Sebastian Vettel
Discussion
How often will Ferrari be a fatally damaging career move before they stop attracting top drivers?
Alonso and Vettel both saw it as a chance to get more titles, but the cars and team mistakes left them wanting?
Vettel is still a great driver, but I think a combination of a succession of not quite good enough cars and his family commitments have beaten him.
Alonso and Vettel both saw it as a chance to get more titles, but the cars and team mistakes left them wanting?
Vettel is still a great driver, but I think a combination of a succession of not quite good enough cars and his family commitments have beaten him.
Vettel was for some time my pantomime villain driver, then he went to my pantomime villain team. For a good while, I'd chuckle at his misfortunes as his various chances of wins disappeared.
This season, I just feel sorry for him. Watching an intelligent and proud man grinding himself down is no longer the fun it once was. The silly sod can't even be a comedy villain properly any more.
I'd love to see a Vettel Hamilton swap for a year or two, may be with Alonso in a resurgent McLaren.
Can you imagine Alonso, Verstappen, Hamilton and Alonso gunning it in 2021 at the front of the grid? That would be legendary.
In the meantime, chin up Vettel, you need to get back to being good enough to be my villain!
This season, I just feel sorry for him. Watching an intelligent and proud man grinding himself down is no longer the fun it once was. The silly sod can't even be a comedy villain properly any more.
I'd love to see a Vettel Hamilton swap for a year or two, may be with Alonso in a resurgent McLaren.
Can you imagine Alonso, Verstappen, Hamilton and Alonso gunning it in 2021 at the front of the grid? That would be legendary.
In the meantime, chin up Vettel, you need to get back to being good enough to be my villain!
janesmith1950 said:
Can you imagine Alonso, Verstappen, Hamilton and Alonso gunning it in 2021 at the front of the grid? That would be legendary.
In the meantime, chin up Vettel, you need to get back to being good enough to be my villain!
I think by 2021 we will be talking about Verstappen, Leclerc, Norris and RussellIn the meantime, chin up Vettel, you need to get back to being good enough to be my villain!
Although the idea of Alonso having not one but two drives is an intriguing one ...
janesmith1950 said:
Vettel was for some time my pantomime villain driver, then he went to my pantomime villain team. For a good while, I'd chuckle at his misfortunes as his various chances of wins disappeared.
This season, I just feel sorry for him. Watching an intelligent and proud man grinding himself down is no longer the fun it once was. The silly sod can't even be a comedy villain properly any more.
I'd love to see a Vettel Hamilton swap for a year or two, may be with Alonso in a resurgent McLaren.
Can you imagine Alonso, Verstappen, Hamilton and Alonso gunning it in 2021 at the front of the grid? That would be legendary.
In the meantime, chin up Vettel, you need to get back to being good enough to be my villain!
I know what you mean: I've always had a kind of love/hate thing with Vettel. Hate: the finger, the attitude on track, the petulance (Exhibit A: Canada 2019), Multi-21, the crash with Webber in Turkey, snaffling Webber's wing that year at Silverstone. And yet: off the track, and particularly away from the circuit, he is a very engaging character, with a good sense of humour (especially as a native of country not known for its sense of fun), and a deep knowledge and love of his sport.This season, I just feel sorry for him. Watching an intelligent and proud man grinding himself down is no longer the fun it once was. The silly sod can't even be a comedy villain properly any more.
I'd love to see a Vettel Hamilton swap for a year or two, may be with Alonso in a resurgent McLaren.
Can you imagine Alonso, Verstappen, Hamilton and Alonso gunning it in 2021 at the front of the grid? That would be legendary.
In the meantime, chin up Vettel, you need to get back to being good enough to be my villain!
I find Alonso much easier to dislike! Apparently he was at Monza in his role as an Ambassador for McLaren, but to see him sat on the pitwall with headphones on as though he was part of the racing team made me irrationally angry. I was disappointed his ambassadorial role did not seem to involve serving Ferrero Rocher in the McLaren motorhome.
Europa1 said:
I find Alonso much easier to dislike! Apparently he was at Monza in his role as an Ambassador for McLaren, but to see him sat on the pitwall with headphones on as though he was part of the racing team made me irrationally angry.
And then left the race before the end, apparently.37chevy said:
Alonso not good enough the first time to beat Hamilton, that you want 2 of him? Wow....that’s hardly fair :-p
I think it would be a very different outcome if they were in different teams with well matched cars - especially without Hamilton having the protection and advantage of Uncle Ron on his side.Nampahc Niloc said:
Vettel needs to retire. He’s become a danger to himself and those around him. The repeated mistakes are bad enough but that rejoin was HONG KONG HARBOUR STIR FRY. It could have ended in a very nasty accident.
Possible. But low speed. I'm not disagreeing that it might be time to retire, but I also feel for the drivers... minimal visibility due to HANS, and an urge to race and rejoin. Sitting calmly for 30 secs waiting for a marshal to wave him on doesn't sit well with any racer.
If it was so "disgusting" then he would have been black flagged.
Unless Vettel manages a few good races in a row, including a win, I don't see him being around next year. He just isn't in the right frame of mind anymore. If he was a rookie or an up-and-coming driver he'd be castrated for doing what he's doing currently. For a 4-time world champ to be doing this is just embarrassing!
NoAdverseDevelopments said:
Unless Vettel manages a few good races in a row, including a win, I don't see him being around next year. He just isn't in the right frame of mind anymore. If he was a rookie or an up-and-coming driver he'd be castrated for doing what he's doing currently. For a 4-time world champ to be doing this is just embarrassing!
He is contracted so I can see him doing 2020.I think it is a bit like Alonso/Hamilton at Mclaren but without the intra-team blackmail. Or Schumacher in his return to F1. Or the early races in 1994 for Senna.
Great drivers also get frustrated and have weaknesses?
I haven't read the recent posts tbh, but I saw the race today.. What is there to say? He's been a bit of a plumsack, again.
For me, the crucial fact is that today his team mate won the race, yet his actions lead to a penalty that ensured he could not make a points finish. As a result, CLC won the race, but Mercedes took home more points than Ferrari. Effectively, Mercedes won today - in championship terms.
Not being able to see if a car is coming is no excuse for returning to track. None of us would pull out of a junction if we had no idea if a car was coming! At the end of the day, he acted out of desperation/irritation - as so many times before. Within a few seconds his team could have told him when to go, but instead he went blindly and scooped an effective 30 second penalty as a result. Not to mention, he could have caused an almighty accident and been t-boned himself.
Mercedes won at Monza today. Vettel could have changed that. Not by not making a mistake, but just by not being daft following that mistake.
For me, the crucial fact is that today his team mate won the race, yet his actions lead to a penalty that ensured he could not make a points finish. As a result, CLC won the race, but Mercedes took home more points than Ferrari. Effectively, Mercedes won today - in championship terms.
Not being able to see if a car is coming is no excuse for returning to track. None of us would pull out of a junction if we had no idea if a car was coming! At the end of the day, he acted out of desperation/irritation - as so many times before. Within a few seconds his team could have told him when to go, but instead he went blindly and scooped an effective 30 second penalty as a result. Not to mention, he could have caused an almighty accident and been t-boned himself.
Mercedes won at Monza today. Vettel could have changed that. Not by not making a mistake, but just by not being daft following that mistake.
The Ferrari has in inherent instability on the rear axle by design, the absolute opposite of what VET likes in a car. To counter it his only way of getting his performance is by dialling in more grip on the front axle which naturally exasperates the problems at the rear.
VET can't drive around it, should anyone be surprised at that? It's not exactly a unknown that he's a "perfect car" driver.
His biggest problem is in having a teammate who can drive around the problem.
It's sad that such a champion is being rubbished for not being quite so good in a car for one year but, F1 is total competition. It seems his teammate's not so much minor indiscretions this season are being overlooked in the fog of victory.
I hope he doesn't resign or quit, if for no other reason than seeing VET V's LEC in a car both can get the best out of would be fantastic sport.
VET can't drive around it, should anyone be surprised at that? It's not exactly a unknown that he's a "perfect car" driver.
His biggest problem is in having a teammate who can drive around the problem.
It's sad that such a champion is being rubbished for not being quite so good in a car for one year but, F1 is total competition. It seems his teammate's not so much minor indiscretions this season are being overlooked in the fog of victory.
I hope he doesn't resign or quit, if for no other reason than seeing VET V's LEC in a car both can get the best out of would be fantastic sport.
It has to be frustrating to get a car that you just can't get to work for you, whilst it suits your junior team mate.
I'm sure it's not the first time it has happened over the years and it won't be the last.
Could still happen to Hamilton if Mercedes gave him a car that washed out the front but had a very planted rear - which is the opposite end of the operating scale for him. (In fact, didn't he have this issue with the McLarens when partnered with Button?)
I'm sure it's not the first time it has happened over the years and it won't be the last.
Could still happen to Hamilton if Mercedes gave him a car that washed out the front but had a very planted rear - which is the opposite end of the operating scale for him. (In fact, didn't he have this issue with the McLarens when partnered with Button?)
LaurasOtherHalf said:
The Ferrari has in inherent instability on the rear axle by design, the absolute opposite of what VET likes in a car. To counter it his only way of getting his performance is by dialling in more grip on the front axle which naturally exasperates the problems at the rear.
VET can't drive around it, should anyone be surprised at that? It's not exactly a unknown that he's a "perfect car" driver.
His biggest problem is in having a teammate who can drive around the problem.
It's sad that such a champion is being rubbished for not being quite so good in a car for one year but, F1 is total competition. It seems his teammate's not so much minor indiscretions this season are being overlooked in the fog of victory.
I hope he doesn't resign or quit, if for no other reason than seeing VET V's LEC in a car both can get the best out of would be fantastic sport.
I don't think he see's a seb vs charles battle. I don't think he has ever cared about what the media/pundits try to turn in to a drama in the sport.VET can't drive around it, should anyone be surprised at that? It's not exactly a unknown that he's a "perfect car" driver.
His biggest problem is in having a teammate who can drive around the problem.
It's sad that such a champion is being rubbished for not being quite so good in a car for one year but, F1 is total competition. It seems his teammate's not so much minor indiscretions this season are being overlooked in the fog of victory.
I hope he doesn't resign or quit, if for no other reason than seeing VET V's LEC in a car both can get the best out of would be fantastic sport.
And he is indeed a better driver than he gets credit for, he's a natural. His two flaws are that a) he won't tolerate a tricky car, b) he makes silly mistakes followed by silly reactions to those mistakes.
Today, he made a mistake. Not even a silly one, anyone could have made that mistake. But then the subsequent reaction, to return to track effectively blindly... That was dumb. I'm not saying his is dumb himself, he's clearly very clever. But he reacts badly in such situations. Today his reaction was dangerous, and in the end cost Ferrari in terms of points today - in spite of his team mates excellent work.
And I think we all know that, talented as he is, CLC is partly celebrated as he is because he's young and the new kid on the block. Vettel is still relevant though, hugely. But only if he wants to be and I'm really not sure his heart is in it anymore. I think he could walk - it's real possibility. More so because of his expanding personal life than his work performance.
Poppiecock said:
I
Could still happen to Hamilton if Mercedes gave him a car that washed out the front but had a very planted rear - which is the opposite end of the operating scale for him. (In fact, didn't he have this issue with the McLarens when partnered with Button?)
Indeed he did, he still managed to win in that car however.Could still happen to Hamilton if Mercedes gave him a car that washed out the front but had a very planted rear - which is the opposite end of the operating scale for him. (In fact, didn't he have this issue with the McLarens when partnered with Button?)
TheDeuce said:
Today, he made a mistake. Not even a silly one, anyone could have made that mistake. But then the subsequent reaction, to return to track effectively blindly... That was dumb. I'm not saying his is dumb himself, he's clearly very clever. But he reacts badly in such situations. Today his reaction was dangerous, and in the end cost Ferrari in terms of points today - in spite of his team mates excellent work.
I know, I know-I really can't disagree with you on that. I actually thought what he was doing was trying not to stall and get stuck on the curb-just my observation.Not that that changes anything, he still panicked. Or he genuinely didn't/couldn't see STR coming. We'll never know, in fact I doubt he himself will-he's been proven to completely make up his memory in these situations (not unknown in these type of events I know).
37chevy said:
Drumroll said:
Not deluded at all, just offering an opinion.
Well Vettel is either incompetent or he did it on purpose. 20 other drivers managed to get around the corner exiting the pits in every qualifying, practice session other than Vettel and Hulkenberg....one we accept did it on purpose....the other? Il let you make up your mind...LaurasOtherHalf said:
Indeed he did, he still managed to win in that car however.
Different times, different competition, and Seb may still win this season. Let's be honest, he has won once this season, but the officials took it off him. Regardless of your opinion of that, the fact is that he finished first. I think that decision really got to him - it's almost like that was the point at which he thought 'f
k this, it's just not worth it anymore'.At this point, I think he'll see out the season and wander off to do his family stuff.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff