tell Eddie he's an idiot, which Eddie took to mean his idea is probable.
Mercedes said last year they reckon they get $3bn of value from being in F1 - brand recognition, awareness etc.
Last year the op loss was under $20m, not quite pocket change, but not far off.
I would suggest that Mercedes aren't going to go anywhere unless one of a few things happen:
FOM slash the payouts without a proportional reduction in costs
Merc decide that they aren't getting that $3bn value any more.
I don't think any of this will happen before 2020 at earliest. If Merc get what they want from new engine regs / agreement with FOM they will stay. If they left FOM would want another team (or owner) to replace them as its harder to make the "great show" they keep on about with only 9 (or less?) teams.
I think Crafty has nailed it.
The story goes something like EJ asked Dr Z (the real,one) " when did you stop beating your wife? And Dr Z replies politely "But I have never beat my wife" EJ creates a scoop that reads
Dr Z DENIED RUMOURS THAT HE BEATS HIS WIFE
Eddie has been sidelined to a large extent by C4 - he is noisily going through his final death throws.
To me he epitomised the entrepreneurial spirit of the Garagistas era of F1.
It's now history. F1 is BIG business, there is no room for the small-minded guys.
The story goes something like EJ asked Dr Z (the real,one) " when did you stop beating your wife? And Dr Z replies politely "But I have never beat my wife" EJ creates a scoop that reads
Dr Z DENIED RUMOURS THAT HE BEATS HIS WIFE
Eddie has been sidelined to a large extent by C4 - he is noisily going through his final death throws.
To me he epitomised the entrepreneurial spirit of the Garagistas era of F1.
It's now history. F1 is BIG business, there is no room for the small-minded guys.
I might be typing this with tin foil hat on, but from chatting with some friends last night we had the theory that this partly could be Mercedes trying to strengthen their hand in the new engine regs negotiations.
Basically our, albeit alcohol fueled, theory was that Mercedes had the following conversation with Eddie J
Merc: "Would you like a new car?"
EJ: "Yes please"
Merc:"You can have one for free if you make one of your wild and crazy predictions to help people think we might be pulling out and we get Liberty Media et al running to us saying 'You cant pull out. You supply a third of the grid. You have to stay, here have some concessions to make it attractive for you to stay'"
Merc: "I mean we know that no-one believes a word you say, you know that you are making it up 99% of the time, but that 1% of the time when your luck is in and you got the magic prediction that no-one saw, people believe you know something, so what you say will get reported and publicized so we get the story out there, but we can claim 'Oh its just that silly Irishman spouting rubbish again - don't listen to him' so its win-win
EJ: "Where are the keys...?"
Basically our, albeit alcohol fueled, theory was that Mercedes had the following conversation with Eddie J
Merc: "Would you like a new car?"
EJ: "Yes please"
Merc:"You can have one for free if you make one of your wild and crazy predictions to help people think we might be pulling out and we get Liberty Media et al running to us saying 'You cant pull out. You supply a third of the grid. You have to stay, here have some concessions to make it attractive for you to stay'"
Merc: "I mean we know that no-one believes a word you say, you know that you are making it up 99% of the time, but that 1% of the time when your luck is in and you got the magic prediction that no-one saw, people believe you know something, so what you say will get reported and publicized so we get the story out there, but we can claim 'Oh its just that silly Irishman spouting rubbish again - don't listen to him' so its win-win
EJ: "Where are the keys...?"
Markytop said:
I might be typing this with tin foil hat on, but from chatting with some friends last night we had the theory that this partly could be Mercedes trying to strengthen their hand in the new engine regs negotiations.
Basically our, albeit alcohol fueled, theory was that Mercedes had the following conversation with Eddie J
Merc: "Would you like a new car?"
EJ: "Yes please"
Merc:"You can have one for free if you make one of your wild and crazy predictions to help people think we might be pulling out and we get Liberty Media et al running to us saying 'You cant pull out. You supply a third of the grid. You have to stay, here have some concessions to make it attractive for you to stay'"
Merc: "I mean we know that no-one believes a word you say, you know that you are making it up 99% of the time, but that 1% of the time when your luck is in and you got the magic prediction that no-one saw, people believe you know something, so what you say will get reported and publicized so we get the story out there, but we can claim 'Oh its just that silly Irishman spouting rubbish again - don't listen to him' so its win-win
EJ: "Where are the keys...?"
The way F1 has conducted itself in the past, there could be a small truth in this somewhere lol Basically our, albeit alcohol fueled, theory was that Mercedes had the following conversation with Eddie J
Merc: "Would you like a new car?"
EJ: "Yes please"
Merc:"You can have one for free if you make one of your wild and crazy predictions to help people think we might be pulling out and we get Liberty Media et al running to us saying 'You cant pull out. You supply a third of the grid. You have to stay, here have some concessions to make it attractive for you to stay'"
Merc: "I mean we know that no-one believes a word you say, you know that you are making it up 99% of the time, but that 1% of the time when your luck is in and you got the magic prediction that no-one saw, people believe you know something, so what you say will get reported and publicized so we get the story out there, but we can claim 'Oh its just that silly Irishman spouting rubbish again - don't listen to him' so its win-win
EJ: "Where are the keys...?"
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