The Official 2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
hairyben said:
I've never seen anything like "that" in the 25+ years ive been watching and thats included as we all know plenty of deliberate and/or avoidable crashes.
Malonado did something similar in practice at Monaco a few seasons ago. I'm not sure what sort of sanction he received.Doink said:
VladD said:
According to this Lewis currently only has 2 points on his licence. I wonder if he'll use that to try and wind Seb up a bit more to see if he can get him a 1 race ban. 
Does anyone else see the irony in this and a pattern emerging........Sebastian Vettel
British GP 10-Jul-17 Forcing driver off track 2 points
Malaysian GP 02-Oct-17 Collision 2 points
Mexican GP 30-Oct-17 Driving dangerously 2 points
Azerbaijan GP 25-Jun-18 Collision 3 points
Lewis Hamilton
Bahrain GP 16-Apr-18 Too slow in pit lane 2 points
Doink said:
I appreciate that there is probably no way they actually know this..."Reports in Germany claim Vettel's lead of the world championship, and the reluctance of the stewards to interfere with the title battle, may have been a factor in them only imposing a 10-second stop-and-go penalty
But if there is even a shred of truth in that I really do despair. It's wrong to take that into account at any point of the season, but there are still 12 races / 300 points on the line.
motco said:
The in-car footage (with sound) shows a fairly steady engine note which gives lie to allegations of brake testing. I cannot find a clip from Hamilton's car but it was on the C4 coverage.
The stewards and the FIA have completely exonerated Hamilton after looking at actual data overlayed with his previous safety car restarts, so I'm not sure why this is even still up for debate. I know sometimes there are questionable interpretations, but this seems like a slam dunk if there ever was one.I read one comment on social media on the official F1 feed that Mercedes must have doctored the trace, they seemed deadly serious in that accusation. Frightening.
Edited by ukaskew on Monday 26th June 14:05
schmunk said:
Vaud said:
This one wasn't even at racing speed.
...which makes it all the more obvious that it was a deliberate collision!Imagine if that impact had caused a crack in the suspension or wheel of either car and that failed the first time they hit V-Max, sending the car into the pit lane entrance. It doesn't bear thinking about.
Still astonished Vettel hasn't been properly sanctioned for what he did, its very poor form from the FIA.
Still astonished Vettel hasn't been properly sanctioned for what he did, its very poor form from the FIA.
ukaskew said:
Doink said:
I appreciate that there is probably no way they actually know this..."Reports in Germany claim Vettel's lead of the world championship, and the reluctance of the stewards to interfere with the title battle, may have been a factor in them only imposing a 10-second stop-and-go penalty
But if there is even a shred of truth in that I really do despair. It's wrong to take that into account at any point of the season, but there are still 12 races / 300 points on the line.
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/vettel...
Doink said:
If you can get this translated I think it's in here
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/vettel...
Translate by Chrome.http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/vettel...
NO BRAKE TEST FROM HAMILTON
Vettel just past disqualification
It was the scene of the race. Sebastian Vettel drives Lewis Hamilton to the top and then to the side. By intention. The sports commissars consider a disqualification, but then decide for 10 seconds to stop and go. But it can still do something.
The emotions were high. Not only in the racing cars, but also in the spectators' places. The duel of the two World Cup contestants will be fought with ever harder bandages, and in Baku it ended for the first time with a clash. To be exact: It came two times to the contact between Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel . And both collisions caused hot discussions during and after the race.
It happened in the 19th round. The race management has just informed the drivers of the re-start after a SafetyCar phase. It was already the second neutralisation of the race. Hamilton comes with Vettel in the wake from turn 15. The Mercedes driver sees the SafetyCar 150 meters ahead and goes from the gas to keep distance to Bernd Mayländer's Mercedes AMG GTS. Vettel accelerates and lands in the rear of the Mercedes of his World Cup rival.
For Vettel it looks like a brake test. "The leader dictates the speed . We came out of the corner and then he braked so hard that I could not stop in time. He has braked, where one actually accelerates. "Then the emotions hit high waves. The Ferrari driver pulls to the left of Hamilton , makes unfriendly hand signals and directs his Ferrari so violently into the Mercedes that the red car with the number 5 with the front wheels lifts. Hamilton complains: "It was not fair play." Vettel saw nothing forbidden in his action. Hamilton always within 3 km / h
The race management and the sports commissaries already. They immediately conduct an investigation into the case. 32 minutes later, Paul Gutjahr, Enzo Spano, Anar Shukurov, and Danny Sullivan, the rider of the rally, take their verdict: Hamilton remains unmolested. Vettel must go to a 10-second penalty stop to the pits. This is the second highest penalty before a disqualification.
In the world of motorsports an outcry of indignation goes through the net. "There has been criticism around the world. An ex-driver wrote to me that the punishment was much too mild, "one of the sports commissioners told us. Vettel can not understand the severity of the sentence: "I did not do anything forbidden. Ten seconds were too much. "
FIA race director Charlie Whiting and the sport commissaries have not made the task easy. Data and radio spotting had to be looked at, TV pictures from all angles were studied. AutoMotor and sport learned that Hamilton had the same speed during all three re-starts on the sloping straight between bends 15 and 16 at the accident site within 3 km / h . He always went there from the gas, never accelerated, but also never braked. "The warming of the brakes Lewis has always done before turn 15," we hear from FIA circles.
Behind the Safety Car is that the leader determines the pace. However, he can not brake the car abruptly and accelerate again. Since Hamilton did everything right, he was out of the tail. Vettel did not want to leave the second re-start as much as the first, and accelerated out of turn 15 to stay at Hamilton. That's why the idle gait of the opponent had to look like a brake test.
Is Todt calling the international sports court?
The sports commissaries also listened to the radio messages and registered, the Vettel on the radio angrily exclaimed: "This was a brake test, a brake test." This probably saved the World Cup leader from a higher penalty. The referees realised that the reaction of Vettel was based on a false assumption. "What she did not excuse. You can not drive another driver intentionally into the car. It does not work, "Niki Lauda said.
Team chief Toto Wolff believes that Vettel will think differently about the action. A Mercedes man says: "In England they have just locked a driver in a junior form for a year because he intentionally caused an accident. 10 seconds Stop and Go is also available when you drive into the pits when the pit lane is closed. "
Vettel got the 10-second stop-and-go penalty for two reasons. Firstly, there is no dedicated rule that assigns a deliberately caused collision to a particular penalty. So it was a matter of discretion. Secondly, one was afraid to intervene with a draconian penalty too much into the World Cup. A sports commissary tells us: "It was a narrow decision: Vettel is haarscharf past a black flag." Thus a disqualification.
Vettel got an additional 3 penalty points. He has 9 points in the criminal register. They are composed as follows: 2 in Silverstone, 2 in Malaysia, 2 in Mexico and now 3 in Baku. Another offence, and the Ferrari driver has to put up a race. Vettel can not allow anything at GP Austria. In Silverstone, 2 points are lost.
Still, Vettel is not quite off the hook. It could happen to him the same as last year after GP Mexico. Vettel threatened a complaint before the International Sports Court of the FIA because of his rude sparks against Max Verstappen and Charlie Whiting. The four-time world champion came out with a blue eye only because he quickly apologised to Vettel and Whiting.
The FIA justified the act of mercy as follows: "On the basis of his sincere apology and his great commitment, the FIA President has decided not to initiate any disciplinary action against Mr Vettel and not to bring the case before the FIA International Court of Justice." "In the case of similar incidents, as in Mexico, disciplinary measures will be taken in the future and the case brought before the international courts of the FIA." There is only one person who can appeal to the new sports case: FIA race director Jean Todt.
Anyone else think this track needs to sort the track access/removing vehicles from track a bit better? Seemed to be ages to get a truck on, then it sat there for a while with blokes waving their arms around mentally at each other.. Whilst removing debris they seemed to have to run miles to get off the track.
Monaco seems to have this sorted.
Monaco seems to have this sorted.
SystemParanoia said:
VladD said:
<snip>
The FIA ??justified the act of mercy as follows: "On the basis of his sincere apology and his great commitment
Are you fThe FIA ??justified the act of mercy as follows: "On the basis of his sincere apology and his great commitment
king kidding me ?! He still maintains the stance that he didn't do anything wrong.London424 said:
defblade said:
S0 What said:
Just a thought on the 1st safety car, DKs car had to cross the track to be removed so a VSC would not have been sufficiant as it would have left the field spread out lowering the available time to cross the track hanging from a recovery crane, hense a full safety car was the only option,
I was thinking much the same as that when Lewis/commentators were asking about not using VSC for clearing the various debris... if I was a marshal having to scurry about the track looking for small bits of CF, I'd rather all the cars came past in a train and then gave me a minute or so of clear time to look/pick/run about the place, rather than a swerving car still doing a fair nip every few seconds.TBH DC said it on CH4 and loads of sheep on here just followed his lead, it was obv that a full SC was called for both times, although i agree they took too long, next year they need to import more marchals not less from Monaco.
As to the FIA not wanting to medal in the championship race can i point out Sebs 10s SAG was only anounced after Lewis was told he had to pit to fix the headrest, maybe, just maybe ? the FIA hastyly decided to even out Lewises bad luck and NOT let Seb gain an advantage after his roadrage incident? Ok pushing it a bit i know but hey i have an armchair so i'm fully qualified to talk s
te 
it's brown and swivles (the chair not my opinions) well Ok maybe both 
I would also like to point out that before Lewis ASKED (not demanded) but asked if Bottas could slow down to help him, he quite clearly said " if Bottas is not racing anyone in front we should ,,,"
Not a fanboy just like to put things straight.
swisstoni said:
Munter said:
BoRED S2upid said:
I think if he had damaged hamiltons car and affected his race Vetel would have been disqualified <snip>
Do we know that the shove up the back didn't damage the back of Hamilton's "headrest"?It was being patched up during the Red Flag period. (Under close scrutiny from Ferrari 'observers' I noticed).
Hamilton seemed to lack ultimate pace after that, to me.
I saw the Mercedes patch up work as part repair, part FIA message - in a 'look how Vettel has knackered our car'.
oyster said:
swisstoni said:
Munter said:
BoRED S2upid said:
I think if he had damaged hamiltons car and affected his race Vetel would have been disqualified <snip>
Do we know that the shove up the back didn't damage the back of Hamilton's "headrest"?It was being patched up during the Red Flag period. (Under close scrutiny from Ferrari 'observers' I noticed).
Hamilton seemed to lack ultimate pace after that, to me.
I saw the Mercedes patch up work as part repair, part FIA message - in a 'look how Vettel has knackered our car'.
I think the headrest is just one of those things. I can't see the Vettel impact causing it. It either wasn't fitted properly and was replaced as a precaution or is just broke during fitting. I'm sure we'll find out over before the next GP.
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