The Official 2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**

[NRS]

carl_w said:

NRS said:

carl_w said:

ash73 said:

If they said he didn't lift "entirely" it means he DID lift somewhat, otherwise they would just say he did not lift.

Completely neutral to either driver here, although I thought that Vettel acted like a petulant fool in this instance, but the wording is interesting to say the least.

Very different comparison, but with logic like that I presume you'd blame rape victims?

WT actual F?

I was just pointing out that the wording is interesting, not apportioning any blame.

I was comparing logic, not the situation. People like Ash are saying that Hamilton is allowed to do what he wants as lead car, BUT it was still his fault for the crash because he should have sped up. Yet it was completely up to him - hence it is victim blaming (of which rape is the one talked about in society most, hence the comparison). It is the same logic not situation - it's not his fault yet it is. If Hamilton hadn't been in that place at that time it would not have happened - thus it was Hamilton's fault. Or presumably if someone is driving on the road and they come to an NSL section the person behind would be ok to crash into the back of them because they would expect the person in front to speed up, even if they didn't?

[Hungrymc]

InductionRoar said:

You do realize that there are two Mercedes drivers I assume? Bottas set his fastest lap of the race on the final lap whilst chasing down Stroll and I am guessing that was at least partially due to an engine setting that had not previously been used. Clearly there is a lot more performance potential in the Mercedes power unit that we don't see until it is needed. The only reason Lewis didn't pass Sebastian on the last lap is because he wasn't quick enough. Maybe that was because his diffuser was damaged, maybe not.

People moan when F1 is boring. People moan when F1 is exciting. People like moaning.

Sorry, I'm not following. (Merc drivers and fastest lap)

Seb set the fastest lap of the race, only a few hundredths ahead of Lewis. What does that tell us? Nothing other than under those conditions, Seb and the Ferrari were quicker.

I agree that it may or may not have been anything to do with the damage. I was really only being a bit sarcastic about the accident and about the comment that the Merc had showed its pace - which it might have done, but that pace over a lap wasn't actually as quick as the Ferrari.

[Mark-C]

pgh said:

ash73 said:

I know Lewis fans are a bit thick

I've loved watching formula 1 since I was a small boy (and Nigel Mansel was a new entrant). I've maintained my interest ever since, even through the "surprise, Schumacher wins again" era.

One of the reasons the sport has held my interest for so long is the lack of combative tribalism that is often seen in other sports, particularly football. It saddens me to see a statement like the one I've quoted from another F1 fan.

If this forum had an ignore option, I'd have turned it on for you, thus freeing myself from reading such childishness again in future. There's no need for such nastiness over a sport which we all enjoy.

I'm with you on this - it's hard work wading through the nonsense to find the good posts that add to the discourse. They are still here but hard to find in amongst the childish stuff.

[hairyben]

pgh said:

ash73 said:

I know Lewis fans are a bit thick

I've loved watching formula 1 since I was a small boy (and Nigel Mansel was a new entrant). I've maintained my interest ever since, even through the "surprise, Schumacher wins again" era.

One of the reasons the sport has held my interest for so long is the lack of combative tribalism that is often seen in other sports, particularly football. It saddens me to see a statement like the one I've quoted from another F1 fan.

If this forum had an ignore option, I'd have turned it on for you, thus freeing myself from reading such childishness again in future. There's no need for such nastiness over a sport which we all enjoy.

To be honest from the day Lewis jumped into the mclaren a lot of people seemed to have a deep personal issue with him, and while hes matured from that awkward fuzzy haired kid into the very different cool operator he is today he still really polarises people, insofar as many respect/admire him, some might criticise in a valid way but for many he seems to trigger some way-beyond-logic emotional~tourettes response.

I had to leave the forum I was a part of as the fayboy/hater nonsense just got a bit stupid and completely overshadowed the proper talk, pistonheads -perhaps with its lack of animated avatars and suchlike- seemed to appeal to a slightly more considered set. I think twitter and such cop a lot of the nonsense these days.

[InductionRoar]

Hungrymc said:

InductionRoar said:

You do realize that there are two Mercedes drivers I assume? Bottas set his fastest lap of the race on the final lap whilst chasing down Stroll and I am guessing that was at least partially due to an engine setting that had not previously been used. Clearly there is a lot more performance potential in the Mercedes power unit that we don't see until it is needed. The only reason Lewis didn't pass Sebastian on the last lap is because he wasn't quick enough. Maybe that was because his diffuser was damaged, maybe not.

People moan when F1 is boring. People moan when F1 is exciting. People like moaning.

Sorry, I'm not following. (Merc drivers and fastest lap)

Seb set the fastest lap of the race, only a few hundredths ahead of Lewis. What does that tell us? Nothing other than under those conditions, Seb and the Ferrari were quicker.

I agree that it may or may not have been anything to do with the damage. I was really only being a bit sarcastic about the accident and about the comment that the Merc had showed its pace - which it might have done, but that pace over a lap wasn't actually as quick as the Ferrari.

I agree, Sebastian was quicker than Lewis if you look at headline fastest laps, the same as Perez was fastest at Monaco, although I don't think too much can be drawn from such statistics. Pole position however, is a different story. Both Lewis and Sebastian's quickest lap times were set towards the end of the race, whilst Lewis was in the dirty air following Sebastian. It is widely acknowledged that the Mercedes suffers more in dirty air than most, so this could go some way to explain his marginally slower lap time. I would have fully expected Lewis to have driven off into the distance had Sebastian emerged from the pits behind him as he would have had clean air.

[Hungrymc]

InductionRoar said:

Sensible stuff.

Agree all of that.

[Dr Z]

InductionRoar said:

Hungrymc said:

InductionRoar said:

You do realize that there are two Mercedes drivers I assume? Bottas set his fastest lap of the race on the final lap whilst chasing down Stroll and I am guessing that was at least partially due to an engine setting that had not previously been used. Clearly there is a lot more performance potential in the Mercedes power unit that we don't see until it is needed. The only reason Lewis didn't pass Sebastian on the last lap is because he wasn't quick enough. Maybe that was because his diffuser was damaged, maybe not.

People moan when F1 is boring. People moan when F1 is exciting. People like moaning.

Sorry, I'm not following. (Merc drivers and fastest lap)

Seb set the fastest lap of the race, only a few hundredths ahead of Lewis. What does that tell us? Nothing other than under those conditions, Seb and the Ferrari were quicker.

I agree that it may or may not have been anything to do with the damage. I was really only being a bit sarcastic about the accident and about the comment that the Merc had showed its pace - which it might have done, but that pace over a lap wasn't actually as quick as the Ferrari.

I agree, Sebastian was quicker than Lewis if you look at headline fastest laps, the same as Perez was fastest at Monaco, although I don't think too much can be drawn from such statistics. Pole position however, is a different story. Both Lewis and Sebastian's quickest lap times were set towards the end of the race, whilst Lewis was in the dirty air following Sebastian. It is widely acknowledged that the Mercedes suffers more in dirty air than most, so this could go some way to explain his marginally slower lap time. I would have fully expected Lewis to have driven off into the distance had Sebastian emerged from the pits behind him as he would have had clean air.

Vettel was killing it in sector 2, having to pull half a second on Hamilton through there regularly to avoid Hamilton just driving past him on the long straight. Hamilton was gaining anywhere from 4 to 6 tenths just on that straight alone with his engine turned up. Thought it was a great drive by Vettel, shame that incident overshadowed it.

[deadslow]

Vaud said:

InductionRoar said:

People moan when F1 is boring. People moan when F1 is exciting. People like moaning.

I loved the race. I think the Seb thing is a storm in a tea cup but if gives people something to moan about.

.

The race was an absolute belter. Me and my missus went from edge of the seat to laughing out loud.

As for LH/SV; they are big boys. Folks shouldn't cry over it. A little argy-bargy has always been part of the sport at their level.

Shaping up to be the best F1 year for ages.

[ZX10R NIN]

Looks like the FIA are going to take another look at it they've just announced an investigation the result of which will be decided before the Austrian GP.

[HTP99]

ZX10R NIN said:

Looks like the FIA are going to take another look at it they've just announced an investigation the result of which will be decided before the Austrian GP.

I wonder if public opinion has prompted this.

[Tyre Tread]

HTP99 said:

ZX10R NIN said:

Looks like the FIA are going to take another look at it they've just announced an investigation the result of which will be decided before the Austrian GP.

I wonder if public opinion has prompted this.

Or Vettel's stance and reluctance to concede he did anything wrong.

[HustleRussell]

ZX10R NIN said:

Looks like the FIA are going to take another look at it they've just announced an investigation the result of which will be decided before the Austrian GP.

If nothing else this might make Seb sweat a bit and think twice before doing something similar again. I suppose we can expect a mealy mouthed apology before Austria?

It was outrageous. I've never seen anything like it.

[ZX10R NIN]

All of the above for me I'd have left it to be fair I don't see it as a big deal, also because of those incidents we had a great podium & a bit of a change so I was happy with the results.

For me Lewis got a bit cute as was his right SB got caught out then had a meltdown & they touched wheel to wheel at low speed (had it been high speed then I'd say the hyperbole is justified) both were miffed Lewis more so after he realised he had to stop (I'd have been put out too) SB knew what was coming all in all it worked out.

I also think that when starting behind the safety & the lights go off they should hold a set speed with no weaving allowed with no accelerating until they a certain point on the track with the leader controlling this, they use this acceleration control system in the states & V8 Supercars & it seems to work well.

[Hungrymc]

Dr Z said:

Vettel was killing it in sector 2, having to pull half a second on Hamilton through there regularly to avoid Hamilton just driving past him on the long straight. Hamilton was gaining anywhere from 4 to 6 tenths just on that straight alone with his engine turned up. Thought it was a great drive by Vettel, shame that incident overshadowed it.

Kind of agree, and yet Lewis lapped faster than Bottas in the closing stages (I think Valteri's fastest lap was 3 or 4 laps later than Lewis's?). We also know (I think) that the Ferrari was better through the corners (either by set up for the track or by outright design) and the Merc quicker on the straights but is poor in dirty air, and not being able to follow the very fast and well driven Ferrari close enough on the lead up to T16. Valteri passing stroll was a little different as that isn't a particularly quick car through the corners and was ultimately a much slower car (fastest race lap some 1.5 seconds slower than Seb).

My take always from the weekend were that the Ferrari and Merc are still very close (On this circuit with near 30 seconds of WOT from T16 - The Merc should have been quicker in clean air and it was in quali but once again, it wasn't so visible in the race).
Great drives by the top 3. Really strong recoveries from DR and VB. Plus a very strong drive admidst all the pressure and chaos of SCs and red flags by LS. Seb was very quick in spells and really pushed hard in that last spell (the incident off course is a blot on his copy book). And Lewis actually drove very well and had the race under control admidst the chaos until the headrest clanger.

I don't like all the controversy and all the stoppages, but I think there were loads of indicators that this will be a very close battle all season long. And, although Seb was a wally, it was a brain fade in the heat of the moment. I think he was fortunate with the penalty but I don't want to see further consequences now. Can't wait to see them go at it again.

[Vaud]

HustleRussell said:

It was outrageous. I've never seen anything like it.

Then you can't have been watching F1 for long.

How about Schumacher's move on Barrichello at Hungary where he nearly drove him into the wall? At full racing speed?

Or Senna on Prost?

etc

[anonymous-user]

FIA have announced they're looking into the incident. This is what happened with Schumacher in 1997...

Imagine the fall out if Vettel has all his points this year removed.

Ferrari will threaten to walk.

[Vaud]

janesmith1950 said:

FIA have announced they're looking into the incident. This is what happened with Schumacher in 1997...

Imagine the fall out if Vettel has all his points this year removed.

Ferrari will threaten to walk.

1-3 race ban, suspended for x races, at a guess. Punishment but no immediate outcome.

[johnxjsc1985]

Cant see anyone standing up to Ferrari result and points will stand other than a "naughty boy " statement.

[andy_s]

ZX10R NIN said:

I also think that when starting behind the safety & the lights go off they should hold a set speed with no weaving allowed with no accelerating until they a certain point on the track with the leader controlling this, they use this acceleration control system in the states & V8 Supercars & it seems to work well.

Takes a small element of race craft out of it I think, sure we won't be too affected but watching them biding time and judging the best time to spool up is an interesting feature of the race I think. Certainly made it so last week!

[768]

Vaud said:

HustleRussell said:

It was outrageous. I've never seen anything like it.

Then you can't have been watching F1 for long.

How about Schumacher's move on Barrichello at Hungary where he nearly drove him into the wall? At full racing speed?

They were racing and Schumacher didn't deliberately drive into him. It might be worse, certainly potentially could have been, but it's not really the same sort of thing at all.

To be fair, I'm not sure I've seen anything quite like it on the track either. Schumacher trying to find Coulthard in the pits was about as close an incident as I've seen to it.