Sebastian Vettel
Discussion
kiseca said:
Not at all, but you said "afraid to take him on in equal machinery". It's your reason that I'm challenging, not the action.
If Senna were in a different team, Prost would have had to interact with Senna in F1 in any case and deal with his shenanigans. He didn't want to share a car because he didn't feel he could beat Senna in the same car and team.I'm no massive Senna fan either, he was a paranoid hypocrite (except on the issue of Balestre, who was as bent as a 5 franc note).
paulguitar said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
07 although he didn't win the championship that year (though could have but for the rub of the green).
And one of the oddest mechanical issues of all time in Brazil at the decider.Personally I think he fluffed something on the settings and the team spared him his blushes (rightly so if true). I won't lie, I've followed him since 2006 and the despair of 07, followed by the crushing feeling that he wasn't going to be lucky enough to win a title in the last laps of Brazil 08 meant when he did, I was set up as a fanboy for life.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
kiseca said:
Not at all, but you said "afraid to take him on in equal machinery". It's your reason that I'm challenging, not the action.
If Senna were in a different team, Prost would have had to interact with Senna in F1 in any case and deal with his shenanigans. He didn't want to share a car because he didn't feel he could beat Senna in the same car and team.I'm no massive Senna fan either, he was a paranoid hypocrite (except on the issue of Balestre, who was as bent as a 5 franc note).
It would be out of character for both of them. Prost didn't want to be in the same team as Senna because Senna destroyed the working environment and made the team a terrible place to work for Prost. Mansell had the same complaint about Prost.
Prost has said as much. He couldn't work with Senna because he made the team environment toxic. Compare this to the relationship Prost had with Niki Lauda, who also beat him in an equal car....
What you're saying is conjecture. If you want to think it's fact then I can't stop you, but it's your opinion, that's all.
Actually, you'd have to say the same thing about Senna himself, who blocked Jonathan Palmer from joining Lotus as his team mate.
Edited by kiseca on Monday 13th July 11:49
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Was Prost open to the idea of Senna joining him at Williams?
By then, they had a little disharmonious history, as outlined by Kiseca.Prost had a say in Senna's arrival at McL ( bring Senna into the team, he's better for the team than Piquet). He wasn't "scared " of Senna.
Added to points already mentioned above, Prost ( although not a title winning season) handed Mansell his arse on a plate at Ferrari, 5-1.
kiseca said:
groomi said:
kiseca said:
Actually, you'd have to say the same thing about Senna himself, who blocked Jonathan Palmer from joining Lotus as his team mate.
It was Derek Warwick, allegedly.paua said:
Someone above claimed Senna was "usually" faster than Prost
The fastest laps during the races... and in this case you can find that Alain scored 41 fastest laps (that's a percentage of 20.60) - while Senna scored 19 (or 11.80 percent).
Senna was, without question, faster in the wet.
I used to be a mega Senna fanboy and could never tolerate criticism of him but in later years I have developed a massive respect for Prost; his worth ethic, approach to racing, his racing style, his professionalism and his determination is legendary.The fastest laps during the races... and in this case you can find that Alain scored 41 fastest laps (that's a percentage of 20.60) - while Senna scored 19 (or 11.80 percent).
Senna was, without question, faster in the wet.
Even his undramatic style of driving the car is something to be marvelled it.
Schermerhorn said:
I used to be a mega Senna fanboy and could never tolerate criticism of him but in later years I have developed a massive respect for Prost; his worth ethic, approach to racing, his racing style, his professionalism and his determination is legendary.
Even his undramatic style of driving the car is something to be marvelled it.
That was always remarkable. You could instantly see when Senna was "on it". But for Prost you needed the timing.Even his undramatic style of driving the car is something to be marvelled it.
Europa1 said:
Teddy Lop said:
lec does have a penitence when he knows he wrong though.
Does he? I (genuinely) haven't seen any comment from him on his trip back to Monaco, but when F1 is making a lot out of the precautions they are taking to keep everybody safe, and the sanctity of the F1 biosphere, this seemed a bad card for him to have played.If he's apologised and said it was a misjudgement, then hats off to him.
I thought he handled it well. Granted there wasn't exactly a ton of grey area, but he took the blame and publically ate his s
t, his team-mate could learn from it.Schermerhorn said:
I used to be a mega Senna fanboy and could never tolerate criticism of him but in later years I have developed a massive respect for Prost; his worth ethic, approach to racing, his racing style, his professionalism and his determination is legendary.
Even his undramatic style of driving the car is something to be marvelled it.
I loved Keke Rosberg and when he was teamed with Prost I looked forward to him beating him and showing everyone how good KR was...............only he didn't. At all. Even his undramatic style of driving the car is something to be marvelled it.
Media attention always falls on the most exciting drivers and that often means the better ones get a bit under rated.
Exige77 said:
I heard from an Red Team F1 insider this morning, their problem with Seb was not his driving or ability but his attitude.
He wouldn’t elaborate but just said attitude to the team is very important.
Interesting comment from your source… …the speculation is currently there in the media, as you would expect…He wouldn’t elaborate but just said attitude to the team is very important.
Vettel & Red Bull talks: Sebastian speaks to the French press
Para 5:
“Further, the German press over the weekend was fairly convinced that we would see Sebastian return to Red Bull and according to them, along with Sky F1’s Ted Kravitz, Dieterich Matesich instructed Red Bull’s Christian Horner and Helmut Marko to ‘bring Sebastian home’ or words to that effect.”
https://thejudge13.com/2020/07/14/vettel-red-bull-...
Max Verstappen and Sebastian Vettel tipped for 'crazy' Red Bull link up after Ferrari exit
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/13093...
Frimley111R said:
Schermerhorn said:
I used to be a mega Senna fanboy and could never tolerate criticism of him but in later years I have developed a massive respect for Prost; his worth ethic, approach to racing, his racing style, his professionalism and his determination is legendary.
Even his undramatic style of driving the car is something to be marvelled it.
I loved Keke Rosberg and when he was teamed with Prost I looked forward to him beating him and showing everyone how good KR was...............only he didn't. At all. Even his undramatic style of driving the car is something to be marvelled it.
Media attention always falls on the most exciting drivers and that often means the better ones get a bit under rated.
To be fair to Keke, he seemed on the pace at the last race of the season, and before that, he'd been struggling with a car that had been designed by John Barnard, who in his book has stated he thinks a race car should have a very planted rear axle and lots of traction - so his cars understeer - and then developed for Prost, who also preferred a bit of understeer. So I think Keke had to come to terms with a car that was the opposite of what he prefers, and a chief designer who wasn't that open to his opinion.
Barnard had a similar problem with Schumacher. Felt he was "wrong" to prefer the V12 car, because it gave him more engine braking which allowed him to move the back of the car more.
Then again, about Prost's smooth style, I think it was Jo Ramirez who said at the end of that Australian GP, which Keke didn't finish - puncture I think - and Prost won, Keke's brakes looked like they wouldn't have lasted to the end of the race, but Prost's brakes looked good enough to do another race!
kiseca said:
Keke had a lot of respect for Prost after that season and predicted that Senna was going to get his butt kicked when he went to McLaren in 1988. Didn't quite turn out like that but often hear stories of Prost's deceptive speed.
To be fair to Keke, he seemed on the pace at the last race of the season, and before that, he'd been struggling with a car that had been designed by John Barnard, who in his book has stated he thinks a race car should have a very planted rear axle and lots of traction - so his cars understeer - and then developed for Prost, who also preferred a bit of understeer. So I think Keke had to come to terms with a car that was the opposite of what he prefers, and a chief designer who wasn't that open to his opinion.
Barnard had a similar problem with Schumacher. Felt he was "wrong" to prefer the V12 car, because it gave him more engine braking which allowed him to move the back of the car more.
Then again, about Prost's smooth style, I think it was Jo Ramirez who said at the end of that Australian GP, which Keke didn't finish - puncture I think - and Prost won, Keke's brakes looked like they wouldn't have lasted to the end of the race, but Prost's brakes looked good enough to do another race!
Brake wear on a racecar is often worse when the driver isn't aggressive, the best way to use them is very hard over the shortest distance possible. It's one of the areas of racecar driving you have to work on as a new driver. Drivers who have brake issues tend to use them too gently, extending the application time which ramps up heat and wear.To be fair to Keke, he seemed on the pace at the last race of the season, and before that, he'd been struggling with a car that had been designed by John Barnard, who in his book has stated he thinks a race car should have a very planted rear axle and lots of traction - so his cars understeer - and then developed for Prost, who also preferred a bit of understeer. So I think Keke had to come to terms with a car that was the opposite of what he prefers, and a chief designer who wasn't that open to his opinion.
Barnard had a similar problem with Schumacher. Felt he was "wrong" to prefer the V12 car, because it gave him more engine braking which allowed him to move the back of the car more.
Then again, about Prost's smooth style, I think it was Jo Ramirez who said at the end of that Australian GP, which Keke didn't finish - puncture I think - and Prost won, Keke's brakes looked like they wouldn't have lasted to the end of the race, but Prost's brakes looked good enough to do another race!
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