Wiliams documentary film
Discussion
schmalex said:
FW came across as somewhat on the spectrum (both before and after his accident) and appeared he possessed absolutely no emotional intelligence.
Oddly, there was no mention of the 3rd child. Jamie. Wonder what he chose to do.
Claire came across superbly and is a natural leader.
Let's not beat about the bush regarding the spectrum thing; most of them, apart from Clair Williams and her mum . Frank Williams , Dernie, Peter Windsor, that brown bloke who was mansells engineer, and probably mansell himself to an extent. Not to sure about Patrick Head. There were no barriers of entry back then, you didn't need pr or tv skills so it didn't matter. Ron Dennis some people suspect as well. Oddly, there was no mention of the 3rd child. Jamie. Wonder what he chose to do.
Claire came across superbly and is a natural leader.
37chevy said:
Fabulous documentary. I’ve always had massive respect for Williams, but this just reinforces how important it is to support the team through its current troubles. Claire comes across very well.
She can come across well in interviews but let's face it, she clearly isn't great at the job shes in or they wouldn't be going to s
t. Shes in a fortunate position though where she wont get sacked.... Could you see Ferrari or Mercedes keeping a team principal in the job if they were underperforming to such a degree? 37chevy said:
Fabulous documentary. I’ve always had massive respect for Williams, but this just reinforces how important it is to support the team through its current troubles. Claire comes across very well.
So she should. That’s what she does isn’t it? PR, marketing?It sure as hell isn't running an F1 team.
It’s all very well having a nice livery that says something (?) but when all your cars are crap and you can’t even get one together for the start of testing, (explained away by another piece of PR babble) you really need to face up to the truth.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 17th February 19:50
We thoroughly enjoyed the film last night.
The historic racing bits were fascinating, but you could not help but form the view that this was a very disfunctiional family, held together by the glue of Ginny. Frank seemed to be something of an enigma - even happy to write rubber cheques to his doting wife.
I thought that the input from Frank Dernie was particularly interesting, but the overwhelming impression was that Williams was only successful when (and perhaps because) Patrick Head was active.
While Claire has clearly inherited many of the attributes of her mother, I do not believe that she will be successful in the modern era. You only need to see the skillsets of people like Toto Wolff, Christian Horner and Otmar Szafnauer to understand that being your father’s daughter is more likely to be a hinderance, than benefit.
Not turning up to day-1 of the test tomorrow shows incredible managerial weakness given that this milestone date has been known for the best part of 12-months.
The historic racing bits were fascinating, but you could not help but form the view that this was a very disfunctiional family, held together by the glue of Ginny. Frank seemed to be something of an enigma - even happy to write rubber cheques to his doting wife.
I thought that the input from Frank Dernie was particularly interesting, but the overwhelming impression was that Williams was only successful when (and perhaps because) Patrick Head was active.
While Claire has clearly inherited many of the attributes of her mother, I do not believe that she will be successful in the modern era. You only need to see the skillsets of people like Toto Wolff, Christian Horner and Otmar Szafnauer to understand that being your father’s daughter is more likely to be a hinderance, than benefit.
Not turning up to day-1 of the test tomorrow shows incredible managerial weakness given that this milestone date has been known for the best part of 12-months.
I well remember Williams propping up the grid in the early seventies. They would be running on a shoestring budget with Frank chasing his tail, squeezing funding from all sorts. The change in fortune coincides with big Patrick Head coming in and changing the culture with his military ways and his engineering genius. Frank recognised this and they made a multi championship winning team together despite Frank's otherwise narcissistic personality.
The man must have been likeable and respected by his peers to achieve so much in life along with his utter self belief in his ability and destiny.
The man must have been likeable and respected by his peers to achieve so much in life along with his utter self belief in his ability and destiny.
Kinkell said:
I well remember Williams propping up the grid in the early seventies. They would be running on a shoestring budget with Frank chasing his tail, squeezing funding from all sorts. The change in fortune coincides with big Patrick Head coming in and changing the culture with his military ways and his engineering genius. Frank recognised this and they made a multi championship winning team together despite Frank's otherwise narcissistic personality.
The man must have been likeable and respected by his peers to achieve so much in life along with his utter self belief in his ability and destiny.
The wife has a friend who's married to a guy who's in the paras. He went to Sandringham and is an officer or something? Anyway, I asked him once when he's finished in the paras and the army, what will he end up doing? What could he do? He said usually "people like him" (paraphrased) will end up going in to businesses as troubleshooters. Identifying issues and sorting them out. It's where the money is apparently.The man must have been likeable and respected by his peers to achieve so much in life along with his utter self belief in his ability and destiny.
That, given Head's own abilities, is probably what Williams need now more than ever. Not some PR gushing bullshirt from Claire, but actual actions.
sgtBerbatov said:
The wife has a friend who's married to a guy who's in the paras. He went to Sandringham and is an officer or something? Anyway, I asked him once when he's finished in the paras and the army, what will he end up doing? What could he do? He said usually "people like him" (paraphrased) will end up going in to businesses as troubleshooters. Identifying issues and sorting them out. It's where the money is apparently.
That, given Head's own abilities, is probably what Williams need now more than ever. Not some PR gushing bullshirt from Claire, but actual actions.
Or even Sandhurst.That, given Head's own abilities, is probably what Williams need now more than ever. Not some PR gushing bullshirt from Claire, but actual actions.
In my experience military officers are the last people you need for sorting a company. They’ve no experience with having to make a profit, no idea how to handle non-military people, and are a little too full of themselves.
Yes there are exceptions, but on the whole naa, leave them in the officer’s mess.
Yes there are exceptions, but on the whole naa, leave them in the officer’s mess.
Kinkell said:
They would be running on a shoestring budget with Frank chasing his tail, squeezing funding from all sorts. The change in fortune coincides with big Patrick Head coming in and changing the culture with his military ways and his engineering genius.
I didn't think Head had been in the Navy long enough to develop any military ways, given he got out quite quickly after finding the military life wasn't for him.So a question I have just asked on another forum but is equally appropriate here is:
So the big question, I guess the biggest question when in comes to Williams is, should it actually have been called ‘Head’ or ‘Patrick’ Grand Prix Engineering (both potentially difficult actually but for different reasons
but let’s leave that aside)?
Frank Williams entered Formula 1 in 1969 and through two incarnations has continued to 2019
Patrick Head joined Williams in 1977 and retired in 2012.
Williams GPE won its first Grand Prix in 1979 and its last in 2012.....
Tough words to type in some ways but the evidence is beginning to stack up, Williams appear to have come full circle.
Regards Mike
So the big question, I guess the biggest question when in comes to Williams is, should it actually have been called ‘Head’ or ‘Patrick’ Grand Prix Engineering (both potentially difficult actually but for different reasons
but let’s leave that aside)?Frank Williams entered Formula 1 in 1969 and through two incarnations has continued to 2019
Patrick Head joined Williams in 1977 and retired in 2012.
Williams GPE won its first Grand Prix in 1979 and its last in 2012.....
Tough words to type in some ways but the evidence is beginning to stack up, Williams appear to have come full circle.
Regards Mike
swisstoni said:
Just a bit about the ‘sorting out companies’ thing. Shouting and kicking ass might sound like the answer.
But I’m afraid a boring old painstaking trawl through the books and seeing where the money goes is how sorting out companies is really done.
There’s not a lot wrong with the Williams books. From what I heard a year or so ago they were operating at a profit, unlike every other team. But I’m afraid a boring old painstaking trawl through the books and seeing where the money goes is how sorting out companies is really done.
Quite an eye opening film. No whitewash or sugar coating. You felt a lot of sympathy for the family FW seemed to neglect on his way to the top.
All credit to the tough old goat for not trying to look sympathetic now.
As for their current situation its not about the name above the door but who you have working for you.
Without the budget the top talent is attracted to the big 3.
They are the last team that represents what F1 should be and idiots give them abuse.
Hope they have a better year and have spent the last few days making one of those ferrari front wings.
All credit to the tough old goat for not trying to look sympathetic now.
As for their current situation its not about the name above the door but who you have working for you.
Without the budget the top talent is attracted to the big 3.
They are the last team that represents what F1 should be and idiots give them abuse.
Hope they have a better year and have spent the last few days making one of those ferrari front wings.
For me this was a curate's egg, good in parts, I found the docu-drama flashbacks and Jonathan Williams clips rather frustrating, and would have preferred more insight from the likes of Patrick Head and Frank Dernie.
The film didn't address how Frank Williams never managed to successfully sustain any relationships with his World Champion drivers, and how the team has struggled post-BMW in a corporate world where the garagista's are fast becoming only a memory that Liberty appear unable to save.
If the 2021 proposals don't address this then it's game over for the F1 team, I even fear they may fall foul of the 107 percent rule in Melbourne should the rumour-mill be correct on this year's car being slower.
The film didn't address how Frank Williams never managed to successfully sustain any relationships with his World Champion drivers, and how the team has struggled post-BMW in a corporate world where the garagista's are fast becoming only a memory that Liberty appear unable to save.
If the 2021 proposals don't address this then it's game over for the F1 team, I even fear they may fall foul of the 107 percent rule in Melbourne should the rumour-mill be correct on this year's car being slower.
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