The Official 2018 F1 Silly Season *Contains Speculation*
Discussion
Vaud said:
cuprabob said:
Hill, Clark and Stewart were great friends and rivals. Different times though.
While they were racing or after? I know lots become friends after their racing careers. As you say though, a different time. They never got a chance to be friends after racing
Edited by cuprabob on Sunday 1st October 21:18
Edited by cuprabob on Sunday 1st October 21:21
Yes, but what amazing stuff that might be. And no paper trail to implicate anyone either 
Of course, a less honourable person might have foreseen such an eventuality and taken appropriate steps
I was asked by my last employer to bring a client contact list with me on joining them. The very employer who ruthlessly enforced covenants in contracts and took ex-employees to court for doing exactly what they'd asked me to do.
Of course, a less honourable person might have foreseen such an eventuality and taken appropriate steps
I was asked by my last employer to bring a client contact list with me on joining them. The very employer who ruthlessly enforced covenants in contracts and took ex-employees to court for doing exactly what they'd asked me to do.
Vaud said:
Stepney left the building with the material.
This guy is only leaving with stuff in his head.
It’s a storm in a teacup. The other teams are probably more annoyed that they didn’t secure his services.
I'm not so sure. Stepney had stuff from one team, this is the guy all the teams run their concepts by before they actually start to build and develop them into the car. For example concepts like the F duct or double diffuser would be run past him/his team. As a result he will quite possibly be aware of whatever next year's cars will feature in order to give them the edge, and will be able to take it with him to his new employer.This guy is only leaving with stuff in his head.
It’s a storm in a teacup. The other teams are probably more annoyed that they didn’t secure his services.
Legally there's nothing that can be done to stop him now but they want to make absolutely sure this doesn't happen again I guess. Extended non-compete clauses are not enforceable under Swiss law, or UK I believe, as they can massively restrict your ability to change jobs. If the employer wants to keep you away for a while they need to ensure that your notice period covers this.
jamiebae said:
Extended non-compete clauses are not enforceable under Swiss law, or UK I believe, as they can massively restrict your ability to change jobs. If the employer wants to keep you away for a while they need to ensure that your notice period covers this.
I think the phrase is "restraint of trade". They are enforceable, ask Breadvan72, but they are all down to interpretation and the words in the contracts. He is one of the true experts on this topic.
I don't know Swiss law. French law tends to bias towards the employee but I don't know the non-compete.
The way this will be solved will be via the teams either agreeing to not using anyone ex FIA for 12 months (pay them a yea to sit on their bottom), or they will refuse to allow the FIA to inspect their IP in development.
If we end up at the latter position, we will see the old days return with at event arguments about what is legal.
I expect the former will happen and we will effectively see a Gentleman's agreement between the teams.
If we end up at the latter position, we will see the old days return with at event arguments about what is legal.
I expect the former will happen and we will effectively see a Gentleman's agreement between the teams.
jsf said:
The way this will be solved will be via the teams either agreeing to not using anyone ex FIA for 12 months (pay them a yea to sit on their bottom), or they will refuse to allow the FIA to inspect their IP in development.
If we end up at the latter position, we will see the old days return with at event arguments about what is legal.
I expect the former will happen and we will effectively see a Gentleman's agreement between the teams.
On your first point, I think blacklists are illegal in many countries.If we end up at the latter position, we will see the old days return with at event arguments about what is legal.
I expect the former will happen and we will effectively see a Gentleman's agreement between the teams.
On your second, isn't it voluntary submission anyway - a bit like talking to a planning inspector about the boundaries of planning law before actually building the house?
It's a storm in a teacup. They will probably end up paying the guy to work in Renault roadcars for a year and allow random FIA inspection of his email, devices, etc.
Vaud said:
jsf said:
The way this will be solved will be via the teams either agreeing to not using anyone ex FIA for 12 months (pay them a yea to sit on their bottom), or they will refuse to allow the FIA to inspect their IP in development.
If we end up at the latter position, we will see the old days return with at event arguments about what is legal.
I expect the former will happen and we will effectively see a Gentleman's agreement between the teams.
On your first point, I think blacklists are illegal in many countries.If we end up at the latter position, we will see the old days return with at event arguments about what is legal.
I expect the former will happen and we will effectively see a Gentleman's agreement between the teams.
On your second, isn't it voluntary submission anyway - a bit like talking to a planning inspector about the boundaries of planning law before actually building the house?
It's a storm in a teacup. They will probably end up paying the guy to work in Renault roadcars for a year and allow random FIA inspection of his email, devices, etc.
Its not a storm in a teacup, its a huge issue. This guy was in the factories looking at their 2018 designs, that could potentially be worth hundreds of millions in IP knowledge.
Yes, its a voluntary thing at present, which is why I say if things don't get sorted the FIA wont get a look at the tech until they are in the scrutineering bay at the event. That would be a regressive step for the sport and will add costs, so I think something acceptable will be implemented.
Vaud said:
On your first point, I think blacklists are illegal in many countries.
On your second, isn't it voluntary submission anyway - a bit like talking to a planning inspector about the boundaries of planning law before actually building the house?
It's a storm in a teacup. They will probably end up paying the guy to work in Renault roadcars for a year and allow random FIA inspection of his email, devices, etc.
I'm not sure why you are so adamant it's a storm in a teacup, but to me it seems like it's far more serious. I'm struggling to think of a parallel outside F1 as there aren't many industries where you run stuff past a central body before implementing it, but I guess it's like someone managing to get access to the new product roadmap and commercial plan for your business, and that of all your competitors, then taking it to one company. Maybe it all blows over, and I don't think there's much that can be done now anyway, but I think it's a pretty big deal.On your second, isn't it voluntary submission anyway - a bit like talking to a planning inspector about the boundaries of planning law before actually building the house?
It's a storm in a teacup. They will probably end up paying the guy to work in Renault roadcars for a year and allow random FIA inspection of his email, devices, etc.
jamiebae said:
I'm not sure why you are so adamant it's a storm in a teacup, but to me it seems like it's far more serious. I'm struggling to think of a parallel outside F1 as there aren't many industries where you run stuff past a central body before implementing it, but I guess it's like someone managing to get access to the new product roadmap and commercial plan for your business, and that of all your competitors, then taking it to one company. Maybe it all blows over, and I don't think there's much that can be done now anyway, but I think it's a pretty big deal.
I say it because I don't see the teams pulling a pin from a grenade, which is what they normally do when they are REALLY annoyed.Liberty execs were not at Malaysia, which they would have been if some serious smoothing/negotiations were needed (as they were in the McLaren/Honda/Renault negotiations.
No-one is threatening injunctions, etc. They got blindsided or didn't know he was on the market.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132154/top-teams...
It was all very polite at the strategy meeting from this report.
Edit: I have seen comments that 3 months is the limit for gardening leave on Swiss contracts. I don't know.
Vaud said:
I say it because I don't see the teams pulling a pin from a grenade, which is what they normally do when they are REALLY annoyed.
Liberty execs were not at Malaysia, which they would have been if some serious smoothing/negotiations were needed (as they were in the McLaren/Honda/Renault negotiations.
No-one is threatening injunctions, etc. They got blindsided or didn't know he was on the market.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132154/top-teams...
It was all very polite at the strategy meeting from this report.
Edit: I have seen comments that 3 months is the limit for gardening leave on Swiss contracts. I don't know.
Fair enough.Liberty execs were not at Malaysia, which they would have been if some serious smoothing/negotiations were needed (as they were in the McLaren/Honda/Renault negotiations.
No-one is threatening injunctions, etc. They got blindsided or didn't know he was on the market.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132154/top-teams...
It was all very polite at the strategy meeting from this report.
Edit: I have seen comments that 3 months is the limit for gardening leave on Swiss contracts. I don't know.
I can tell you with 100% certainty there is no 3 month gardening leave limit on Swiss contracts. I'm a Swiss resident and have been for several years, and had more than 3 months tending my allotment before starting my current job. At my previous company we put people on 6 months leave too, it just depends on the notice period in their contract.
More likely is that the FIA didn't want the risk of having to pay salaries for that long while people weren't working. In that kind of role all you have to do is resign and refuse to disclose where you're going and they have no choice but to send you home. Alternatively, he has a French contract and the law there may be different but I don't know.
suffolk009 said:
Mark Hughes reporting that Williams are going to run Di Resta against Kubica in a 2014 car over four days of testing to choose a driver.
If that's the case, that is superb news. I wonder if Palmer gets a look in. I really want Williams to end up with whoever is the best driver. HustleRussell said:
suffolk009 said:
Mark Hughes reporting that Williams are going to run Di Resta against Kubica in a 2014 car over four days of testing to choose a driver.
If that's the case, that is superb news. I wonder if Palmer gets a look in. I really want Williams to end up with whoever is the best driver. thegreenhell said:
HustleRussell said:
suffolk009 said:
Mark Hughes reporting that Williams are going to run Di Resta against Kubica in a 2014 car over four days of testing to choose a driver.
If that's the case, that is superb news. I wonder if Palmer gets a look in. I really want Williams to end up with whoever is the best driver. I think Stroll is coming on and could well have an F1 drive on merit given time but for 2018 Williams have very limited options for its other driver.
I was never a Di Resta fan, as you and Vaud have said he came across as a miserable so-and-so with accountability issues- frankly I don’t see why you’d pick him over Palmer as IMO they are from a very similar mould in many ways.
The Kubica comeback is a great story but I’m not convinced he can do it, he doesn’t look fit even if you discount the arm. I know he has done an extended test but…
Are any one of these guys significantly better than Massa? I’m really not sure. But I am glad they are tackling this properly with comparative tests.
Vaud said:
HustleRussell said:
If that's the case, that is superb news. I wonder if Palmer gets a look in. I really want Williams to end up with whoever is the best driver.
So do I, though DiResta makes Kimi look like a happy go lucky smiling charm.
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