Sebastian Vettel
Discussion
Regarding a penalty, I agree that it should be increased.
As the governing body of a number of motorsports, and as the 'pinnacle' of motorsport with high publicity, the FIA should be obligated to severely stamp down on this kind of thing. It's almost worse that it happened under SC rather than during race, sure the speeds are slower, but there's no mistaking it for anything other than an intentional, malicious act. I can see why they went lenient - there's immense pressure at the moment to keep the spectacle going but really, this should have been a no brainer.
At the very minimum I'd be expecting severely strong words, in private, between Seb, the FIA and Ferrari. It can't be allowed to happen again and I hope there's some sort of statement from Seb come the next race.
As the governing body of a number of motorsports, and as the 'pinnacle' of motorsport with high publicity, the FIA should be obligated to severely stamp down on this kind of thing. It's almost worse that it happened under SC rather than during race, sure the speeds are slower, but there's no mistaking it for anything other than an intentional, malicious act. I can see why they went lenient - there's immense pressure at the moment to keep the spectacle going but really, this should have been a no brainer.
At the very minimum I'd be expecting severely strong words, in private, between Seb, the FIA and Ferrari. It can't be allowed to happen again and I hope there's some sort of statement from Seb come the next race.
I think Seb is starting to feel the pressure of being the lead Ferrari driver. His first year at the Scuderia was a success as there was no pressure as nobody had any high expectations after the disaster that was 2014, then last year Italy expected a title challenge and they failed and we saw Seb make lots of mistakes. Now that Mercedes are starting to get the legs on Ferrari again the pressure is building in Italy and you can see Seb moving back into the same mindset as last year.
I was surprised that he did not receive the black flag for his antics, would have sent more of a message than a 10 second stop and go along with the potential threat of a race ban if his points tally up over the next 2 GPs.
I was surprised that he did not receive the black flag for his antics, would have sent more of a message than a 10 second stop and go along with the potential threat of a race ban if his points tally up over the next 2 GPs.
GAjon said:
37chevy said:
Think people also need to remember that this happened under a SAFETY car....
...so not only did he cause an avoidable accident, he overtook under a safety car and caused a red flag because of the debris (ok debris from other cars contributed to it)
Yes there is contact in other formula but how many times have you seen drivers deliberately hitting each other under safety car conditions and getting away with it?
He also gained an advantage for his actions, not correct in any competition!...so not only did he cause an avoidable accident, he overtook under a safety car and caused a red flag because of the debris (ok debris from other cars contributed to it)
Yes there is contact in other formula but how many times have you seen drivers deliberately hitting each other under safety car conditions and getting away with it?
At the end of the day Vettel received a harsher penalty than other drivers have in the past for arguably worse offences, and if he had hit Bottas or Ricciardo rather than Hamilton then I think people would have been happy with the penalty.
Should Vettel learn to be a bit humble about it and accept the blame? Absolutely. Should the FIA punish him further just because he is petulant? No.
Yes he gained an advantage over the car he was racing, both on track at the time and in the wdc although disadvantaged himself ( and Hamilton) overall.
I don't have a problem with Vettel, and I don't think for a minute he did it to gain an advantage, he did it in a fit of temper, that's not acceptable in any competition.
I don't have a problem with Vettel, and I don't think for a minute he did it to gain an advantage, he did it in a fit of temper, that's not acceptable in any competition.
thegreenhell said:
GAjon said:
He also gained an advantage for his actions, not correct in any competition!
I must have missed the part where Vettel unclipped Hamilton's headrest.There's a whole load of new reports today that the German magazine Auto, motor und sport reckons jean todt has had enough
Sebastian Vettel's 10-second stop-and-go and penalty points may not have been the full extent of the punishment lowered upon the German following his Baku antics.
Germany's Auto, Motor und Sport is reporting that FIA President Jean Todt could be seeking further investigation into Vettel's on-track clash with Lewis Hamilton on Sunday, and perhaps additional disciplinary action.
As a reminder, Vettel's colorful radio tirade during last year's Mexican Grand Prix, when he took personal aim at race director Charlie Whiting twice telling him to f*** off, landed the Ferrari driver in hot water but ultimately he received only a warning from the FIA.
Todt may not feel inclined to show as much leniency this time around however.
Under Article 151C of the International Sporting Code, the governing body could haul Vettel in front of its tribunal, if he is deemed to have brought the sport into disrepute
Sebastian Vettel's 10-second stop-and-go and penalty points may not have been the full extent of the punishment lowered upon the German following his Baku antics.
Germany's Auto, Motor und Sport is reporting that FIA President Jean Todt could be seeking further investigation into Vettel's on-track clash with Lewis Hamilton on Sunday, and perhaps additional disciplinary action.
As a reminder, Vettel's colorful radio tirade during last year's Mexican Grand Prix, when he took personal aim at race director Charlie Whiting twice telling him to f*** off, landed the Ferrari driver in hot water but ultimately he received only a warning from the FIA.
Todt may not feel inclined to show as much leniency this time around however.
Under Article 151C of the International Sporting Code, the governing body could haul Vettel in front of its tribunal, if he is deemed to have brought the sport into disrepute
As for vettel, he needs to realise when the general weight of opinion - from fans to other drivers to potential employers all think he was bang in the wrong and for the most part acting like a cock, and eat some humble pie.
Like many here I consider vettel flattered by his 4xWDC status and he did well out of being in the RB when he was, but he's gone a long way recently to showing he's got more to offer and making a few of us re-appraise, it's a shame it's now marred by him revealing such an ugly side to his character so blatantly.
Although like said schumacher alonso and many before have all done dastardly villian stuff and still get adored so these things pass.
Like many here I consider vettel flattered by his 4xWDC status and he did well out of being in the RB when he was, but he's gone a long way recently to showing he's got more to offer and making a few of us re-appraise, it's a shame it's now marred by him revealing such an ugly side to his character so blatantly.
Although like said schumacher alonso and many before have all done dastardly villian stuff and still get adored so these things pass.
According to respected German magazine Auto Motor und Sport, Vettel was indeed close to being disqualified.
The ten-second stop/go penalty was issued due to the race stewards 'fear of intervening too much in the World Championship with a draconian penalty. A sports commissioner said: 'It was a narrow decision: Vettel was very near a black flag.'
So ultimately it's one rule for Ferrari's 2017 Formula One World Championship leader and one rule for everyone else.
So come on Jean Todt show us what your made of, leaving it as it is just proves the above point
Doink said:
According to respected German magazine Auto Motor und Sport, Vettel was indeed close to being disqualified.
The ten-second stop/go penalty was issued due to the race stewards 'fear of intervening too much in the World Championship with a draconian penalty. A sports commissioner said: 'It was a narrow decision: Vettel was very near a black flag.'
So ultimately it's one rule for Ferrari's 2017 Formula One World Championship leader and one rule for everyone else.
So come on Jean Todt show us what your made of, leaving it as it is just proves the above point
If that's true then the other teams should be voicing their disapproval too. As in, if you aren't fighting for the title then we will throw the book at you, but if you are fighting for it then we will be lenient. Not a good precedent. The ten-second stop/go penalty was issued due to the race stewards 'fear of intervening too much in the World Championship with a draconian penalty. A sports commissioner said: 'It was a narrow decision: Vettel was very near a black flag.'
So ultimately it's one rule for Ferrari's 2017 Formula One World Championship leader and one rule for everyone else.
So come on Jean Todt show us what your made of, leaving it as it is just proves the above point
In a previous job I was involved in discipline cases, and from all sides.
There is one thing which is paramount with regards to decisions: they must be accepted by the miscreant as well as the complainant. If the offender moans then there should be further action.
Vettel has previous for rejecting the authority of those in charge. I can see why Todt might consider further action. From a selfish point of view, I want to see the challenge for the WDC go on as long as possible and at present it seems that Merc has the advantage of Ferrari, with a better engine, better chassis and better lead driver.
From a moralistic point of view, I reckon they should give Vettel a good kicking. But this is F1. Morals have little place.
There is one thing which is paramount with regards to decisions: they must be accepted by the miscreant as well as the complainant. If the offender moans then there should be further action.
Vettel has previous for rejecting the authority of those in charge. I can see why Todt might consider further action. From a selfish point of view, I want to see the challenge for the WDC go on as long as possible and at present it seems that Merc has the advantage of Ferrari, with a better engine, better chassis and better lead driver.
From a moralistic point of view, I reckon they should give Vettel a good kicking. But this is F1. Morals have little place.
I watched the C4 coverage of the race up until the restart with four of my friends who have little or no interest in the sport. They were all glued to it. It was properly entertaining.
Vettel was a silly boy and the penalty was lenient. There is no question that the wheel banging was deliberate. I think the fact that Vettel squarely hit Hamilton from the side axle to axle also shows that it was a calculated move. The cars are strong if you bang wheels in exactly that way- it is unlikely to result in damage to either car. That was Vettel communicating his extreme displeasure.
It seems pretty unjust that Vettel was able to collect a new front wing during the stoppage while Hamilton had to continue with a hastily bodged diffuser which appeared to have a lasting impact on his pace.
It is also regrettable that Hamilton had his head restraint malfunction.
However all of these factors have conspired to throw up a properly unexpected result and continue to build the Hamilton Vettel rivalry so I won't be so quick to say that Vettel should've been black flagged...
(Isn't it great to have an evil German super villain again?)
Vettel was a silly boy and the penalty was lenient. There is no question that the wheel banging was deliberate. I think the fact that Vettel squarely hit Hamilton from the side axle to axle also shows that it was a calculated move. The cars are strong if you bang wheels in exactly that way- it is unlikely to result in damage to either car. That was Vettel communicating his extreme displeasure.
It seems pretty unjust that Vettel was able to collect a new front wing during the stoppage while Hamilton had to continue with a hastily bodged diffuser which appeared to have a lasting impact on his pace.
It is also regrettable that Hamilton had his head restraint malfunction.
However all of these factors have conspired to throw up a properly unexpected result and continue to build the Hamilton Vettel rivalry so I won't be so quick to say that Vettel should've been black flagged...
(Isn't it great to have an evil German super villain again?)
I really am stunned that he/Ferrari haven't 'managed' this so as not to draw more attention to it. His statement effectively feels like him putting his hands over his ears and assuming he is right and everyone is wrong (my 3 year old is good at this).
That he still firmly believes Hamilton was in any way in the wrong and seems to be defecting blame from himself is quite frightening. The FIA really need to do something, even if it's a hefty grid penalty (not sure if that's open to them, I'm guessing not).
That he still firmly believes Hamilton was in any way in the wrong and seems to be defecting blame from himself is quite frightening. The FIA really need to do something, even if it's a hefty grid penalty (not sure if that's open to them, I'm guessing not).
A lot of my views have already been stated, but the fact this happened under the safety car is the issue with me. Wheel to wheel racing is what we want but actually under race conditions, not when Lewis controls the pack and vettel runs into the back of him and looses his cool and then does what we all saw
The fact he hasn't had the balls to hold his hands up and say sorry guys, I lost my cool and it was wrong and I am at fault makes me wonder if he sees a different set of rules to everyone else. What happened sets a dangerous precident to me as it basically says if you do the same again, because you are in contention for the championship we will be lienent is the wrong message
The fact he hasn't had the balls to hold his hands up and say sorry guys, I lost my cool and it was wrong and I am at fault makes me wonder if he sees a different set of rules to everyone else. What happened sets a dangerous precident to me as it basically says if you do the same again, because you are in contention for the championship we will be lienent is the wrong message
There's a lot more options, if they weigh in with breaching article 151c of the international sporting code by bringing the sport into disrepute there are 3 more severe penalties he could face
151c) Any fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally.
153) Scale of penalties
Penalties may be inflicted as follows in order of increasing
severity :
− reprimand (blame);
− fines;
− time penalty;
− exclusion;
− suspension;
− disqualification.
Time penalty means a penalty expressed in minutes and/or seconds.
Any one of the above penalties can only be inflicted after an enquiry has been held and, in case of one of the last three, the concerned party must be summoned to give them the opportunity
of presenting their defence.
For the FIA Formula One World Championship and the FIA World Rally Championship, a penalty consisting of the withdrawal of points over the whole of the Championship may be imposed.
151c) Any fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally.
153) Scale of penalties
Penalties may be inflicted as follows in order of increasing
severity :
− reprimand (blame);
− fines;
− time penalty;
− exclusion;
− suspension;
− disqualification.
Time penalty means a penalty expressed in minutes and/or seconds.
Any one of the above penalties can only be inflicted after an enquiry has been held and, in case of one of the last three, the concerned party must be summoned to give them the opportunity
of presenting their defence.
For the FIA Formula One World Championship and the FIA World Rally Championship, a penalty consisting of the withdrawal of points over the whole of the Championship may be imposed.
Doink said:
? exclusion;
? suspension;
? disqualification.
.
Are these 3 the same as in ACU rules.? suspension;
? disqualification.
.
Exclusion means he is removed from the results of that event
Suspension means he cannot compete for a specified length of time
Disqualification means he cannot take part in any role in any motorsport event for life??
Doink said:
According to respected German magazine Auto Motor und Sport, Vettel was indeed close to being disqualified.
The ten-second stop/go penalty was issued due to the race stewards 'fear of intervening too much in the World Championship with a draconian penalty. A sports commissioner said: 'It was a narrow decision: Vettel was very near a black flag.'
So ultimately it's one rule for Ferrari's 2017 Formula One World Championship leader and one rule for everyone else.
So come on Jean Todt show us what your made of, leaving it as it is just proves the above point
Todt ruling against Ferrari.............................................don't hold your breath The ten-second stop/go penalty was issued due to the race stewards 'fear of intervening too much in the World Championship with a draconian penalty. A sports commissioner said: 'It was a narrow decision: Vettel was very near a black flag.'
So ultimately it's one rule for Ferrari's 2017 Formula One World Championship leader and one rule for everyone else.
So come on Jean Todt show us what your made of, leaving it as it is just proves the above point
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