Max Verstappen
Discussion
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Ocon just showed why he is struggling for a seat in 2019.
Why did Verstappen's mistake reflect badly on Ocon? Verstappen closed the door, leaving Ocon nowhere to go. As he said afterwards, Ocon managed the same move on many others through the afternoon without issue. I appreciate you don't know much about racing and that's fine, but I'm not sure how you could use that incident as some sort of example to suggest Ocon isn't deserving of a seat.
Ahonen said:
Why did Verstappen's mistake reflect badly on Ocon? Verstappen closed the door, leaving Ocon nowhere to go. As he said afterwards, Ocon managed the same move on many others through the afternoon without issue.
I appreciate you don't know much about racing and that's fine, but I'm not sure how you could use that incident as some sort of example to suggest Ocon isn't deserving of a seat.
If you think Ocon was in the right then it goes against what every expert is saying about the incident.I appreciate you don't know much about racing and that's fine, but I'm not sure how you could use that incident as some sort of example to suggest Ocon isn't deserving of a seat.
Perhaps you should do everyone a favour and read this
https://www.crash.net/f1/news/910213/1/whiting-oco...
But no doubt even Charlie is wrong
ELUSIVEJIM said:
sparta6 said:
Is Ocon a Mercedes employee ? 
You can see why that is being thrown around.But it was just a case of a very stupid move.
The only person who thought Verstappen was in the wrong was another Mercedes employee who did gain a win.
Even Ben Edwards stated Lewis "got lucky".
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Ahonen said:
Why did Verstappen's mistake reflect badly on Ocon? Verstappen closed the door, leaving Ocon nowhere to go. As he said afterwards, Ocon managed the same move on many others through the afternoon without issue.
I appreciate you don't know much about racing and that's fine, but I'm not sure how you could use that incident as some sort of example to suggest Ocon isn't deserving of a seat.
If you think Ocon was in the right then it goes against what every expert is saying about the incident.I appreciate you don't know much about racing and that's fine, but I'm not sure how you could use that incident as some sort of example to suggest Ocon isn't deserving of a seat.
Perhaps you should do everyone a favour and read this
https://www.crash.net/f1/news/910213/1/whiting-oco...
But no doubt even Charlie is wrong
Whiting can be wrong, and in this case is. Ocon was doing nothing wrong by trying to unlap himself. If that's what the 10sec penalty is for, then it is wrong.
Whiting has been criticised for his decisions many times. He is not an unimpeachable source of good sense. He's just like people; he can make mistakes.
RB is a bit like Ferrari were a few years ago. They are seen as special. I don't know if there was any bias in the decision, but one wonders what would have happened if a McLaren collided with a Haas in such crics. Or rather, one does not.
Verstappen was slower than Ocon. Ocon had his own race to run. The team needs to service its sponsors. Cruising about behind someone important just because they think they own the circuit is not likely to impress anyone.
It was a tremendous error by Verstappen to fight the corner. It cost him. Lewis was spot on in his comments. He might have done something similar a few years ago but that doesn't somehow make a stupid decision correct. The move did not surprise Verstappen, that much is clear. He must have been expecting it given that Ocon was right up his exaust pipe for two laps.
A racing incident made notorious by Verstappen's response. He will not improve until he's been told, and forcibly, about the error of his ways.
He'll learn, but he should be learning a bit quicker.
Whiting's comments make no sense.
A back marker may be lapped, but that doesn't mean he is no longer in a race. sitting behind a cruising race leader might mean that he is caught and overtaken by other competitors.
If Ocon was supposed to pass without batting for the position, then Verstappen should have let him through somewhere convenient, o at least not bothered trying to fight for the position. It was of no consequence to Verstappen if Ocon was in front or not.
A back marker may be lapped, but that doesn't mean he is no longer in a race. sitting behind a cruising race leader might mean that he is caught and overtaken by other competitors.
If Ocon was supposed to pass without batting for the position, then Verstappen should have let him through somewhere convenient, o at least not bothered trying to fight for the position. It was of no consequence to Verstappen if Ocon was in front or not.
And that is the rub of it. Verstappen had no need to get involved. It was simply stupid to get into a fight over position with someone you aren't actually racing.
Anything can happen in racing, people make mistakes and do silly things, the best drivers manage to generally avoid dodgy situations and know when to fight and not. Max seems to want to fight everyone, everywhere and doesn't yet have the maturity to realise what he is doing to himself.
As far as I'm concerned, Ocon was a bit daft, but Max holds the majority of the blame for the incident, he simply didn't need to be having that battle.
His ego wrote a cheque his body couldn't cash...
Anything can happen in racing, people make mistakes and do silly things, the best drivers manage to generally avoid dodgy situations and know when to fight and not. Max seems to want to fight everyone, everywhere and doesn't yet have the maturity to realise what he is doing to himself.
As far as I'm concerned, Ocon was a bit daft, but Max holds the majority of the blame for the incident, he simply didn't need to be having that battle.
His ego wrote a cheque his body couldn't cash...
sparta6 said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
sparta6 said:
Is Ocon a Mercedes employee ?
You can see why that is being thrown around.But it was just a case of a very stupid move.
The only person who thought Verstappen was in the wrong was another Mercedes employee who did gain a win.
Even Ben Edwards stated Lewis "got lucky".
cjm said:
Staying out of on track incidents like that helped Lewis win the championship and getting involved in them that cost Vettel. Max needs to learn that or he'll struggling to win a championship, he was crusing away from Lewis at the time.
I agree that he needs to calm down a bit more. Lewis felt the Max factor in US and yesterday was another reminder.Somehow Max has always look after his tyres better than Ricciardo, while remaining faster.
Derek Smith said:
Verstappen was slower than Ocon. Ocon had his own race to run.
Didn't Verstappen just catch and pass Ocon shortly before the incident? Thats the way I saw it, that Ocon got a better run off of T1 and tried to unlap himself. Fair enough, however if I understand correctly then he wasn't faster than Max at all, just on that particular corner of that particular lap he happened to be. aponting389 said:
Didn't Verstappen just catch and pass Ocon shortly before the incident? Thats the way I saw it, that Ocon got a better run off of T1 and tried to unlap himself. Fair enough, however if I understand correctly then he wasn't faster than Max at all, just on that particular corner of that particular lap he happened to be.
No. Ocon pitted for fresh super soft tyres and was sat behind max for a couple of laps before being allowed to overtake by the teamhttps://streamable.com/0bynn
Edited by 37chevy on Monday 12th November 13:07
Not the cleanest attempt by Ocon, you'd think with tyre advantage and engine advantage he could've managed a greater overlap and been ahead by the apex of turn 2 instead of just having his front tyre alongside Max's bargeboard.
As it played out it was f
king stupid of Max to expect him to just disappear though. By the looks of things, Max could've easily given Ocon room and emerged from the corner slightly ahead of Ocon with the shorter line around 3 and the inside line for 4 & 5.
Verstappen clearly hasn't got a WDC brain yet and his behaviour afterwards suggest his brain is letting him down outside of the car too.
Horner's sycophantic comments afterwards that Ocon was 'lucky to get away with just a push' were as puerile as Max's actions in the first place. He's a complete Max apologist.
Red Bull and Verstappen are showing signs of disappearing up each other's arses. It's hard to imagine Verstappen's actions going unchecked outside of the Red Bull bubble.
As it played out it was f
king stupid of Max to expect him to just disappear though. By the looks of things, Max could've easily given Ocon room and emerged from the corner slightly ahead of Ocon with the shorter line around 3 and the inside line for 4 & 5.Verstappen clearly hasn't got a WDC brain yet and his behaviour afterwards suggest his brain is letting him down outside of the car too.
Horner's sycophantic comments afterwards that Ocon was 'lucky to get away with just a push' were as puerile as Max's actions in the first place. He's a complete Max apologist.
Red Bull and Verstappen are showing signs of disappearing up each other's arses. It's hard to imagine Verstappen's actions going unchecked outside of the Red Bull bubble.
Edited by HustleRussell on Monday 12th November 13:11
HustleRussell said:
Not the cleanest attempt by Ocon, you'd think with tyre advantage and engine advantage he could've managed a greater overlap and been ahead by the apex of turn 2 instead of just having his front tyre alongside Max's bargeboard.
As it played out it was fking stupid of Max to expect him to just disappear though. By the looks of things, Max could've easily given Ocon room and emerged from the corner slightly ahead of Ocon with the shorter line around 3 and the inside line for 4 & 5.
Verstappen clearly hasn't got a WDC brain yet and his behaviour afterwards suggest his brain is letting him down outside of the car too.
Horner's sycophantic comments afterwards that Ocon was 'lucky to get away with just a push' were as puerile as Max's actions in the first place. He's a complete Max apologist.
Red Bull and Verstappen are showing signs of disappearing up each other's arses. It's hard to imagine Verstappen's actions going unchecked outside of the Red Bull bubble.
I think many drivers who are leading a race would be surprised by a backmarker trying to unlap themselves.As it played out it was f
king stupid of Max to expect him to just disappear though. By the looks of things, Max could've easily given Ocon room and emerged from the corner slightly ahead of Ocon with the shorter line around 3 and the inside line for 4 & 5.Verstappen clearly hasn't got a WDC brain yet and his behaviour afterwards suggest his brain is letting him down outside of the car too.
Horner's sycophantic comments afterwards that Ocon was 'lucky to get away with just a push' were as puerile as Max's actions in the first place. He's a complete Max apologist.
Red Bull and Verstappen are showing signs of disappearing up each other's arses. It's hard to imagine Verstappen's actions going unchecked outside of the Red Bull bubble.
Edited by HustleRussell on Monday 12th November 13:11
It's not often it happens as the top teams have such an advantage.
If you're attempting to pass the leader of the race you make sure you do it cleanly.
As I have said Ocon would not have attempted the same move on a Mercedes.
sparta6 said:
Someone has been very lucky with back markers in Brazil.
Even Ben Edwards stated Lewis "got lucky".
It's called luck of the champions. Verstapen trying to show off and push to get away from Hamilton who still try to follow despite engine problems and dead tyres then... crash. Reminds me Senna at Monaco... one of the most funny moment of past F1 I can remember. Arrogance at it's best! Even Ben Edwards stated Lewis "got lucky".
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