The Official 2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
Shame all this nonsense has taken the sheen off Stroll's performance.
On another point, the fact that a street circuit like Baku can provide more excitement and spectacle than any other circuit on the GP calendar tells you something about the sterility of the Tilke-era procession routes. Four abreast at the end of that main straight was spectacular. Even the tyre-warming sessions were something to behold.
On another point, the fact that a street circuit like Baku can provide more excitement and spectacle than any other circuit on the GP calendar tells you something about the sterility of the Tilke-era procession routes. Four abreast at the end of that main straight was spectacular. Even the tyre-warming sessions were something to behold.
Munter said:
GuitarTech said:
Breaking news: It's all over the internet that Lewis has suggested that he and Vettel sort their differences out with a man-on-man confrontation. Fisticuffs behind the pitlane, it's hammertime Lewis 
You couldn't make it up, the media always tell the truth, don't they?....Oh, wait....
He said it on the Live C4 coverage.You couldn't make it up, the media always tell the truth, don't they?....Oh, wait....
Or maybe its going to be the main event at Mayweather vs McGregor in August.
Hungrymc said:
Munter said:
GuitarTech said:
Breaking news: It's all over the internet that Lewis has suggested that he and Vettel sort their differences out with a man-on-man confrontation. Fisticuffs behind the pitlane, it's hammertime Lewis
You couldn't make it up, the media always tell the truth, don't they?....Oh, wait....
He said it on the Live C4 coverage.You couldn't make it up, the media always tell the truth, don't they?....Oh, wait....
Or maybe its going to be the main event at Mayweather vs McGregor in August.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aj-u1ttZOg
Apart from the VET-HAM shenanigans, a few things of note from this race;
I thought Ocon putting Perez in the wall was totally uncalled for, and this could've been a win for Force India. Heck, even Kimi gave a lot more room for 'that guy' from another team (and still got clobbered). Gets my goat when team mates get shirty and lose points for the team. I get it if the team is dominating the WCC and the team mates are fighting for the WDC between themselves but don't get it at all if you're in a midfielder team like FI.
Both Mercs were hitting outrageous trap speeds in the closing stages of the race with the engines turned up to 11. Consider it a minor miracle that Vettel was able to keep Hamilton behind. Stroll was unlucky in this regard. Hamilton was hitting near enough 348 kph max speed with a tow compared to Vettel's 320 kph in clear air. Vettel still bagged fastest lap, so race pace is still good. Purple sector 2s all the way...good.
Fastest lap 3 secs faster than last year. All that extra drag and these cars are hitting similar top speeds. Nice.
I thought Ocon putting Perez in the wall was totally uncalled for, and this could've been a win for Force India. Heck, even Kimi gave a lot more room for 'that guy' from another team (and still got clobbered). Gets my goat when team mates get shirty and lose points for the team. I get it if the team is dominating the WCC and the team mates are fighting for the WDC between themselves but don't get it at all if you're in a midfielder team like FI.
Both Mercs were hitting outrageous trap speeds in the closing stages of the race with the engines turned up to 11. Consider it a minor miracle that Vettel was able to keep Hamilton behind. Stroll was unlucky in this regard. Hamilton was hitting near enough 348 kph max speed with a tow compared to Vettel's 320 kph in clear air. Vettel still bagged fastest lap, so race pace is still good. Purple sector 2s all the way...good.
Fastest lap 3 secs faster than last year. All that extra drag and these cars are hitting similar top speeds. Nice.
Blackpuddin said:
Shame all this nonsense has taken the sheen off Stroll's performance.
Interesting question... just how good was Stroll's performance? He obviously drove a clean race where a lot of more experienced drivers didn't which is to be lauded... but by my reckoning on pure pace (had other people not had mechanical issues/crashes/penalties) he would have been around 10th. Obviously when you're in a mid-field car, taking advantage of that sort of situation is an important part of the job and I'm very happy for him getting sucha good result but here's no getting away from the fact that he benefited hugely from other people's bad luck and/or mistakes.
Dr Z said:
Apart from the VET-HAM shenanigans, a few things of note from this race;
I thought Ocon putting Perez in the wall was totally uncalled for, and this could've been a win for Force India. Heck, even Kimi gave a lot more room for 'that guy' from another team (and still got clobbered). Gets my goat when team mates get shirty and lose points for the team. I get it if the team is dominating the WCC and the team mates are fighting for the WDC between themselves but don't get it at all if you're in a midfielder team like FI.
.
If you watch the sequence before that you see Perez take a swipe at Ocon on the straight (pretty sure they hit), so wasn't surprised that Ocon left him no room at that corner. I thought Ocon putting Perez in the wall was totally uncalled for, and this could've been a win for Force India. Heck, even Kimi gave a lot more room for 'that guy' from another team (and still got clobbered). Gets my goat when team mates get shirty and lose points for the team. I get it if the team is dominating the WCC and the team mates are fighting for the WDC between themselves but don't get it at all if you're in a midfielder team like FI.
.
Dr Z said:
Both Mercs were hitting outrageous trap speeds in the closing stages of the race with the engines turned up to 11. Consider it a minor miracle that Vettel was able to keep Hamilton behind. Stroll was unlucky in this regard. Hamilton was hitting near enough 348 kph max speed with a tow compared to Vettel's 320 kph in clear air.
I was struggling to process just how Bottas pipped Stroll on the line, so that would explain it. He was pretty far back even with the line in sight, it felt like it came out of nowhere, brilliant timing to pull out of the tow and nail him on the line (gutted for Stroll, though!)Enricogto said:
This and many other similar posts in this thread show the difference between a racer and fans commentating from the sofa.
Don't get me wrong, Vettel was wrong in what he did.
However, what we saw yesterday was another demonstration of the old saying "You're not anymore a racing driver if when you see a gap you don't go for it". After the restart Vettel knew he had to stay as close as possible to the back of Hamilton's car if he wanted a chance to attack on the next straight. Hamilton was at the front and had the right to dictate the pace, however he should have accelerated a bit out of the corner, knowing that he had about 15 cars behind him accelerating and swerving before the corner and out of it in order to maintain the tire temp. Again, this is not an excuse for Vettel. But the moment he had backed of an maintained a 3-4 car length distance between them, he would have relinquished any chance of attack, and he wouldn't have been a race car driver anymore. And this is valid for any form of sport, be it karting, BTCC, F1....hell, even bike racing!
Aren't you just another fan commentating from your sofa? Or are you trying to convince us that you are on the same level as Vettel?Don't get me wrong, Vettel was wrong in what he did.
However, what we saw yesterday was another demonstration of the old saying "You're not anymore a racing driver if when you see a gap you don't go for it". After the restart Vettel knew he had to stay as close as possible to the back of Hamilton's car if he wanted a chance to attack on the next straight. Hamilton was at the front and had the right to dictate the pace, however he should have accelerated a bit out of the corner, knowing that he had about 15 cars behind him accelerating and swerving before the corner and out of it in order to maintain the tire temp. Again, this is not an excuse for Vettel. But the moment he had backed of an maintained a 3-4 car length distance between them, he would have relinquished any chance of attack, and he wouldn't have been a race car driver anymore. And this is valid for any form of sport, be it karting, BTCC, F1....hell, even bike racing!
cb1965 said:
Forgive me as I've been a bit busy since the race, but is there a chance that the move was not deliberate? From the onboard I have seen he was gesticulating wildly so is there a chance it was accidental in that he caught the wheel with his hand has he put it in or pulled it out of the cockpit? Maybe this and the slow speed is why the punishment was more lenient than might have been expected.
The telemetry shows Hamilton did not unduly slow or alter the pressure on the brake pedal so the stewards know there was no brake test, but I think the other factors maybe why the punishment is seen to befit the crime by them.
Based on this, I would say not.The telemetry shows Hamilton did not unduly slow or alter the pressure on the brake pedal so the stewards know there was no brake test, but I think the other factors maybe why the punishment is seen to befit the crime by them.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HSN-S9r3PV8
sandman77 said:
Enricogto said:
This and many other similar posts in this thread show the difference between a racer and fans commentating from the sofa.
Don't get me wrong, Vettel was wrong in what he did.
However, what we saw yesterday was another demonstration of the old saying "You're not anymore a racing driver if when you see a gap you don't go for it". After the restart Vettel knew he had to stay as close as possible to the back of Hamilton's car if he wanted a chance to attack on the next straight. Hamilton was at the front and had the right to dictate the pace, however he should have accelerated a bit out of the corner, knowing that he had about 15 cars behind him accelerating and swerving before the corner and out of it in order to maintain the tire temp. Again, this is not an excuse for Vettel. But the moment he had backed of an maintained a 3-4 car length distance between them, he would have relinquished any chance of attack, and he wouldn't have been a race car driver anymore. And this is valid for any form of sport, be it karting, BTCC, F1....hell, even bike racing!
Aren't you just another fan commentating from your sofa? Or are you trying to convince us that you are on the same level as Vettel?Don't get me wrong, Vettel was wrong in what he did.
However, what we saw yesterday was another demonstration of the old saying "You're not anymore a racing driver if when you see a gap you don't go for it". After the restart Vettel knew he had to stay as close as possible to the back of Hamilton's car if he wanted a chance to attack on the next straight. Hamilton was at the front and had the right to dictate the pace, however he should have accelerated a bit out of the corner, knowing that he had about 15 cars behind him accelerating and swerving before the corner and out of it in order to maintain the tire temp. Again, this is not an excuse for Vettel. But the moment he had backed of an maintained a 3-4 car length distance between them, he would have relinquished any chance of attack, and he wouldn't have been a race car driver anymore. And this is valid for any form of sport, be it karting, BTCC, F1....hell, even bike racing!
I didn't hear any commentators criticising Vettel for his opportunism behind Hamilton and that it resulted in the minor bump. So absolutely spot on Vettel was and should have been seeking every opportunity.
However, it is his outburst, his reasoning for the initial contact, then subsequent belligerence about it all that still has people baffled. He screwed up and his behaviour was shocking. Your reasoning about what Hamilton should or shouldn't have been doing isn't really relevant in any of that. Nor is it a valid argument either given that the stewards reviewed the data and found Hamilton behaved in virtually the same way as the previous two restarts.
Vettel was a tool. Opportunism and racing drivers instinct has NOTHING to do with it.
sandman77 said:
Enricogto said:
This and many other similar posts in this thread show the difference between a racer and fans commentating from the sofa.
Don't get me wrong, Vettel was wrong in what he did.
However, what we saw yesterday was another demonstration of the old saying "You're not anymore a racing driver if when you see a gap you don't go for it". After the restart Vettel knew he had to stay as close as possible to the back of Hamilton's car if he wanted a chance to attack on the next straight. Hamilton was at the front and had the right to dictate the pace, however he should have accelerated a bit out of the corner, knowing that he had about 15 cars behind him accelerating and swerving before the corner and out of it in order to maintain the tire temp. Again, this is not an excuse for Vettel. But the moment he had backed of an maintained a 3-4 car length distance between them, he would have relinquished any chance of attack, and he wouldn't have been a race car driver anymore. And this is valid for any form of sport, be it karting, BTCC, F1....hell, even bike racing!
Aren't you just another fan commentating from your sofa? Or are you trying to convince us that you are on the same level as Vettel?Don't get me wrong, Vettel was wrong in what he did.
However, what we saw yesterday was another demonstration of the old saying "You're not anymore a racing driver if when you see a gap you don't go for it". After the restart Vettel knew he had to stay as close as possible to the back of Hamilton's car if he wanted a chance to attack on the next straight. Hamilton was at the front and had the right to dictate the pace, however he should have accelerated a bit out of the corner, knowing that he had about 15 cars behind him accelerating and swerving before the corner and out of it in order to maintain the tire temp. Again, this is not an excuse for Vettel. But the moment he had backed of an maintained a 3-4 car length distance between them, he would have relinquished any chance of attack, and he wouldn't have been a race car driver anymore. And this is valid for any form of sport, be it karting, BTCC, F1....hell, even bike racing!
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/10927676/az...
The FIA could still take further action against Vettel under article 151c for bringing the sport into disrepute and the penalties could be limitless
Come on FIA do the right thing, you've already proven Lewis did absolutely nothing wrong, he neither brake tested nor accelerated so this cleary points all the blame should be on Vettel, IF there we some anomalies in Lewis's data you could perhaps argue Vettels case but its as clear as day Lewis did nothing different to the other SC starts
The FIA could still take further action against Vettel under article 151c for bringing the sport into disrepute and the penalties could be limitless
Come on FIA do the right thing, you've already proven Lewis did absolutely nothing wrong, he neither brake tested nor accelerated so this cleary points all the blame should be on Vettel, IF there we some anomalies in Lewis's data you could perhaps argue Vettels case but its as clear as day Lewis did nothing different to the other SC starts
Racing Rod said:
I have watched the clip a number of times and if I could watch it in slow motion or clip by clip I suspect that Vettel was slightly ahead of Hamilton be it a centimetre or two when he turned in on him. Does this amount to overtaking under yellows/safety car ??
It doesn't matter to some extent. The race results have been published.Doink said:
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/10927676/az...
The FIA could still take further action against Vettel under article 151c for bringing the sport into disrepute and the penalties could be limitless
Come on FIA do the right thing, you've already proven Lewis did absolutely nothing wrong, he neither brake tested nor accelerated so this cleary points all the blame should be on Vettel, IF there we some anomalies in Lewis's data you could perhaps argue Vettels case but its as clear as day Lewis did nothing different to the other SC starts
If it was at racing speed, then maybe it would be worth them looking at.The FIA could still take further action against Vettel under article 151c for bringing the sport into disrepute and the penalties could be limitless
Come on FIA do the right thing, you've already proven Lewis did absolutely nothing wrong, he neither brake tested nor accelerated so this cleary points all the blame should be on Vettel, IF there we some anomalies in Lewis's data you could perhaps argue Vettels case but its as clear as day Lewis did nothing different to the other SC starts
All a fuss over a minor transgression in my view.
London424 said:
Dr Z said:
Apart from the VET-HAM shenanigans, a few things of note from this race;
I thought Ocon putting Perez in the wall was totally uncalled for, and this could've been a win for Force India. Heck, even Kimi gave a lot more room for 'that guy' from another team (and still got clobbered). Gets my goat when team mates get shirty and lose points for the team. I get it if the team is dominating the WCC and the team mates are fighting for the WDC between themselves but don't get it at all if you're in a midfielder team like FI.
.
If you watch the sequence before that you see Perez take a swipe at Ocon on the straight (pretty sure they hit), so wasn't surprised that Ocon left him no room at that corner. I thought Ocon putting Perez in the wall was totally uncalled for, and this could've been a win for Force India. Heck, even Kimi gave a lot more room for 'that guy' from another team (and still got clobbered). Gets my goat when team mates get shirty and lose points for the team. I get it if the team is dominating the WCC and the team mates are fighting for the WDC between themselves but don't get it at all if you're in a midfielder team like FI.
.
However the team need to manage this. Perez isn't happy with the young upstart showing him up, didn't like it last race, took a swipe at him this race.
I'm a Ferrari fan and also think Vettel is very talented.
What's happened has happened but what has annoyed me since the race has been the way vettel has been answering the questions put to him.
It has been totally ridiculous the way he has tried to navigate around the questions. As much as I support him I wish one journalist had just come out with something along the lines of 'stop being so bloody ridiculous, you clearly hit him on purpose, what do you have to say'?
If he had accidentally hit the wheel whilst gesturing then I'm sure he would have said so, but trying to make out the thing hadn't been caught on tv or everyone imagined it has made him come across as a bit silly.
What's happened has happened but what has annoyed me since the race has been the way vettel has been answering the questions put to him.
It has been totally ridiculous the way he has tried to navigate around the questions. As much as I support him I wish one journalist had just come out with something along the lines of 'stop being so bloody ridiculous, you clearly hit him on purpose, what do you have to say'?
If he had accidentally hit the wheel whilst gesturing then I'm sure he would have said so, but trying to make out the thing hadn't been caught on tv or everyone imagined it has made him come across as a bit silly.
Vaud said:
Racing Rod said:
I have watched the clip a number of times and if I could watch it in slow motion or clip by clip I suspect that Vettel was slightly ahead of Hamilton be it a centimetre or two when he turned in on him. Does this amount to overtaking under yellows/safety car ??
It doesn't matter to some extent. The race results have been published.Racing Rod said:
Vaud said:
Racing Rod said:
I have watched the clip a number of times and if I could watch it in slow motion or clip by clip I suspect that Vettel was slightly ahead of Hamilton be it a centimetre or two when he turned in on him. Does this amount to overtaking under yellows/safety car ??
It doesn't matter to some extent. The race results have been published.Hamilton was allowed to back the pack up, but it could equally be argued that he was a touch slow.
To your point, I can't find a definition of "overtake" - but it says "overtake" in the rules would probably imply that the whole car, or the majority of the car would have to pass.
I have seen lots of people being passed at the start of a warm up lap and along side during safety cars - with no penalty applied. I think the stewards show some pragmatism.
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