Max Verstappen
Discussion
sortedcossie said:
I think that one post has very well summed up this 100 page thread.
He does have talent, that isn't in doubt, I find the way he acts like a petulant kid the problem combined with a team that is disliked. I also thought Verstappen Snr's reaction when Perez last won very telling, he refused to congratulate.
Jos Verstappen appears to be a genuinely nasty person. I find Max fairly hard to like, but given the parenting he received, and now having some seriously dodgy people around him, (Horner, Marco, Jos) I actually think he could have turned out a lot worse.He does have talent, that isn't in doubt, I find the way he acts like a petulant kid the problem combined with a team that is disliked. I also thought Verstappen Snr's reaction when Perez last won very telling, he refused to congratulate.
paulguitar said:
sortedcossie said:
I think that one post has very well summed up this 100 page thread.
He does have talent, that isn't in doubt, I find the way he acts like a petulant kid the problem combined with a team that is disliked. I also thought Verstappen Snr's reaction when Perez last won very telling, he refused to congratulate.
Jos Verstappen appears to be a genuinely nasty person. I find Max fairly hard to like, but given the parenting he received, and now having some seriously dodgy people around him, (Horner, Marco, Jos) I actually think he could have turned out a lot worse.He does have talent, that isn't in doubt, I find the way he acts like a petulant kid the problem combined with a team that is disliked. I also thought Verstappen Snr's reaction when Perez last won very telling, he refused to congratulate.
The Verstappen family have their own issues, Jos never exactly stood out as an F1 driver, his most memorable moment being a pit-lane conflagration at Hockenheim when he drove for Benetton. I think that he became focussed on succeeding in F1 vicariously through Max, and the combination of Verstappen Jr and Red Bull is greater than the sum of its parts, Red Bull and Adrian Newey having eventually come up with a car and engine combination the hard way (taking Honda as an engine supplier at a time when they were supplying McLaren with underperforming and unreliable power units and turning them around shows how Red Bull aren't afraid of taking the hard decisions and making them work), and breaking the Mercedes monopoly demonstrates real commitment.
Formula 1 is not a soap opera, although the increasing Disneyfication of the sport may be taking it in that direction. Red Bull are a proper racing team, run by proper racers and while Max remains with the team, so will his emotionally-flawed father, unfortunately. The Hamilton fans might not like it now that Mercedes are having their backsides handed to them, but he's fast approaching his use-by date anyway. He had his time in a dominant team and car, and made the most of it, and as is the way of the world, another team has made a better car and has a driver capable of using it to dominate the sport.
In a few seasons, somebody else will come along and interpret the rules even better than Adrian Newey, with a young hotshot driver.
And we can trot out the same old arguments all over again. Providing Liberty Media or whoever owns the commercial rights hasn't sold everything to Netflix, and we have pit stops at pre-determined times to allow for adverts.
Dermot O'Logical said:
Marko. Not Marco. You should know that, Paul. A very decent driver in his day, to the extent of winning Le Mans in a Porsche 917. Not a man to be trifled with, but he has a proper racing pedigree, as does Christian Horner, who made it as far as F3000 as a driver, then set up and ran his own team, Arden, again at F3 and F3000 level with some success. Red Bull are a team of racers, not corporate yes-men.
The Verstappen family have their own issues, Jos never exactly stood out as an F1 driver, his most memorable moment being a pit-lane conflagration at Hockenheim when he drove for Benetton. I think that he became focussed on succeeding in F1 vicariously through Max, and the combination of Verstappen Jr and Red Bull is greater than the sum of its parts, Red Bull and Adrian Newey having eventually come up with a car and engine combination the hard way (taking Honda as an engine supplier at a time when they were supplying McLaren with underperforming and unreliable power units and turning them around shows how Red Bull aren't afraid of taking the hard decisions and making them work), and breaking the Mercedes monopoly demonstrates real commitment.
Formula 1 is not a soap opera, although the increasing Disneyfication of the sport may be taking it in that direction. Red Bull are a proper racing team, run by proper racers and while Max remains with the team, so will his emotionally-flawed father, unfortunately. The Hamilton fans might not like it now that Mercedes are having their backsides handed to them, but he's fast approaching his use-by date anyway. He had his time in a dominant team and car, and made the most of it, and as is the way of the world, another team has made a better car and has a driver capable of using it to dominate the sport.
In a few seasons, somebody else will come along and interpret the rules even better than Adrian Newey, with a young hotshot driver.
And we can trot out the same old arguments all over again. Providing Liberty Media or whoever owns the commercial rights hasn't sold everything to Netflix, and we have pit stops at pre-determined times to allow for adverts.
The Verstappen family have their own issues, Jos never exactly stood out as an F1 driver, his most memorable moment being a pit-lane conflagration at Hockenheim when he drove for Benetton. I think that he became focussed on succeeding in F1 vicariously through Max, and the combination of Verstappen Jr and Red Bull is greater than the sum of its parts, Red Bull and Adrian Newey having eventually come up with a car and engine combination the hard way (taking Honda as an engine supplier at a time when they were supplying McLaren with underperforming and unreliable power units and turning them around shows how Red Bull aren't afraid of taking the hard decisions and making them work), and breaking the Mercedes monopoly demonstrates real commitment.
Formula 1 is not a soap opera, although the increasing Disneyfication of the sport may be taking it in that direction. Red Bull are a proper racing team, run by proper racers and while Max remains with the team, so will his emotionally-flawed father, unfortunately. The Hamilton fans might not like it now that Mercedes are having their backsides handed to them, but he's fast approaching his use-by date anyway. He had his time in a dominant team and car, and made the most of it, and as is the way of the world, another team has made a better car and has a driver capable of using it to dominate the sport.
In a few seasons, somebody else will come along and interpret the rules even better than Adrian Newey, with a young hotshot driver.
And we can trot out the same old arguments all over again. Providing Liberty Media or whoever owns the commercial rights hasn't sold everything to Netflix, and we have pit stops at pre-determined times to allow for adverts.
paulguitar said:
Jos Verstappen appears to be a genuinely nasty person. I find Max fairly hard to like, but given the parenting he received, and now having some seriously dodgy people around him, (Horner, Marco, Jos) I actually think he could have turned out a lot worse.
What do you mean dodgy. Why do so many hate on success. Horner is probably the best team principle in the paddock. His ability to keep a team together and also manage highly talented people like Verstappen and Newey has to be respected. The whole paddock would want a huge number of his employees and if he didn't create the right culture I'm sure they'd be off to ventures new. He probably has the most pressure on his shoulders for the demand for success that only a Ferrari team principle can match. As has been mentioned already Dr Marko will always be alright in my book. anyone that can peddle a 917 at 240mph is a legend and can be forgiven for almost anything.
Presuming Ed said:
What do you mean dodgy. Why do so many hate on success. Horner is probably the best team principle in the paddock. His ability to keep a team together and also manage highly talented people like Verstappen and Newey has to be respected. The whole paddock would want a huge number of his employees and if he didn't create the right culture I'm sure they'd be off to ventures new. He probably has the most pressure on his shoulders for the demand for success that only a Ferrari team principle can match
I am sorry but Horner might be the best team principle in the paddock in your eyes but he is a hard person to like, smug factor 9 at the moment with Max winning all the time, don't like himPresuming Ed said:
paulguitar said:
Jos Verstappen appears to be a genuinely nasty person. I find Max fairly hard to like, but given the parenting he received, and now having some seriously dodgy people around him, (Horner, Marco, Jos) I actually think he could have turned out a lot worse.
What do you mean dodgy. Why do so many hate on success. Horner is probably the best team principle in the paddock. His ability to keep a team together and also manage highly talented people like Verstappen and Newey has to be respected. The whole paddock would want a huge number of his employees and if he didn't create the right culture I'm sure they'd be off to ventures new. He probably has the most pressure on his shoulders for the demand for success that only a Ferrari team principle can match. As has been mentioned already Dr Marko will always be alright in my book. anyone that can peddle a 917 at 240mph is a legend and can be forgiven for almost anything.
Dermot O'Logical said:
Presuming Ed said:
paulguitar said:
Jos Verstappen appears to be a genuinely nasty person. I find Max fairly hard to like, but given the parenting he received, and now having some seriously dodgy people around him, (Horner, Marco, Jos) I actually think he could have turned out a lot worse.
What do you mean dodgy. Why do so many hate on success. Horner is probably the best team principle in the paddock. His ability to keep a team together and also manage highly talented people like Verstappen and Newey has to be respected. The whole paddock would want a huge number of his employees and if he didn't create the right culture I'm sure they'd be off to ventures new. He probably has the most pressure on his shoulders for the demand for success that only a Ferrari team principle can match. As has been mentioned already Dr Marko will always be alright in my book. anyone that can peddle a 917 at 240mph is a legend and can be forgiven for almost anything.
Presuming Ed said:
What do you mean dodgy. Why do so many hate on success. Horner is probably the best team principle in the paddock. His ability to keep a team together and also manage highly talented people like Verstappen and Newey has to be respected. The whole paddock would want a huge number of his employees and if he didn't create the right culture I'm sure they'd be off to ventures new. He probably has the most pressure on his shoulders for the demand for success that only a Ferrari team principle can match.
As has been mentioned already Dr Marko will always be alright in my book. anyone that can peddle a 917 at 240mph is a legend and can be forgiven for almost anything.
It's absolutely nothing to do with 'hate on success'. My favourite drivers have been Lauda, Hakkinen, and Hamilton. I like success...As has been mentioned already Dr Marko will always be alright in my book. anyone that can peddle a 917 at 240mph is a legend and can be forgiven for almost anything.
Horner, Marko, and Jos are not a good influence for Max to have around him, in my opinion. He needs someone like Niki who would tell him when he's wrong.
I also respect anyone who's driven a 917 in anger, but don't share your view that this means 'they can be forgiven for almost anything'.
paulguitar said:
It's absolutely nothing to do with 'hate on success'. My favourite drivers have been Lauda, Hakkinen, and Hamilton. I like success...
Horner, Marko, and Jos are not a good influence for Max to have around him, in my opinion. He needs someone like Niki who would tell him when he's wrong.
I also respect anyone who's driven a 917 in anger, but don't share your view that this means 'they can be forgiven for almost anything'.
Double World Champion and just won three races on the bounce but don't worry Max here's Paul with some timley advice on where you're going wrong Horner, Marko, and Jos are not a good influence for Max to have around him, in my opinion. He needs someone like Niki who would tell him when he's wrong.
I also respect anyone who's driven a 917 in anger, but don't share your view that this means 'they can be forgiven for almost anything'.
resolve10 said:
paulguitar said:
It's absolutely nothing to do with 'hate on success'. My favourite drivers have been Lauda, Hakkinen, and Hamilton. I like success...
Horner, Marko, and Jos are not a good influence for Max to have around him, in my opinion. He needs someone like Niki who would tell him when he's wrong.
I also respect anyone who's driven a 917 in anger, but don't share your view that this means 'they can be forgiven for almost anything'.
Double World Champion and just won three races on the bounce but don't worry Max here's Paul with some timley advice on where you're going wrong Horner, Marko, and Jos are not a good influence for Max to have around him, in my opinion. He needs someone like Niki who would tell him when he's wrong.
I also respect anyone who's driven a 917 in anger, but don't share your view that this means 'they can be forgiven for almost anything'.
MustangGT said:
wpa1975 said:
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
I think he is an extremely fast and competent driver. He is not a top racer. He lacks the maturity and self control to ever be considered one of the greats.
When everything is going his way and he has a superior car, he can perform impressive, faultless displays. When put under any sort of real pressure he will lose his cool, I had hoped he had matured over the last couple of seasons of dominance as the way he was behaving towards the end of 21 could have easily ended in someone being seriously hurt or killed. Sadly though it looks to have been the lack of pressure leading to more sensible driving rather than any sort of epiphany.
That plus Redbull are a particularly unlikeable team, and the toxicity they portray rubs off on the drivers.
Agreed.When everything is going his way and he has a superior car, he can perform impressive, faultless displays. When put under any sort of real pressure he will lose his cool, I had hoped he had matured over the last couple of seasons of dominance as the way he was behaving towards the end of 21 could have easily ended in someone being seriously hurt or killed. Sadly though it looks to have been the lack of pressure leading to more sensible driving rather than any sort of epiphany.
That plus Redbull are a particularly unlikeable team, and the toxicity they portray rubs off on the drivers.
wpa1975 said:
I am sorry but Horner might be the best team principle in the paddock in your eyes but he is a hard person to like, smug factor 9 at the moment with Max winning all the time, don't like him
Being the best/successful and being likeable are 2 very different things that very very rarely go hand in hand. Usually the direct opposite of likeable is the requirement to be at the peak of any sport or profession. One of the biggest key to that level of success is being hugely narcissistic. Take a look at Senna or Schumacher in the past. The other end of that scale are drivers like Rubens Barrichello, hugely likeable and one of my all time favourite drivers. His WDC titles are nowhere to be seem though. Lawrence Stroll ias just one handy paddock based example n business is well known to be a very difficult person to work for and is all about what he wants to be done, in his exact way of doing it and has a lot of current and precious employees who don't like him as a person. His success on the other hand is undisputed.
Max will end up topping almost every table be it pole position, race wins or championships before he is finished. We’re just at that stage where he’s the fastest guy in the fastest car. No one can touch the current combination and that’s life.
As others have said, he is undoubtedly fast, that Monaco pole lap was incredible but he is extremely hard to like as a person. He gets rattled way too easily and his antics at Brazil in 2021 and 2022 were just not acceptable as a champion elect and then reigning champion.
Horner showed his true colours in 2021 when Mercedes launched the crazy side pod car, his first comment was to launch a protest until the car turned out to be s
t and he quietly dropped talk of a protest and engaged smug mode. But he had the public tantrum first. I don’t class him as a racer really either, he was found out in F3 but still got a F3000 drive because he had a budget but didn’t trouble the podium on a single occasion.
As others have said, he is undoubtedly fast, that Monaco pole lap was incredible but he is extremely hard to like as a person. He gets rattled way too easily and his antics at Brazil in 2021 and 2022 were just not acceptable as a champion elect and then reigning champion.
Horner showed his true colours in 2021 when Mercedes launched the crazy side pod car, his first comment was to launch a protest until the car turned out to be s
t and he quietly dropped talk of a protest and engaged smug mode. But he had the public tantrum first. I don’t class him as a racer really either, he was found out in F3 but still got a F3000 drive because he had a budget but didn’t trouble the podium on a single occasion.I'm not sure he has the time to match/beat those records. He started early, but didn't achieve much in is first 5 seasons. He's in his eight, & mutters about leaving if it doesn't go his way. I suspect once the other teams start winning, he'll revert to type & sulk off into history. I'd like to be proved wrong, though.
pablo said:
Max will end up topping almost every table be it pole position, race wins or championships before he is finished. We’re just at that stage where he’s the fastest guy in the fastest car. No one can touch the current combination and that’s life.
As others have said, he is undoubtedly fast, that Monaco pole lap was incredible but he is extremely hard to like as a person. He gets rattled way too easily and his antics at Brazil in 2021 and 2022 were just not acceptable as a champion elect and then reigning champion.
Horner showed his true colours in 2021 when Mercedes launched the crazy side pod car, his first comment was to launch a protest until the car turned out to be st and he quietly dropped talk of a protest and engaged smug mode. But he had the public tantrum first. I don’t class him as a racer really either, he was found out in F3 but still got a F3000 drive because he had a budget but didn’t trouble the podium on a single occasion.
Wow, hard crowd in here. So f3 guys aren’t racers. Is it not one of the top and most competitive grids in motorsport? VLN, Le Mans? What do we call real racing now?As others have said, he is undoubtedly fast, that Monaco pole lap was incredible but he is extremely hard to like as a person. He gets rattled way too easily and his antics at Brazil in 2021 and 2022 were just not acceptable as a champion elect and then reigning champion.
Horner showed his true colours in 2021 when Mercedes launched the crazy side pod car, his first comment was to launch a protest until the car turned out to be s
t and he quietly dropped talk of a protest and engaged smug mode. But he had the public tantrum first. I don’t class him as a racer really either, he was found out in F3 but still got a F3000 drive because he had a budget but didn’t trouble the podium on a single occasion.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff