Sebastian Vettel

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I've won more championships and races with my cars in my discipline of motorsport than he has.

He is good at what he does, i'm good at what i do, nothing unusual about that.

[Europa1]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

By "built", do you mean designed, or you have assembled?

Are you talking about F1 cars, or cars in the series that Newey has raced in personally?

[paulguitar]

rockin said:

jsf said:

The Williams Senna died in was a nasty handling car, it took a long time to sort it out.

I can't see the evidence to support that. Damon Hill won six races and finished second in a further six driving the same car as Ayrton Senna. He finished second in the F1 championship just one point behind Michael Schumacher.

Do a bit more reading about 1994. The Williams didn't work until a fair way into the season. Then they sorted it out, and it was the class of the field.

Edited by paulguitar on Thursday 10th September 22:07

[Europa Jon]

Teppic said:

Christ, is he driving for John Deere now???

[Oilchange]

paulguitar said:

rockin said:

jsf said:

The Williams Senna died in was a nasty handling car, it took a long time to sort it out.

I can't see the evidence to support that. Damon Hill won six races and finished second in a further six driving the same car as Ayrton Senna. He finished second in the F1 championship just one point behind Michael Schumacher.

Do a bit more reading about 1994. The Williams didn't work until a fair way into the season. Then they sorted it out, and it was the class of the field.

Edited by paulguitar on Thursday 10th September 22:07

I thought the Williams ride height was one of the main issue as Senna got spat off into the wall at Tamburello.. Having watched the film and various other things, that's what springs to my mind anyway

[paulguitar]

Oilchange said:

I thought the Williams ride height was one of the main issue as Senna got spat off into the wall at Tamburello.. Having watched the film and various other things, that's what springs to my mind anyway

All kinds of theories on that, probably best not to open the can of worms!

It's well recorded that both Patrick Head and Adrian Newey amongst others at the team knew they'd messed the car up a the start of the season. They did excellent work with it and sorted out the car's issues, and it became fully competitive. The fact that Senna qualified the troublesome early version on pole for the first three races that year is a demonstration of how other-worldly he could be in qualifying. Hill's quali laps were probably more representative of where the car should have been.

[boxy but good]

Europa Jon said:

Teppic said:

Christ, is he driving for John Deere now???

Yes.....It's the red one

[Deesee]

Oilchange said:

I thought the Williams ride height was one of the main issue as Senna got spat off into the wall at Tamburello.. Having watched the film and various other things, that's what springs to my mind anyway

Brundle did a piece with Newey on Sky (all things Newey not just Senna), the low ride hight was the problem, Newey said that Senna was able to over come it over one lap, and bagged 4 poles, but lap after lap he could not, this resulted with not a single race finish, then Imola.

Here’s the piece (no paywall)

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/e4gxg2/...

Edited by Deesee on Friday 11th September 06:32

[Hugo Stiglitz]

patmahe said:

I really hope this move rejuvenates Vettel, he is a world class driver but can't work miracles in that awful Ferrari, the Racing Point is capable of more than it has achieved so far this season (podium aside) so will be interesting to see what Sebastian can get out of it with his experience.

I disagree. He'll sink like a stone like Kimi.

[vdn]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

patmahe said:

I really hope this move rejuvenates Vettel, he is a world class driver but can't work miracles in that awful Ferrari, the Racing Point is capable of more than it has achieved so far this season (podium aside) so will be interesting to see what Sebastian can get out of it with his experience.

I disagree. He'll sink like a stone like Kimi.

Seb shines when he’s not troubled by a talented teammate - see DR and CL of course. And so, we may still see some of the old Vettel magic.

[kiseca]

WickerBill said:

kiseca said:

jsf said:

The Williams Senna died in was a nasty handling car, it took a long time to sort it out.

Yeah. I'm amazed I could forget that one.

Wasn’t that because it was designed around having active suspension, which was then banned at a very late stage?

I have read that somewhere, not from Williams or Newey, but from someone at Benetton who claimed they were better prepared to adapt to the change because they were used to building cars with aerodynamics that worked on a body that changed attitude all the time, whereas Williams had spent a couple of seasons getting used to a car that stayed flat.

[Bright Halo]

Deesee said:

Oilchange said:

I thought the Williams ride height was one of the main issue as Senna got spat off into the wall at Tamburello.. Having watched the film and various other things, that's what springs to my mind anyway

Brundle did a piece with Newey on Sky (all things Newey not just Senna), the low ride hight was the problem, Newey said that Senna was able to over come it over one lap, and bagged 4 poles, but lap after lap he could not, this resulted with not a single race finish, then Imola.

Here’s the piece (no paywall)

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/e4gxg2/...

Edited by Deesee on Friday 11th September 06:32

Thanks for sharing that I had not seen it before.
You can see how heavily the weight of Senna’s death weigh’s on Newey’s shoulders.
What an amazing house/estate he has.

[anonymous-user]

Muzzer79 said:

Are you saying that if AN turned up at your team, you’d tell him to sling his hook?

I certainly wouldn’t.

Newey has a habit of creating dogs as well as superstars. In any case, a modern team isn't ever going to be Newey and a pocket full of HBs. If I had to take one design team from the paddock, it wouldn't be Red Bull's (I'd take the obvious one).

Wonder whether Vettel is hoping Mercedes lose some of their mojo when Toto steps back a bit? Otherwise you're stuck in a 'B' team and I'm not sure that's where Vettel ought to be, if he's in F1 at all.

[Leithen]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

Newey has a habit of creating dogs as well as superstars. In any case, a modern team isn't ever going to be Newey and a pocket full of HBs. If I had to take one design team from the paddock, it wouldn't be Red Bull's (I'd take the obvious one).

Wonder whether Vettel is hoping Mercedes lose some of their mojo when Toto steps back a bit? Otherwise you're stuck in a 'B' team and I'm not sure that's where Vettel ought to be, if he's in F1 at all.

Given that Mercedes mojo was largely the work of Brawn, I wouldn't bet on it being lost by anyone's departure. Inertia can be good and bad.

[anonymous-user]

Mercedes strength is in their structure of competent departments, it's far more a team of specialists than a single focal point.

When key people move on, they continue to dominate, because the structure is there to absorb and evolve.

It's the perfect expression of how competent management of a business produces world beating performance.

[kiseca]

Brawn's model seems the most effective but it's reliant on leadership to make it work. Newey is a genius but his ideas are in general the result of one man's mind. Barnard was even more that way.

Brawn's model integrates all the departments and suppliers in a more effective way and for me would be easier to make effective in all teams, it would be more reslient to a change in chief designer even, but you still need that one guy at the top making sure that the model stays active. Newey and Barnard's more hands-on design focussed methods wouldn't work without Newey and Barnard, and by the same token Brawn's model wouldn't work with a Brawn or a Toto in charge. If you moved Horner to Mercedes, the team would look and function very differently probably within a season or two. I'm not saying it would be less effective necessarily, but he'd need to attract bigger names into the roles below his own to succeed. He needs a Newey. Brawn and Toto, it seems, don't.

EDIT: What is impressive to me is that Toto managed to continue with and I guess even evolve Brawn's foundation. Ferrari couldn't to do this and started declining as soon as Brawn was gone.

Edited by kiseca on Friday 11th September 08:45

[Deesee]

Bright Halo said:

Thanks for sharing that I had not seen it before.
You can see how heavily the weight of Senna’s death weigh’s on Newey’s shoulders.
What an amazing house/estate he has.

It certainly changed my option of how he is cast by the media and Red Bull, the glint in his eye and the affection for his drivers when he talks about Nigel, Damon, Seb and Max.. then Senna The body language completely changes..

I’d love to see a longer feature with some Leyton House and the McLaren years (I loved some of the cars), & maybe a feature in his personal garage, I’m sure they did one on his Lotus 65 a few years back too..I’m sure he let Brundle have a go with it.

[paulguitar]

Bright Halo said:

Thanks for sharing that I had not seen it before.
You can see how heavily the weight of Senna’s death weigh’s on Newey’s shoulders.
What an amazing house/estate he has.

Great video.

Yep, his house, holy st, what a place.

[WickerBill]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

no it wouldnt.....

.....not unless you count Gasly as a Schumacher

[entropy]

kiseca said:

WickerBill said:

kiseca said:

jsf said:

The Williams Senna died in was a nasty handling car, it took a long time to sort it out.

Yeah. I'm amazed I could forget that one.

Wasn’t that because it was designed around having active suspension, which was then banned at a very late stage?

I have read that somewhere, not from Williams or Newey, but from someone at Benetton who claimed they were better prepared to adapt to the change because they were used to building cars with aerodynamics that worked on a body that changed attitude all the time, whereas Williams had spent a couple of seasons getting used to a car that stayed flat.

Active suspension was originally meant to be banned - from almost immediate effect - halfway through the '93 season but then got changed to the next year.

Found an old Newey-Autosport interview a couple of months. Williams had taken the eye off the ball after concentrating on perfecting the active cars then switching to passive. The front wing was causing aero instability and the floor kept stalling.