The Official 2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**

[Vaud]

Adrian W said:

ukaskew said:

Indeed, especially as the actual reason for Vettel's 10 second penalty was 'potentially dangerous' driving.

I'd love to know what constitutes actual honest-to-goodness dangerous driving.

For a start why bother racing your opponent, just crash into him on the warm up, cant be considered dangerous now, we have a ruling

As I understand it they focus more on the outcome of the action than the action itself.

[Vaud]

Racing Rod said:

I have watched the clip a number of times and if I could watch it in slow motion or clip by clip I suspect that Vettel was slightly ahead of Hamilton be it a centimetre or two when he turned in on him. Does this amount to overtaking under yellows/safety car ??

It doesn't matter to some extent. The race results have been published.

[Vaud]

Doink said:

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/10927676/az...

The FIA could still take further action against Vettel under article 151c for bringing the sport into disrepute and the penalties could be limitless

Come on FIA do the right thing, you've already proven Lewis did absolutely nothing wrong, he neither brake tested nor accelerated so this cleary points all the blame should be on Vettel, IF there we some anomalies in Lewis's data you could perhaps argue Vettels case but its as clear as day Lewis did nothing different to the other SC starts

If it was at racing speed, then maybe it would be worth them looking at.

All a fuss over a minor transgression in my view.

[Vaud]

Racing Rod said:

Vaud said:

Racing Rod said:

I have watched the clip a number of times and if I could watch it in slow motion or clip by clip I suspect that Vettel was slightly ahead of Hamilton be it a centimetre or two when he turned in on him. Does this amount to overtaking under yellows/safety car ??

It doesn't matter to some extent. The race results have been published.

I may be wrong but I thought that under blue book rules a further penalty can be set if later/reviewed/missed evidence confirms an infringement. Putting to one side the rear ending and then the turn in "bumping" move, the possibility of a technical overtake can be measured and if confirmed can be a retrospective penalty. Overtaking to any degree under yellows/safety car, unless proved to be the only measure that avoids a further collision is a major no no !!

On that basis, the rules also say "Drivers must not drive unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner that could be deemed potentially dangerous to other competitors."

Hamilton was allowed to back the pack up, but it could equally be argued that he was a touch slow.

To your point, I can't find a definition of "overtake" - but it says "overtake" in the rules would probably imply that the whole car, or the majority of the car would have to pass.

I have seen lots of people being passed at the start of a warm up lap and along side during safety cars - with no penalty applied. I think the stewards show some pragmatism.

[Vaud]

Roofless Toothless said:

It's an interesting question as to what constitutes an overtake in yellow flag situations. In football the whole of the ball has to be over the line to score a goal. But in Motorsport if one car has its nose just inches ahead crossing the finish line it gets to win the race.

Surely there has to be a definition somewhere in the rule book?

I can't find one. But not everything has to be defined, some terms can just be "as the word would normally mean"... e.g. overtake - catch up with and pass while travelling in the same direction

Pass would mean the whole car, otherwise the regulation would be more explicit about cars staying in single file? I think there is an acceptance that that they will move alongside during a safety car period as drivers work the brakes/tyres AND stay within the proscribed distance from the car in front..

[Vaud]

hairyben said:

Ive never seen anything like "that" in the 25+ years ive been watching and thats included as we all know plenty of deliberate and/or avoidable crashes.

I think many of Schumachers were worse. 1994 is debatable (still). 1997 was clear cut. His move against Barichello in 2010, etc.

This one wasn't even at racing speed.

[Vaud]

schmunk said:

Vaud said:

This one wasn't even at racing speed.

...which makes it all the more obvious that it was a deliberate collision!

I don't recall saying otherwise. My point being more that the stewards punish based more on outcome these days, rightly or wrongly, and it was by any measure a low speed bump.

[Vaud]

SystemParanoia said:

VladD said:

<snip>

The FIA ??justified the act of mercy as follows: "On the basis of his sincere apology and his great commitment

Are you fking kidding me ?! He still maintains the stance that he didn't do anything wrong.

No, that is the quote from the FIA after Mexico last year, not this incident.

[Vaud]

Sa Calobra said:

There's only one thing that I'll remember from this race, the fk up of the basics of fitting driver protection on the car that cost Mercedes the victory.

That was inexcusable. Even Haas wouldn't do this as newcomers.

Quite, they just can't get their brakes working consistently after 1.5 seasons, plus huge input from Ferrari...

[Vaud]

pgh said:

S0 What said:

he did NOT tell the team anything, he ASKED if Bottas should be backed up

And due to the way he seems to be able to do no right in the eyes of some F1 fans, if he hadn't asked it would likely be a sign that he's never thinking about the bigger picture. A thinking driver would have asked if his teammate could come into play etc.

It was a smart question - he wanted to know if Bottas could be brought into play for dirty air, the team said no, he was after Stroll.

No issue that I see.

Another very assured drive from Bottas.

[Vaud]

Doink said:

Paddy power have offered £1m to charity for Lewis and Seb to have a boxing match, my moneys on Lewis, done a bit of boxing in his time

I'm not sure that wouldn't be a case of bringing the sport into disrepute....

[Vaud]

johnxjsc1985 said:

Whatever happened to gentleman racers ?

Died with the ability to place multiple cameras around a circuits and playback quickly to a mass audience.

I don't think what we saw is new.; the "gentleman racers" are probably a rose tinted view of times past, fondly but misremembered.

For instance, the drivers that in an era of low safety - drove past very recently crashed cars (in some cases on fire) and did not stop to help (though some drivers did)

[Vaud]

Otispunkmeyer said:

FI are in danger of boiling over I think. They've got a good car and two evenly matched, fast drivers. If they don't get a handle on managing them they're going to be tripping over each other in more races. Their stock is high right now. If I was going to buy an F1 team, it'd be FI.

They certainly get the most from a (relatively) small budget. FI and Sauber are both apparently for sale if you have the funds...

[Vaud]

Ructions said:

Think Villeneuve is on the money here

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-vettel-hamil...

I agree. Rent a gob has it right for once.

[Vaud]

VladD said:

Except he hasn't.

In sentiment, I think he has...

[Vaud]

VladD said:

In sentiment, yes, I agree. He's just got some of the facts wrong.

Well, it is JV...

[Vaud]

HustleRussell said:

ash73 said:

Apparently this is what the FIA means by "not lifting off entirely", the HUD shows zero throttle and brakes applied after the apex:

https://streamable.com/phz5p

ash73 said:

1g

And at that speed (30mph) the aero would have no effect, so the deceleration would (effectively be) just from the powertrain friction.

[Vaud]

InductionRoar said:

It won't though. We saw how quick Mercedes were on the last lap when they turned the wick up.

So why didn't Lewis catch and pass Vettel?

[Vaud]

InductionRoar said:

People moan when F1 is boring. People moan when F1 is exciting. People like moaning.

I loved the race. I think the Seb thing is a storm in a tea cup but if gives people something to moan about.

I'm loving F1 and excited for the future of it.

Oh, and I'm off to Baku next year.

April. Slim chance of a wet race as well...

[Vaud]

HustleRussell said:

It was outrageous. I've never seen anything like it.

Then you can't have been watching F1 for long.

How about Schumacher's move on Barrichello at Hungary where he nearly drove him into the wall? At full racing speed?

Or Senna on Prost?

etc