F1 owners say UK paywall TV deal they have inherited is detr
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
Guess what - I'm not watching it.
And Is F1 discussion on this forum restricted to what happened last weekend only or are we not allowed discuss the vast and long history of both F1 and Grand Prix racing?
If we aren't, then that is a dreadful indictment on who posts on here.
Well no, it is generally restricted to talking about the original question that the original poster starts. If you want to talk about those other things it's usually best to start a new topic. And Is F1 discussion on this forum restricted to what happened last weekend only or are we not allowed discuss the vast and long history of both F1 and Grand Prix racing?
If we aren't, then that is a dreadful indictment on who posts on here.
Aha - so you do believe in restricting the breadth of the discourse.
I thought so.
Everything has to be in its own little box. Don't dare step outside it or suffer the wrath of those who only want to talk about what the current F1 scene is up to.
Maybe you are correct. Maybe having a view that takes history and context into account - and a love for the legacy of the sport - has no place in modern F1 discussion.
If that is the case, then you are 100% correct - I have no interest in that one dimensional world at all.
I thought so.
Everything has to be in its own little box. Don't dare step outside it or suffer the wrath of those who only want to talk about what the current F1 scene is up to.
Maybe you are correct. Maybe having a view that takes history and context into account - and a love for the legacy of the sport - has no place in modern F1 discussion.
If that is the case, then you are 100% correct - I have no interest in that one dimensional world at all.
London424 said:
So don't watch it? It's not a difficult decision. If you clearly don't enjoy it, vote with your feet. Stop pissing and moaning about 'the good old days'.
I really wonder about the mental processes of people who can't make such simple decisions.
There never was a good old days. It's always been open to criticism for lack of excitement. There were boring races in the 60s, 70s, 80s etc. There have been seasons when there were few memorable races. If we go back 8 seasons, most have been close, with the WDC not being decided until the last race on occasion, and once in the last race, on the last lap and on the last corner. I really wonder about the mental processes of people who can't make such simple decisions.
Domination by one team is the norm but normally there have been battles in that team, Ferrari and Schumacher being the exception.
At times, politics or bias has decided races and championships.
Given the history of motor racing, in many way these are the good old days. The problem is, I think, that it was dying as a sport and as fun. Its attraction in these good old days is ephemeral. My fear is that the image will collapse. If that happens the whole thing will fall apart and what is left will be residue.
There's nothing wrong with the sport at the moment. It's still great fun, inspiring, a dual in the sun and sand. But it needs to change, and this has been apparent for some years, if it is to stay relevant. There were no good old days that would be applicable now so there's no reversion therapy.
I'm off to GFoS this weekend. It will be packed with young as well as old. The market it there, it just needs to be sold to.
I think that F1 is being in danger of being eclipsed by sport car racing, see WEC and Blancpain GT series, as two examples, if they don't pull their finger out, and get F1 back on course.
Come to think of it, back then I found Le Mans and Group C at least as good as F1, now they are clearly better.
They could make F1 more exiting by making it easier to overtake: reduce the aero downforce drasticly, with more mechanical downforce.
Then you don't have the problem with dirty air from the car in front destroying the downforce of the car behind, making it very difficult, when not impossible, to overtake. And without having to use artificial methods like DRS.
It's not rocket science. But I'm not holding my breath: every time the FIA changes the rules it gets worse instead of better. Instead of simpler, more complex, instead of cheaper, more expensive. And to crown it all, this politically correct green
b
ks with energy recuperation etc......
Come to think of it, back then I found Le Mans and Group C at least as good as F1, now they are clearly better.
They could make F1 more exiting by making it easier to overtake: reduce the aero downforce drasticly, with more mechanical downforce.
Then you don't have the problem with dirty air from the car in front destroying the downforce of the car behind, making it very difficult, when not impossible, to overtake. And without having to use artificial methods like DRS.
It's not rocket science. But I'm not holding my breath: every time the FIA changes the rules it gets worse instead of better. Instead of simpler, more complex, instead of cheaper, more expensive. And to crown it all, this politically correct green
b
ks with energy recuperation etc......C70R said:
thegreenhell said:
KobayashiMaru86 said:
Many of the current racers watched it on normal TV when they were kids and inspired them to do it. If it goes all paid then kids won't see it. If BTCC went behind a paywall it would kill it.
All the rich kids whose parents can afford to take them karting can also afford the Sky subscription to watch F1. Professional motor racing has always been an elitist sport, and this will just reinforce that.In all honesty, that comment is just about the stupidest thing I've read on PH. And moreover, for whom is £60-odd a month a massive burden?
The licence fee (to get the C4 coverage and the previous ITV/BBC coverage) is approx. £10 a month.
Even funnier is that whilst expressing an inability to comprehend that £60 pcm is a lot of money, you refer to another comment as being the stupidest thing on PH!!
London424 said:
Lack of variety of tech - When was the last tine in F1 we ever saw something significantly different? 20 years? 30?
I think there's been some amazing technologies deployed recently.- McLaren's f-duct was brilliant, just for sheer cheekiness in finding a loophole and maximising it.
- The hybrid power units. I miss the noise of the old engines but you can't help but be amazed to get more horsepower whilst using 50% fuel. That is a staggering development.
- Reliability. To get a single engine to last 4/5 races (with more power than ever) is impressive.
oyster said:
There's something seriously wrong with your perspective if you think £60 a month is anything other than a massive burden for watching a few hours of televised sport.
That's exactly the same argument as people trotted out for getting Amazon Prime in order to watch The Grand Tour. It presupposes that the money is being spent wholly and exclusively on that. You don't subscribe to Sky *just* to get F1 and you don't subscribe to Amazon Prime *just* to get The Grand Tour.
And if F1 is your only reason for wanting Sky then you can get NowTV day passes. A NowTV Sky Sports Day Pass is £6.99 and a week pass is £10.99
I was going to write a reply to Eric's continuing infantile rants, but i really can't be bothered.
He has decided to give up the sport, yet is still here posting his usual drivel and bile. I can only assume to try and spread negativity and his own misery.
Its little more than trolling to be honest, he's deliberately posting to ensure he gets a reaction so he can continue his little tirade.
Pretty pathetic that he's got nothing better to do with his time to be honest.
No-one ever said F1 was perfect but its far better than he tries to make out.
He has decided to give up the sport, yet is still here posting his usual drivel and bile. I can only assume to try and spread negativity and his own misery.
Its little more than trolling to be honest, he's deliberately posting to ensure he gets a reaction so he can continue his little tirade.
Pretty pathetic that he's got nothing better to do with his time to be honest.
No-one ever said F1 was perfect but its far better than he tries to make out.
Crafty_ said:
I was going to write a reply to Eric's continuing infantile rants, but i really can't be bothered.
He has decided to give up the sport, yet is still here posting his usual drivel and bile. I can only assume to try and spread negativity and his own misery.
Its little more than trolling to be honest, he's deliberately posting to ensure he gets a reaction so he can continue his little tirade.
Pretty pathetic that he's got nothing better to do with his time to be honest.
No-one ever said F1 was perfect but its far better than he tries to make out.
What a nasty little post.He has decided to give up the sport, yet is still here posting his usual drivel and bile. I can only assume to try and spread negativity and his own misery.
Its little more than trolling to be honest, he's deliberately posting to ensure he gets a reaction so he can continue his little tirade.
Pretty pathetic that he's got nothing better to do with his time to be honest.
No-one ever said F1 was perfect but its far better than he tries to make out.
London424 said:
Lack of variety of tech - When was the last tine in F1 we ever saw something significantly different? 20 years? 30?
More recently than that (blown diffusers, F-duct, etc.); the problem is that such things either immediately get banned or get adopted by everyone else, thus negating the advantage. kambites said:
More recently than that (blown diffusers, F-duct, etc.); the problem is that such things either immediately get banned or get adopted by everyone else, thus negating the advantage.
And not forgetting McLaren's 2nd brake pedal too. Or Mercedes innovative turbocharger design in the current engines.
I think there is an awful lot of Confirmation Bias going on here. People want to see lack of innovation so don't see amy innovation (or overlook what there is). Or want to see that F1 is in decline so see it in decline. Or want to think it is a procession so don't see any overtaking.
Personally I still enjoy F1 and don't really feel the need to justify that either way.
jbudgie said:
Crafty_ said:
I was going to write a reply to Eric's continuing infantile rants, but i really can't be bothered.
He has decided to give up the sport, yet is still here posting his usual drivel and bile. I can only assume to try and spread negativity and his own misery.
Its little more than trolling to be honest, he's deliberately posting to ensure he gets a reaction so he can continue his little tirade.
Pretty pathetic that he's got nothing better to do with his time to be honest.
No-one ever said F1 was perfect but its far better than he tries to make out.
What a nasty little post.He has decided to give up the sport, yet is still here posting his usual drivel and bile. I can only assume to try and spread negativity and his own misery.
Its little more than trolling to be honest, he's deliberately posting to ensure he gets a reaction so he can continue his little tirade.
Pretty pathetic that he's got nothing better to do with his time to be honest.
No-one ever said F1 was perfect but its far better than he tries to make out.
ClockworkCupcake said:
kambites said:
More recently than that (blown diffusers, F-duct, etc.); the problem is that such things either immediately get banned or get adopted by everyone else, thus negating the advantage.
And not forgetting McLaren's 2nd brake pedal too. Or Mercedes innovative turbocharger design in the current engines.
I think there is an awful lot of Confirmation Bias going on here. People want to see lack of innovation so don't see amy innovation (or overlook what there is). Or want to see that F1 is in decline so see it in decline. Or want to think it is a procession so don't see any overtaking.
Personally I still enjoy F1 and don't really feel the need to justify that either way.
t and make the cars sound good again. And change the downforce bias from aerodynamic to mechanical to make it easier to overtake. In other words, bring the excitement back.I hate to take the bait, but OK...
Eric Mc said:
The obvious aspect is the long decline off in TV viewing figures.
The other aspects are way too numerous to mention but I'll have a go -
lack of genuine competitiveness - discussed at length, but we've always had dominant cars/drivers
lack of variety of technology - the past few seasons (KERS etc.) have seen the biggest jump in tech in a long time
lack of noise (a recent backward step) - agreed wholeheartedly
poor driver sportsmanship and ethics (something that's been in decline for a while) - Suzuka 1990 was 27 years ago
lack of interest in the fans by the teams - has this ever been a big deal?
the peddling of exclusivity - F1 has always been glamorous and elitist
concentration on vacuous celebrity - growing the sport (and viewership - your yardstick of success) is always going to result in increased focus on the 'personalities', as with any sport
events held in places lacking motor sport (or even car) culture - agree somewhat, but we can't ignore the overriding idea of growing into new markets (it's the nature of growing the sport)
the sheer dullness of the cars - they are approaching the performance of the '04 cars with less outright power, which I find exciting
the drift towards poor access on TV - it's £60/month, which isn't a huge amount in the grand scheme of things (people would willingly pay £20-30 for direct access according to many other threads)
There are loads more, but I'm sure you all know what they are.
Essentially, the sport appears to have changed from your vision of F1. I'm sad for you, but it doesn't mean that it's going to hell in a handcart...The other aspects are way too numerous to mention but I'll have a go -
lack of genuine competitiveness - discussed at length, but we've always had dominant cars/drivers
lack of variety of technology - the past few seasons (KERS etc.) have seen the biggest jump in tech in a long time
lack of noise (a recent backward step) - agreed wholeheartedly
poor driver sportsmanship and ethics (something that's been in decline for a while) - Suzuka 1990 was 27 years ago
lack of interest in the fans by the teams - has this ever been a big deal?
the peddling of exclusivity - F1 has always been glamorous and elitist
concentration on vacuous celebrity - growing the sport (and viewership - your yardstick of success) is always going to result in increased focus on the 'personalities', as with any sport
events held in places lacking motor sport (or even car) culture - agree somewhat, but we can't ignore the overriding idea of growing into new markets (it's the nature of growing the sport)
the sheer dullness of the cars - they are approaching the performance of the '04 cars with less outright power, which I find exciting
the drift towards poor access on TV - it's £60/month, which isn't a huge amount in the grand scheme of things (people would willingly pay £20-30 for direct access according to many other threads)
There are loads more, but I'm sure you all know what they are.
London424 said:
Eric Mc said:
Yes - you are perfectly entitled to accept and enjoy the emaciated fare that now pretends to be the best motor sport in the world.
Yesterday's events only emphasise what a pile of tripe it has become.
We've been well and truly duped.
And OF COURSE all what I said is my opinion. Is that not what people expect me to give? I certainly can't give somebody else's opnion.
I really wonder at the mental processes that some posters go through before arriving at comments such as that.
So don't watch it? It's not a difficult decision. If you clearly don't enjoy it, vote with your feet. Stop pissing and moaning about 'the good old days'. Yesterday's events only emphasise what a pile of tripe it has become.
We've been well and truly duped.
And OF COURSE all what I said is my opinion. Is that not what people expect me to give? I certainly can't give somebody else's opnion.
I really wonder at the mental processes that some posters go through before arriving at comments such as that.
Edited by Eric Mc on Monday 26th June 12:41
I really wonder about the mental processes of people who can't make such simple decisions.
Eric Mc said:
Aha - so you do believe in restricting the breadth of the discourse.
I thought so.
Everything has to be in its own little box. Don't dare step outside it or suffer the wrath of those who only want to talk about what the current F1 scene is up to.
Maybe you are correct. Maybe having a view that takes history and context into account - and a love for the legacy of the sport - has no place in modern F1 discussion.
If that is the case, then you are 100% correct - I have no interest in that one dimensional world at all.
Eric, I think you should go and talk to someone about your argumentative/negative traits and persecution complex. You seem like a very knowledgable chap, but your energies could be put to better use than 100,000 posts correcting perceived inaccuracies and sleights.I thought so.
Everything has to be in its own little box. Don't dare step outside it or suffer the wrath of those who only want to talk about what the current F1 scene is up to.
Maybe you are correct. Maybe having a view that takes history and context into account - and a love for the legacy of the sport - has no place in modern F1 discussion.
If that is the case, then you are 100% correct - I have no interest in that one dimensional world at all.
oyster said:
C70R said:
thegreenhell said:
KobayashiMaru86 said:
Many of the current racers watched it on normal TV when they were kids and inspired them to do it. If it goes all paid then kids won't see it. If BTCC went behind a paywall it would kill it.
All the rich kids whose parents can afford to take them karting can also afford the Sky subscription to watch F1. Professional motor racing has always been an elitist sport, and this will just reinforce that.In all honesty, that comment is just about the stupidest thing I've read on PH. And moreover, for whom is £60-odd a month a massive burden?
The licence fee (to get the C4 coverage and the previous ITV/BBC coverage) is approx. £10 a month.
Even funnier is that whilst expressing an inability to comprehend that £60 pcm is a lot of money, you refer to another comment as being the stupidest thing on PH!!
Eric Mc said:
jbudgie said:
Crafty_ said:
I was going to write a reply to Eric's continuing infantile rants, but i really can't be bothered.
He has decided to give up the sport, yet is still here posting his usual drivel and bile. I can only assume to try and spread negativity and his own misery.
Its little more than trolling to be honest, he's deliberately posting to ensure he gets a reaction so he can continue his little tirade.
Pretty pathetic that he's got nothing better to do with his time to be honest.
No-one ever said F1 was perfect but its far better than he tries to make out.
What a nasty little post.He has decided to give up the sport, yet is still here posting his usual drivel and bile. I can only assume to try and spread negativity and his own misery.
Its little more than trolling to be honest, he's deliberately posting to ensure he gets a reaction so he can continue his little tirade.
Pretty pathetic that he's got nothing better to do with his time to be honest.
No-one ever said F1 was perfect but its far better than he tries to make out.
Eric Mc said:
That would probably make it more interesting, to be honest.
Eric, you and I known each other a long time on PH, and I have always enjoyed your informative and knowledgable posts, but I have to very gently say that comments like this are overwhelmingly negative and petty, and really don't add anything to the debate. Please take this in the constructive way it is intended, but your F1 posts these days really do consist only of negative sniping and trolling. Perhaps it is not your intent, but that's how they come across. Perhaps it's time for you to move on from F1 to pastures new, if you really don't see any value in the sport any more.
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