Max Verstappen
Discussion
I am no Verstappen fan, but neither am I really a fan of Ocon.
Ocon shouldn't be throwing one up the outside of the race leader when trying to unlap himself, similarly Verstappen should not be defending something like that when he has an easy race win in the bag. I don't agree with Ocons penalty but then I don't think either driver was fully to blame, they should have both seen that coming and pulled out.
I mentioned to the wife when it happened that's the difference between Verstappen and the likes of Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel (other than this year of course), Raikkonen et all. They'd have seen that coming, got out of it and then got on the radio to complain, its the moniker of a WDC to know when to hop out the way of another car to maintain an advantageous position.
Hamilton had to learn it the hard way too so I suspect we will see Verstappen to continue to grow as a driver on track, I think he has been improving this year on that, off track though he continues to be a problem, one that the team should be dealing with not going onto live TV and suggesting that their driver should be lumping other drivers.
Ocon shouldn't be throwing one up the outside of the race leader when trying to unlap himself, similarly Verstappen should not be defending something like that when he has an easy race win in the bag. I don't agree with Ocons penalty but then I don't think either driver was fully to blame, they should have both seen that coming and pulled out.
I mentioned to the wife when it happened that's the difference between Verstappen and the likes of Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel (other than this year of course), Raikkonen et all. They'd have seen that coming, got out of it and then got on the radio to complain, its the moniker of a WDC to know when to hop out the way of another car to maintain an advantageous position.
Hamilton had to learn it the hard way too so I suspect we will see Verstappen to continue to grow as a driver on track, I think he has been improving this year on that, off track though he continues to be a problem, one that the team should be dealing with not going onto live TV and suggesting that their driver should be lumping other drivers.
768 said:
There's a difference between unlapping yourself and racing, poorly, against someone who's effectively not in your race.
If only Max understood that. Yet even then he sought to close the door on Ocon who had brand new boots - Why? I mean, Ocon is not racing him BUT running his own race, and he needs to use those tyres whilst he has the grip. HustleRussell said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
The only person who thought Verstappen was in the wrong was another Mercedes employee who did gain a win.
That's obviously b
ks as usual Jim. show us the interview or link where Lewis said Max was in the wrong, all lewis said, is you always make sure theres room and ocon had nothing to lose
No doubt Toto is wrong as well.
In the near future people will not be able to talk about the incident between Max Verstappen and Esteban Ocon at Interlagos. The two came into contact with each other, so Verstappen saw his chance of victory go up in smoke. David Coulthard believes that you should be fair to the leader and Toto Wolff shares that opinion.
Verstappen went on to lead the Brazilian Grand Prix when he came into contact with rear-end Ocon in lap 44. The two got together and ended up in a spinning. The Red Bull driver fell back to second place and was furious. Afterwards, he looked for Ocon. A few pushes were handed out.
"The fact that Max distributes a few pushes to Esteban is also part of the show: if everything always goes the Peppi and Kokki-like way and in accordance with the rules, where is the passion and entertainment, we need these things ", continues Coulthard his story. In the story of Verstappen and Ocon, De Schot does not want to point out a guilty party but emphasizes that a back car must always show respect towards the race leader.
"Esteban was driving his own race and tried to do his own thing, but I think you should always be fair to the leader," he says. Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff shares this opinion. Ocon is a protégé of Mercedes and so Coulthard found it relevant to ask Wolff for his opinion. "He said: 'It is never good when the leader of a race gets involved in an incident with a car in the back.' His opinion seems to be that you always have to respect the leader in the game, even if you want to get rid of a lap behind, "says Coulthard.
In the near future people will not be able to talk about the incident between Max Verstappen and Esteban Ocon at Interlagos. The two came into contact with each other, so Verstappen saw his chance of victory go up in smoke. David Coulthard believes that you should be fair to the leader and Toto Wolff shares that opinion.
Verstappen went on to lead the Brazilian Grand Prix when he came into contact with rear-end Ocon in lap 44. The two got together and ended up in a spinning. The Red Bull driver fell back to second place and was furious. Afterwards, he looked for Ocon. A few pushes were handed out.
"The fact that Max distributes a few pushes to Esteban is also part of the show: if everything always goes the Peppi and Kokki-like way and in accordance with the rules, where is the passion and entertainment, we need these things ", continues Coulthard his story. In the story of Verstappen and Ocon, De Schot does not want to point out a guilty party but emphasizes that a back car must always show respect towards the race leader.
"Esteban was driving his own race and tried to do his own thing, but I think you should always be fair to the leader," he says. Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff shares this opinion. Ocon is a protégé of Mercedes and so Coulthard found it relevant to ask Wolff for his opinion. "He said: 'It is never good when the leader of a race gets involved in an incident with a car in the back.' His opinion seems to be that you always have to respect the leader in the game, even if you want to get rid of a lap behind, "says Coulthard.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 12th November 13:48
37chevy said:
Jim
show us the interview or link where Lewis said Max was in the wrong, all lewis said, is you always make sure theres room and ocon had nothing to lose
It's clear what is being referred. show us the interview or link where Lewis said Max was in the wrong, all lewis said, is you always make sure theres room and ocon had nothing to lose
Verstappen, still visibly furious, told Raikkonen that Ocon had taken him out.
However, while discussing the incident with the Red Bull driver, Hamilton told Verstappen that Ocon had the right to unlap himself.
Verstappen agreed, yet added: “But you can't crash into the leader, who's not doing anything crazy.”
Hamilton responded with: “You had more to lose than he did. He had nothing to lose.”
I can see Ocon in the mercedes in 2020 even if Bottas has a great season. At the end of the day VB would have had 3 seasons in the car and should slot into another top team ok.
Anyone thinking its hamilton who will step aside for ocon is deluded unless he chooses to walk away.
Ocon is the ideal driver to go forward into a multi season max rivalry as he wont take any nonsense.
Anyone thinking its hamilton who will step aside for ocon is deluded unless he chooses to walk away.
Ocon is the ideal driver to go forward into a multi season max rivalry as he wont take any nonsense.
turbomoped said:
I can see Ocon in the mercedes in 2020 even if Bottas has a great season. At the end of the day VB would have had 3 seasons in the car and should slot into another top team ok.
Anyone thinking its hamilton who will step aside for ocon is deluded unless he chooses to walk away.
Ocon is the ideal driver to go forward into a multi season max rivalry as he wont take any nonsense.
I agree that I doubt Lewis would retire in 2020. The new rule changes might put him off but I am sure he will be looking to at least match Schumacher.Anyone thinking its hamilton who will step aside for ocon is deluded unless he chooses to walk away.
Ocon is the ideal driver to go forward into a multi season max rivalry as he wont take any nonsense.
As for Ocon replacing Bottas, I doubt he would be any better.
Think whoever signs for Mercedes in the next few years will 100% depend on Lewis.
It has shown when the garage is happy at Mercedes you get the best out of Hamilton so why rock the boat.
I haven't watched the race or highlights but why would Max risk any incidents by defending against Ocon. If he was on new tyres, just let him past and race his own race against Lewis. The battle would only slow Max down.
I think that Max still doesn't know what he should about F1, the rules and how to race. Needless incidents and penalties like Monza against Bottas show this. He needs to grow up and stop blaming every other driver. Pushing Ocon in the driver weigh room after the race shows he is still a spoilt kid who didn't get his way.
I think that Max still doesn't know what he should about F1, the rules and how to race. Needless incidents and penalties like Monza against Bottas show this. He needs to grow up and stop blaming every other driver. Pushing Ocon in the driver weigh room after the race shows he is still a spoilt kid who didn't get his way.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
No doubt Toto is wrong as well.
In the near future people will not be able to talk about the incident between Max Verstappen and Esteban Ocon at Interlagos. The two came into contact with each other, so Verstappen saw his chance of victory go up in smoke. David Coulthard believes that you should be fair to the leader and Toto Wolff shares that opinion.
Verstappen went on to lead the Brazilian Grand Prix when he came into contact with rear-end Ocon in lap 44. The two got together and ended up in a spinning. The Red Bull driver fell back to second place and was furious. Afterwards, he looked for Ocon. A few pushes were handed out.
"The fact that Max distributes a few pushes to Esteban is also part of the show: if everything always goes the Peppi and Kokki-like way and in accordance with the rules, where is the passion and entertainment, we need these things ", continues Coulthard his story. In the story of Verstappen and Ocon, De Schot does not want to point out a guilty party but emphasizes that a back car must always show respect towards the race leader.
"Esteban was driving his own race and tried to do his own thing, but I think you should always be fair to the leader," he says. Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff shares this opinion. Ocon is a protégé of Mercedes and so Coulthard found it relevant to ask Wolff for his opinion. "He said: 'It is never good when the leader of a race gets involved in an incident with a car in the back.' His opinion seems to be that you always have to respect the leader in the game, even if you want to get rid of a lap behind, "says Coulthard.
Yes, entirely ok by respecting the leaders which Ocon did by overtaking on the outside then Verstapen for some reasons shut the door a soon as he feel Ocon had made the right move. As Hamilton said, you had a lot more to lose (by doing so). Ocon V Verstapen started in Karting and I think that Verstapen couldn't stand to see Ocon overtaking him. Shame as he was going for a supreme win! In the near future people will not be able to talk about the incident between Max Verstappen and Esteban Ocon at Interlagos. The two came into contact with each other, so Verstappen saw his chance of victory go up in smoke. David Coulthard believes that you should be fair to the leader and Toto Wolff shares that opinion.
Verstappen went on to lead the Brazilian Grand Prix when he came into contact with rear-end Ocon in lap 44. The two got together and ended up in a spinning. The Red Bull driver fell back to second place and was furious. Afterwards, he looked for Ocon. A few pushes were handed out.
"The fact that Max distributes a few pushes to Esteban is also part of the show: if everything always goes the Peppi and Kokki-like way and in accordance with the rules, where is the passion and entertainment, we need these things ", continues Coulthard his story. In the story of Verstappen and Ocon, De Schot does not want to point out a guilty party but emphasizes that a back car must always show respect towards the race leader.
"Esteban was driving his own race and tried to do his own thing, but I think you should always be fair to the leader," he says. Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff shares this opinion. Ocon is a protégé of Mercedes and so Coulthard found it relevant to ask Wolff for his opinion. "He said: 'It is never good when the leader of a race gets involved in an incident with a car in the back.' His opinion seems to be that you always have to respect the leader in the game, even if you want to get rid of a lap behind, "says Coulthard.
Edited by ELUSIVEJIM on Monday 12th November 13:48
E34-3.2 said:
Yes, entirely ok by respecting the leaders which Ocon did by overtaking on the outside then Verstapen for some reasons shut the door a soon as he feel Ocon had made the right move. As Hamilton said, you had a lot more to lose (by doing so). Ocon V Verstapen started in Karting and I think that Verstapen couldn't stand to see Ocon overtaking him. Shame as he was going for a supreme win!
I still feel that Ocon could have backed out of it and attempted a pass again down the new DRS straight where the Mercedes engine was clearly faster.It was a shame it happened but hopefully, everyone learns.
E34-3.2 said:
sparta6 said:
Someone has been very lucky with back markers in Brazil.
Even Ben Edwards stated Lewis "got lucky".
It's called luck of the champions. Verstapen trying to show off and push to get away from Hamilton who still try to follow despite engine problems and dead tyres then... crash. Reminds me Senna at Monaco... one of the most funny moment of past F1 I can remember. Arrogance at it's best! Even Ben Edwards stated Lewis "got lucky".
No doubt Lewis has been at his peak in 2018.
sparta6 said:
Yes, and we also remember when Lewis was crashing into Massa on an almost fortnightly basis
No doubt Lewis has been at his peak in 2018.
I reckon both cars Were equip with special magnet to attract each others during that infamous season. No doubt Lewis has been at his peak in 2018.
)2018, definitely his peak, I can see Vettel bouncing back for 2019. Max might be involve more heavily in the championship as well.
Ocon was the fastest person on track when he they clattered each other on T2. He was on fresh s/softs and wanted to get the best use out of them whilst they were new. He was 0.250 seconds a lap faster than MV.
If he'd stayed behind MV he would have wasted that. He was after Sainz ahead and if he hadn't of pushed his way passed he'd never had a hope of getting the Renault. He would have been stuck behind the Red Bull for the rest of the race.
So with MV not wanting Ocon to unlap himself, by obvioulsy making it difficult, he had to throw one up the outside.
When it comes down to it, MV knew Ocon was around, he knew Ocon was unlapping himself, and he turned into T2 with no condideration for his race and those around him. 50/50 blame.
Verstappen needs to keep a lid on his temper and attitude though. Saying he wanted to break something after missing his mexico pole, and then saying that he hoped Ocon didn't meet him in the paddock, and with the language he freely uses, he's getting the wrong publicity..
If he'd stayed behind MV he would have wasted that. He was after Sainz ahead and if he hadn't of pushed his way passed he'd never had a hope of getting the Renault. He would have been stuck behind the Red Bull for the rest of the race.
So with MV not wanting Ocon to unlap himself, by obvioulsy making it difficult, he had to throw one up the outside.
When it comes down to it, MV knew Ocon was around, he knew Ocon was unlapping himself, and he turned into T2 with no condideration for his race and those around him. 50/50 blame.
Verstappen needs to keep a lid on his temper and attitude though. Saying he wanted to break something after missing his mexico pole, and then saying that he hoped Ocon didn't meet him in the paddock, and with the language he freely uses, he's getting the wrong publicity..
ELUSIVEJIM said:
It's clear what is being referred.
Verstappen, still visibly furious, told Raikkonen that Ocon had taken him out.
However, while discussing the incident with the Red Bull driver, Hamilton told Verstappen that Ocon had the right to unlap himself.
Verstappen agreed, yet added: “But you can't crash into the leader, who's not doing anything crazy.”
Hamilton responded with: “You had more to lose than he did. He had nothing to lose.”
its not clear at all.Verstappen, still visibly furious, told Raikkonen that Ocon had taken him out.
However, while discussing the incident with the Red Bull driver, Hamilton told Verstappen that Ocon had the right to unlap himself.
Verstappen agreed, yet added: “But you can't crash into the leader, who's not doing anything crazy.”
Hamilton responded with: “You had more to lose than he did. He had nothing to lose.”
Lewis told max he had more to lose....inferring that if lewis was in Maxs position he would have backed out or given more room. that's not blaming Max or saying he was in the wrong, its stating an opinion about what he would have done in the same situation...and maybe a bit of experienced advice for Max
I thought the genius that Max showed on his way to the front yesterday showed why he will one day be crowned WDC.
The way he threw away the lead yesterday shows why he will struggle until Lewis decides to retire and hand-on the baton - say 2021.
Max clearly thinks he has to prove himself against everyone. He likes to recall his racing in Karts, but a 90-min F1 race requires a different skillset.
The incident in the garage merely amplified how mentally immature he still is.
The way he threw away the lead yesterday shows why he will struggle until Lewis decides to retire and hand-on the baton - say 2021.
Max clearly thinks he has to prove himself against everyone. He likes to recall his racing in Karts, but a 90-min F1 race requires a different skillset.
The incident in the garage merely amplified how mentally immature he still is.
E34-3.2 said:
I reckon both cars Were equip with special magnet to attract each others during that infamous season. )
2018, definitely his peak, I can see Vettel bouncing back for 2019. Max might be involve more heavily in the championship as well.
IMO Hamilton has broken Vettel. )2018, definitely his peak, I can see Vettel bouncing back for 2019. Max might be involve more heavily in the championship as well.
LeClerc could be the man to watch.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
David Coulthard believes that you should be fair to the leader and Toto Wolff shares that opinion.
Anyone remember the time when Coulthard was behind Eric Bernoldi in the Arrows at Monaco and threw his dummy out of the pram because Bernoldi - who was ahead of Coulthard - wouldn't let him through?Edited by ELUSIVEJIM on Monday 12th November 13:48
The pot has finally met the kettle!
37chevy said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
It's clear what is being referred.
Verstappen, still visibly furious, told Raikkonen that Ocon had taken him out.
However, while discussing the incident with the Red Bull driver, Hamilton told Verstappen that Ocon had the right to unlap himself.
Verstappen agreed, yet added: “But you can't crash into the leader, who's not doing anything crazy.”
Hamilton responded with: “You had more to lose than he did. He had nothing to lose.”
its not clear at all.Verstappen, still visibly furious, told Raikkonen that Ocon had taken him out.
However, while discussing the incident with the Red Bull driver, Hamilton told Verstappen that Ocon had the right to unlap himself.
Verstappen agreed, yet added: “But you can't crash into the leader, who's not doing anything crazy.”
Hamilton responded with: “You had more to lose than he did. He had nothing to lose.”
Lewis told max he had more to lose....inferring that if lewis was in Maxs position he would have backed out or given more room. that's not blaming Max or saying he was in the wrong, its stating an opinion about what he would have done in the same situation...and maybe a bit of experienced advice for Max
It could well be Max, Lewis, Le Clerc and Vettel all duking it out next season.
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