The Official 2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**

[S0 What]

Just a thought on the 1st safety car, DKs car had to cross the track to be removed so a VSC would not have been sufficiant as it would have left the field spread out lowering the available time to cross the track hanging from a recovery crane, hense a full safety car was the only option, it obv took the FIA a while to realise the recovery truck was on the otherside of the track which is why we had 2/3 laps of VSC before the full SC ?
WOW what a race

Also a point about LH asking Bottas to back up into Vettel and how selfish it was, he also said he should slow down the pack under the SC to help Bottas catch up the back of the pack and was told not to, just thought i pop that out there as it seems a lot of posters only seem to notice the negatives in certain drivers.

Edited by S0 What on Monday 26th June 01:48

[Second Best]

CanoeSniffer said:

No hard feelings

For what it's worth, I thought Baku was one of the best races I've seen for a long time. Some of the drama may have been contrived or unnecessary (e.g. repeated safety cars), but in all honesty once I looked past that, the race was quite a spectacle. Battles all the way up and down the rank, and I've never laughed out of respect as much seeing Kimi's engineers frantically pushing the car down the track to get him out after the red flag.

I am a fan of both Vettel and Hamilton. However, like most, I do think that the instigator of the drama today is Vettel. If he'd simply have bumped Hamilton from behind and left it at that, then I think he'd be forgiven. It just takes a "I thought he was going, he didn't, I bumped him, you saw it." That would have been the end of that. To deliberately drive alongside Hamilton and, for whatever reason, crash rather forcefully into the side of him, is simply uncalled for. I remain a Vettel fan but will happily say I'm disappointed in his actions, and more disappointed with the FIA for neglecting to penalise him for driving into someone with intent.

After I saw the first bump up the arse, I just thought "whoopsie Vettel, racing incident, egg on face." I did think when the onboard footage was shown that there was a rather obvious bump, but I put it down to a tailslide or suspension failure or something else forgiveable. Watching the external replay of the dart into Hamilton's wheel was rather sad to see.

Highlights for me were Ricciardo's fantastic overtake to get himself up onto the podium and Bottas' lunge on Stroll right at the end. While he may have had more speed or Stroll may have backed off etc, it certainly didn't seem that way from the TV footage and it caught me by surprise. Well done Stroll for P3 and for having a shoey too. (edit: also well done to Alonso and McLaren for finally scoring points!)

As the cameras faded out of the podium interviews, I just about saw Ricciardo pouring another shoey just as Valtteri made a very obvious swift exit. Did DC drink the third shoey?

[Mr Tidy]

Derek Smith said:

To be fair on the bloke, I think we could say that about all drivers at sometime in their careers.

But you are right. By his demeanour during the red flag stop he knew he'd dropped one.

I never really took to SV in the early days but he seems to have changed a bit over recent seasons and I was beginning to like him. But as soon as he was back in the lead of the championship he reverts.

Enjoyable race though. Lots of talking points. I was Impressed by Bottas' drive.

Nicely put - when SV was dominant at Red Bull I thought he was just an arrogant tw*t who couldn't really race.

But after he moved to Ferrari I was starting to warm to him, but what he did today was way out of order! OK, he made a misjudgement and hit the back of LH - time penalty, fair enough.

But then the gesticulating and deliberate contact is way out of order - black flag was surely the only appropriate penalty? Can they not apply a ban retrospectively - they do with footballers!

What is it with German F1 drivers - MS was a cheating crash-causing egotistical individual, NR tried to be but usually broke his own car as well, and now it's SV!

I just hope DK gets near enough to SV to ram him twice in the next race!

[ukaskew]

Are the drivers 'naughty points' and expiry dates available online?

It says something that Vettel is only one incident at the next race short of a race ban.

[Sa Calobra]

3 points added to Vettel licence. He's now on 9 points, 3short of a ban

He aimed to bang wheels. That should have been an automatic race ban. It could have ended LHs race. I was starting to warm to Vettel then this. It reminded me of the RB days again.

As for the vitorol against Lewis 'out of the car'. Do the people on here know and have met him? I don't. Get a life.

[Hub]

Can we be 100% sure that Vettel deliberately banged wheels, and didn't just want to veer as close as possible and wave his anger at Hamilton in the heat of the moment - and accidentally struck him?

I'm not trying to defend his poor actions, though I guess if he didn't mean to hit him he would have said so, instead of pretending it didn't happen!

[HTP99]

Hub said:

Can we be 100% sure that Vettel deliberately banged wheels, and didn't just want to veer as close as possible and wave his anger at Hamilton in the heat of the moment - and accidentally struck him?

I'm not trying to defend his poor actions, though I guess if he didn't mean to hit him he would have said so, instead of pretending it didn't happen!

Lol, these drivers can place their cars with millimetre precision whilst travelling at almost 200 mph, for lap after lap and you think that perhaps it was just a bit of a slip!

[DanielSan]

While it was a stupid thing to do, bare in mind that Vettel believed he'd just been brake checked by the guy in front, tbf adrenaline is pumping and wrongly he let it get the better of him. He's far from the first driver ever to do it, Senna was the master of taking rivals off the track yet is regarded by many as the best driver ever, and it could be argued Senna was a lot more calculating in doing in that Vettel banging wheels in a heat of the moment rage.

Just a thought.

[Crackie]

Second Best said:

CanoeSniffer said:

No hard feelings

For what it's worth, I thought Baku was one of the best races I've seen for a long time. Some of the drama may have been contrived or unnecessary (e.g. repeated safety cars), but in all honesty once I looked past that, the race was quite a spectacle.

like most, I do think that the instigator of the drama today is Vettel. If he'd simply have bumped Hamilton from behind and left it at that, then I think he'd be forgiven. It just takes a "I thought he was going, he didn't, I bumped him, you saw it." That would have been the end of that. To deliberately drive alongside Hamilton and, for whatever reason, crash rather forcefully into the side of him, is simply uncalled for. I remain a Vettel fan but will happily say I'm disappointed in his actions, and more disappointed with the FIA for neglecting to penalise him for driving into someone with intent.

After I saw the first bump up the arse, I just thought "whoopsie Vettel, racing incident, egg on face." I did think when the onboard footage was shown that there was a rather obvious bump, but I put it down to a tailslide or suspension failure or something else forgiveable. Watching the external replay of the dart into Hamilton's wheel was rather sad to see.

Highlights for me were Ricciardo's fantastic overtake to get himself up onto the podium

/\ This

Vettel's C4 interview was telling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNCOL6AMSsU

Vettel's conclusion.......Hamilton brake tested me, no doubt. Consequently my emotions were running high in the car, I'm a man, "I didn't have a radio" to speak with Lewis so my only method to communicate my annoyance was to gesticulate and drive into him. Maybe I do deserve a punishment for driving into him but he also deserves a punishment for brake testing me.

It would have been more refreshing to hear the truth......... Hamilton did not brake test me, its his prerogative to drive at whatever speed he wishes when following the safety car so long as he doesn't brake test me. I was driving too close to Lewis because he'd already embarrassed me badly at each of the previous re-starts; I assumed what Lewis would do on one of the corner exits and, like a complete bellend, I drove into the back of him. I then had a childish, petulant meltdown and vented my frustration by deliberately driving into him. What I did was wrong and I apologise unreservedly; I was a complete and utter cock.

[BrettMRC]

Going to be fun in the next drivers briefing when someone ask for clarification on what constitutes dangerous driving!

[ukaskew]

BrettMRC said:

Going to be fun in the next drivers briefing when someone ask for clarification on what constitutes dangerous driving!

Indeed, especially as the actual reason for Vettel's 10 second penalty was 'potentially dangerous' driving.

I'd love to know what constitutes actual honest-to-goodness dangerous driving.

[BoRED S2upid]

ukaskew said:

BrettMRC said:

Going to be fun in the next drivers briefing when someone ask for clarification on what constitutes dangerous driving!

Indeed, especially as the actual reason for Vettel's 10 second penalty was 'potentially dangerous' driving.

I'd love to know what constitutes actual honest-to-goodness dangerous driving.

Higher speed. At such a low speed it wasn't dangerous. Seen much worse driving from the likes of Senna and Schumacher yesterday was nothing.

[defblade]

S0 What said:

Just a thought on the 1st safety car, DKs car had to cross the track to be removed so a VSC would not have been sufficiant as it would have left the field spread out lowering the available time to cross the track hanging from a recovery crane, hense a full safety car was the only option,

I was thinking much the same as that when Lewis/commentators were asking about not using VSC for clearing the various debris... if I was a marshal having to scurry about the track looking for small bits of CF, I'd rather all the cars came past in a train and then gave me a minute or so of clear time to look/pick/run about the place, rather than a swerving car still doing a fair nip every few seconds.

[ukaskew]

BoRED S2upid said:

Higher speed. At such a low speed it wasn't dangerous. Seen much worse driving from the likes of Senna and Schumacher yesterday was nothing.

But given the higher profile of safety these days, you'd think they might have thrown the book at him (and I honestly think they would have at somebody not aiming for the title) if for no other reason than to set a reasonable precedent and to simply make a statement that it's in no way acceptable.

It's all ifs and buts, but if it had damaged the suspension on Hamilton's car and sent him into a wall when back up to speed, or loosened the front wing and sent it under his wheels heading into a corner etc.

Plenty of F1 fans consider the likes of BTCC a mickey mouse series for far lesser incidents than that.

[swisstoni]

ukaskew said:

BoRED S2upid said:

Higher speed. At such a low speed it wasn't dangerous. Seen much worse driving from the likes of Senna and Schumacher yesterday was nothing.

But given the higher profile of safety these days, you'd think they might have thrown the book at him (and I honestly think they would have at somebody not aiming for the title) if for no other reason than to set a reasonable precedent and to simply make a statement that it's in no way acceptable.

It's all ifs and buts, but if it had damaged the suspension on Hamilton's car and sent him into a wall when back up to speed, or loosened the front wing and sent it under his wheels heading into a corner etc.

I wonder if Charlie is coming under pressure not to 'ruin the show' from the new owners.
That decision seemed to take forever to come, and when it did it was poor.

[London424]

defblade said:

S0 What said:

Just a thought on the 1st safety car, DKs car had to cross the track to be removed so a VSC would not have been sufficiant as it would have left the field spread out lowering the available time to cross the track hanging from a recovery crane, hense a full safety car was the only option,

I was thinking much the same as that when Lewis/commentators were asking about not using VSC for clearing the various debris... if I was a marshal having to scurry about the track looking for small bits of CF, I'd rather all the cars came past in a train and then gave me a minute or so of clear time to look/pick/run about the place, rather than a swerving car still doing a fair nip every few seconds.

I don't think anyone had an issue with the first SC. Car stuck in a place that couldn't be sorted easily. It was the second SC that was a nonsense. They'd all grouped up then managed 2 or 3 corners and it was just bodywork rather than a car. They could have used the VSC at that point and had over 2 mins at a time to clear the track.

[Otispunkmeyer]

kambites said:

Fascinating race and nice to see some relatively unexpected faces on the podium.

I really can't understand how the stewards can justify letting Vettel off so lightly. Deliberately crashing into someone else should, as an aboslute minimum, result in a race ban IMO. In a way I'm glad they didn't for the sake of the drivers' championship, but I still can't understand it.

Should have been black flagged and out of the race

Even at the karting I went to at the weekend (KNE near sunderland, its bloody epic!). They said any deliberate ramming, contact etc and you'll be black flagged, called into the pits and they'll ask you to leave, with no refund. Literally any other race would have had that happen. A 10 second penalty is getting off lightly.

And to then not even acknowledge he did anything at all? Bizarre. "When did I do dangerous driving?" he asked incredulously, after everyone else has watched about 12 replays of him deliberately driving into the side of Lewis. Was he so angry he blacked out or something? Utter cretin. Gone down in my estimation.

[BoRED S2upid]

ukaskew said:

BoRED S2upid said:

Higher speed. At such a low speed it wasn't dangerous. Seen much worse driving from the likes of Senna and Schumacher yesterday was nothing.

But given the higher profile of safety these days, you'd think they might have thrown the book at him (and I honestly think they would have at somebody not aiming for the title) if for no other reason than to set a reasonable precedent and to simply make a statement that it's in no way acceptable.

It's all ifs and buts, but if it had damaged the suspension on Hamilton's car and sent him into a wall when back up to speed, or loosened the front wing and sent it under his wheels heading into a corner etc.

Plenty of F1 fans consider the likes of BTCC a mickey mouse series for far lesser incidents than that.

I think if he had damaged hamiltons car and affected his race Vetel would have been disqualified it was only because of the low speed he got the punishment he did which should have been enough to ruin his race it's not just 10 seconds stop go it's 20+ once you drive through the pits and the 3 points on his licence which could see him miss a race.

[Doink]

Maybe the fact the Mercedes is 150mm longer than the others caught vettel out, merc should put one of those 'long vehicle' signs under the rear wing to warn vettel next time he's behind Lewis? Or one of those 'how's my driving' stickers LOL!

[Roofless Toothless]

London424 said:

defblade said:

S0 What said:

Just a thought on the 1st safety car, DKs car had to cross the track to be removed so a VSC would not have been sufficiant as it would have left the field spread out lowering the available time to cross the track hanging from a recovery crane, hense a full safety car was the only option,

I was thinking much the same as that when Lewis/commentators were asking about not using VSC for clearing the various debris... if I was a marshal having to scurry about the track looking for small bits of CF, I'd rather all the cars came past in a train and then gave me a minute or so of clear time to look/pick/run about the place, rather than a swerving car still doing a fair nip every few seconds.

I don't think anyone had an issue with the first SC. Car stuck in a place that couldn't be sorted easily. It was the second SC that was a nonsense. They'd all grouped up then managed 2 or 3 corners and it was just bodywork rather than a car. They could have used the VSC at that point and had over 2 mins at a time to clear the track.

I think it was a difficult call either way. A red flag was the only way to go. There was debris at several places on the track, on one occasion even being flung up into a driver's face. Alonso, and probably other drivers we didn't hear, were calling for a red.

A VSC still leaves the cars circulating at 80 mph, and the yellow flags are already in use. They had guys with brooms and even a mechanical sweeper (of sorts!) out on the track to clear it all up. Not a situation you expose a volunteer Marshall to.

And with a real safety car, you can't rely on all the cars getting collected into the train. If anyone goes into the pits they are allowed to catch up at pretty well unabated speed. And they do! It's why marshals carry Acme Thunderers!