Max Verstappen

[mattikake]

Teddy Lop said:

simon_harris said:

It is really interesting to go back to the first post in this thread and see the discussion around max today is much the same.

He hasn't changed much though has he. As I've said many times in his "meteoric rise" he dodged learning his craft, that stupid and really quite narcissistic "me first or we crash" trademark move would and should have been knocked out of him in f2/3, in a trail of broken carbon.

He does have supreme speed and certainly a winners arrogance, but I think the ship has sailed on ever being a complete racing driver.

I have noticed a change in demeanor in how he talks to the media, the old offers of a jolly heat-butt etc have been replaced with what feels like a lot of suppression. I find myself wondering how big the blow will be.

Exactly. Max is the proof everyone needs that feeder series are a requirement. He has never learned to battle in cars with delicate bits hanging off. Nor at such a competitive level. To give space and .earn respect. There is even ego value (and fun) in outsmarting an opponent on wheel-to-wheel racecraft, but max doesn't know this because he's never experienced it. It's almost as if he needs demoting to F2 for a season.

RB, Jos, Marko are all at fault promoting him too soon. I fear max is permanently damaged.

[leef44]

slopes said:

Same here but i agree with your last comment, i think the inner 12 yr olds will take over and decide it all.

Agreed, I was surprised Liberty Media (sorry I mean FIA) did not penalise Max one point instead of 10 secs so that Lewis would win the championship if Max decided to just ram them both of the track. This way they know they are more likely to get a full race battle.

Although it would probably be higher profile media coverage if Max did just ram Lewis off the track so that probably also works for Liberty Media

[HustleRussell]

Max's 'running people off the track was fine in Brazil' is not the smartest thing for him to say, is it. He has proven at the earliest possible opportunity why Brazil was the wrong call and set a bad precedent.

[leef44]

HustleRussell said:

Max's 'running people off the track was fine in Brazil' is not the smartest thing for him to say, is it. He has proven at the earliest possible opportunity why Brazil was the wrong call and set a bad precedent.

In balance, didn't Lewis get a 10 second penalty when Albon tried to go round the outside of him at RedBull ring (Austria) a couple of years ago?

I can't remember whether Albon's car was a write off or whether he continued but ending quite far down in the field in the end.

So I guess, you win some you lose some.

[NRS]

cc3 said:

Seen it all before has talent but you can tell mentally he’s not prepared for pressure and his team are only making it worse. He’s basically cracking as he sees the championship disappearing. Taking unnecessary risks, walking out of the celebrations. You can see it in his face he’s folding

I don't think it is the championship pressure - he seems calm. It's just his technique and style, he's doing what he always does. It's why he crashed into Ocon when being overtaken by a backmarker for example - he just won't leave space.

[cc3]

mattikake said:

Teddy Lop said:

simon_harris said:

It is really interesting to go back to the first post in this thread and see the discussion around max today is much the same.

He hasn't changed much though has he. As I've said many times in his "meteoric rise" he dodged learning his craft, that stupid and really quite narcissistic "me first or we crash" trademark move would and should have been knocked out of him in f2/3, in a trail of broken carbon.

He does have supreme speed and certainly a winners arrogance, but I think the ship has sailed on ever being a complete racing driver.

I have noticed a change in demeanor in how he talks to the media, the old offers of a jolly heat-butt etc have been replaced with what feels like a lot of suppression. I find myself wondering how big the blow will be.

Exactly. Max is the proof everyone needs that feeder series are a requirement. He has never learned to battle in cars with delicate bits hanging off. Nor at such a competitive level. To give space and .earn respect. There is even ego value (and fun) in outsmarting an opponent on wheel-to-wheel racecraft, but max doesn't know this because he's never experienced it. It's almost as if he needs demoting to F2 for a season.

RB, Jos, Marko are all at fault promoting him too soon. I fear max is permanently damaged.

Good point re lack of experience in feeder series. Can’t see many sponsors wanting to be associated with him if he’s seen as a dirty driver

[Muzzer79]

cc3 said:

Good point re lack of experience in feeder series. Can’t see many sponsors wanting to be associated with him if he’s seen as a dirty driver

They are, and will remain, queuing at the door

No such thing as bad publicity. Just publicity.

[cc3]

Muzzer79 said:

cc3 said:

Good point re lack of experience in feeder series. Can’t see many sponsors wanting to be associated with him if he’s seen as a dirty driver

They are, and will remain, queuing at the door

No such thing as bad publicity. Just publicity.

Not so sure the western world is now more into equality etc. sponsors will not want to be associated with someone who might cheat to win a championship especially once some pressure is applied by the public through a good social media campaign.

[Hazmat1]

If Max is beaten to the title this year I think there is a chance he never wins it.

RB have had 7 years to come up with a title winning car and with the rule change is there chance that they will be the ones to ace it and be at the top again?

For all the prodigious talent and being hailed as the messiah and much better than Lewis etc, he still hasn't actually won anything of note.

[Teddy Lop]

cc3 said:

Muzzer79 said:

cc3 said:

Good point re lack of experience in feeder series. Can’t see many sponsors wanting to be associated with him if he’s seen as a dirty driver

They are, and will remain, queuing at the door

No such thing as bad publicity. Just publicity.

Not so sure the western world is now more into equality etc. sponsors will not want to be associated with someone who might cheat to win a championship especially once some pressure is applied by the public through a good social media campaign.

Max is the exception to the rule, plenty of drivers whose attitude was the primary reason for falling out with a team and no shortage of the likes of tictums where it prevented them even getting to F1.

Red bull seem to be actively cultivating this "bad boy" image though, I guess they see it as suiting the brand?

[Muzzer79]

Hazmat1 said:

If Max is beaten to the title this year I think there is a chance he never wins it.

RB have had 7 years to come up with a title winning car and with the rule change is there chance that they will be the ones to ace it and be at the top again?

For all the prodigious talent and being hailed as the messiah and much better than Lewis etc, he still hasn't actually won anything of note.

I think it's important to be clear that, unless he's very unlucky with the teams he drives for and they produce poor cars, Max will be a multiple world champion.

If RB have a slow car post-rule change, he'll be off to Ferrari, Mercedes or whichever team is winning like a rat up a drainpipe and they'll snap him up in a heartbeat.

Plus, to be fair, he entered F1 at 17. He didn't get a chance to win stuff in the lower formulae because he just bypassed them. Time has proven that to be the correct decision, in terms of speed and race wins in F1 at least.

[paulguitar]

Muzzer79 said:

Plus, to be fair, he entered F1 at 17. He didn't get a chance to win stuff in the lower formulae because he just bypassed them. Time has proven that to be the correct decision, in terms of speed and race wins in F1 at least.

I think it's looking more and more as if Max entering F1 at 17 may have been a serious misjudgment, both for Max and for F1.

[deadslow]

paulguitar said:

Muzzer79 said:

Plus, to be fair, he entered F1 at 17. He didn't get a chance to win stuff in the lower formulae because he just bypassed them. Time has proven that to be the correct decision, in terms of speed and race wins in F1 at least.

I think it's looking more and more as if Max entering F1 at 17 may have been a serious misjudgment, both for Max and for F1.

nah, he's just a very tough driver and we are witnessing a changing of the order. Its been a great year.

[simon_harris]

Muzzer79 said:

I think it's important to be clear that, unless he's very unlucky with the teams he drives for and they produce poor cars, Max will be a multiple world champion.

If RB have a slow car post-rule change, he'll be off to Ferrari, Mercedes or whichever team is winning like a rat up a drainpipe and they'll snap him up in a heartbeat.

Plus, to be fair, he entered F1 at 17. He didn't get a chance to win stuff in the lower formulae because he just bypassed them. Time has proven that to be the correct decision, in terms of speed and race wins in F1 at least.

If Max wants to win championships he needs to moderate his driving style, simple as that. He has enormous potential if only he can harness it, sadly he hasn't been able to do that so far and there are no signs he thinks he needs to.

I think he has also burned his bridges at Mercedes with his comments about Toto.

[S600BSB]

deadslow said:

paulguitar said:

Muzzer79 said:

Plus, to be fair, he entered F1 at 17. He didn't get a chance to win stuff in the lower formulae because he just bypassed them. Time has proven that to be the correct decision, in terms of speed and race wins in F1 at least.

I think it's looking more and more as if Max entering F1 at 17 may have been a serious misjudgment, both for Max and for F1.

nah, he's just a very tough driver and we are witnessing a changing of the order. Its been a great year.

Couldn't agree more. The sport was on its knees and the rise of Max has made it worth watching again!

[llewop]

S600BSB said:

deadslow said:

paulguitar said:

Muzzer79 said:

Plus, to be fair, he entered F1 at 17. He didn't get a chance to win stuff in the lower formulae because he just bypassed them. Time has proven that to be the correct decision, in terms of speed and race wins in F1 at least.

I think it's looking more and more as if Max entering F1 at 17 may have been a serious misjudgment, both for Max and for F1.

nah, he's just a very tough driver and we are witnessing a changing of the order. Its been a great year.

Couldn't agree more. The sport was on its knees and the rise of Max has made it worth watching again!

Couldn't disagree more. He is a petulant unrestrained brat. His assumption is everyone else should jump out of his way and he will crash into them until they learn. He is a menace and unless things change will hurt someone, but it will be their fault in his eyes, 'should have left a gap'....

If he is the future of F1 then I'm not interested. I was feeling sick through that last race.

[MustangGT]

Muzzer79 said:

I think it's important to be clear that, unless he's very unlucky with the teams he drives for and they produce poor cars, Max will be a multiple world champion.

On what do you base your confidence?

To this point in time he has won precisely nothing of note. The year in single seaters (2014) he finished behind Blomquist and Ocon.

From what I have seen over the years he has been in F1, he is blindingly fast but has very little race-craft. He has now been in F1 long enough to have learnt how to race, so far he has shown no sign of having learnt anything. His 'race-craft' consists of ignoring the rules, and common sense, and trying to prevent anybody from passing him, by fair means of foul. His temperament does not appear to have improved over the years, in this he is being held back by Marko, Jos and Horner who are too busy enabling his behaviour to actually teach him how to race.

As for anybody thinking he can go to Mercedes he has no chance, he is as far away from their model driver as it is possible to get.

There are quite a few other drivers in F1 that have as good, or better, a chance of multiple WDCs:

George R
Lando N
Charles L
Carlos S
Danny R

and probably Pierre G.

[Cabinet Enforcer]

MustangGT said:

There are quite a few other drivers in F1 that have as good, or better, a chance of multiple WDCs:

George R
Lando N
Charles L
Carlos S
Danny R

and probably Pierre G.

This is what will stop Max winning, the "yield or crash" approach only works when there is just one opponent, in a three or four way battle the other drivers will start to take the crash option more often and it's power is removed.

[Tommo87]

paulguitar said:

Muzzer79 said:

Plus, to be fair, he entered F1 at 17. He didn't get a chance to win stuff in the lower formulae because he just bypassed them. Time has proven that to be the correct decision, in terms of speed and race wins in F1 at least.

I think it's looking more and more as if Max entering F1 at 17 may have been a serious misjudgment, both for Max and for F1.

I have to agree. He displays and immaturity that would never be there, if he had matured in the lower series.

[Tommo87]

MustangGT said:

Muzzer79 said:

I think it's important to be clear that, unless he's very unlucky with the teams he drives for and they produce poor cars, Max will be a multiple world champion.

On what do you base your confidence?

To this point in time he has won precisely nothing of note. The year in single seaters (2014) he finished behind Blomquist and Ocon.

From what I have seen over the years he has been in F1, he is blindingly fast but has very little race-craft. He has now been in F1 long enough to have learnt how to race, so far he has shown no sign of having learnt anything. His 'race-craft' consists of ignoring the rules, and common sense, and trying to prevent anybody from passing him, by fair means of foul. His temperament does not appear to have improved over the years, in this he is being held back by Marko, Jos and Horner who are too busy enabling his behaviour to actually teach him how to race.

As for anybody thinking he can go to Mercedes he has no chance, he is as far away from their model driver as it is possible to get.

There are quite a few other drivers in F1 that have as good, or better, a chance of multiple WDCs:

George R
Lando N
Charles L
Carlos S
Danny R

and probably Pierre G.

I think he might be stuck at RB come rain or shine unless one of the above fails to deliver in a better seat.