The Official 2017 British Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
jsf said:
Don't know why I bother trying to explain the process on here, it's getting more tabloid by the week. Sod it, I'm out of bothering anymore.
Crafty_ posts something saying the oil temperature affects ride height
You make a dismissive post that it doesn't - "It wont affect ride height as that is set by the base torsion bar settings, it will affect transient response."
Crafty_ replies with a direct quote from a team engineer which says it does
You then post a long reply culminating in the same simple fact: oil temperature affects the ride height, but in fact you were right all along because ride height is a transient response
That's about it, no?
Here's how you could have rewritten your first post and avoided the pointless argument
jsf said:
It wont affect static ride height as that is set by the base torsion bar settings, it will affect transient response of the dampers and thus in practice, the ride height
FP2:
Merc are looking strong I'm afraid, particularly in sector 2.
McLaren best of the midfield in S2 - losing time to other midfielders in S1 & 3. Nice to see a mix of tyres being tried by the teams.
Despite Karun harping on about Pirelli bringing the ultra soft here, I think the cars are still managing the pace a bit on the Super Soft with heavy fuel loads. The Soft looked the best tyre for the race, in terms of pace v longevity. For the top teams, it might be worth qualifying on the Soft tyre in Q2 for getting a better range in the 1st stint.
Merc are looking strong I'm afraid, particularly in sector 2.
McLaren best of the midfield in S2 - losing time to other midfielders in S1 & 3. Nice to see a mix of tyres being tried by the teams.
Despite Karun harping on about Pirelli bringing the ultra soft here, I think the cars are still managing the pace a bit on the Super Soft with heavy fuel loads. The Soft looked the best tyre for the race, in terms of pace v longevity. For the top teams, it might be worth qualifying on the Soft tyre in Q2 for getting a better range in the 1st stint.
budgie smuggler said:
jsf said:
Don't know why I bother trying to explain the process on here, it's getting more tabloid by the week. Sod it, I'm out of bothering anymore.
Crafty_ posts something saying the oil temperature affects ride height
You make a dismissive post that it doesn't - "It wont affect ride height as that is set by the base torsion bar settings, it will affect transient response."
Crafty_ replies with a direct quote from a team engineer which says it does
You then post a long reply culminating in the same simple fact: oil temperature affects the ride height, but in fact you were right all along because ride height is a transient response
That's about it, no?
Here's how you could have rewritten your first post and avoided the pointless argument
jsf said:
It wont affect static ride height as that is set by the base torsion bar settings, it will affect transient response of the dampers and thus in practice, the ride height
I'm sick of all the sarcastic comments and lack of effort to try and understand the explanations, followed by digs. I had the same recently with crafty where I ended up asking him what the hell is up with him. All that happens is you get jumped on and the nuance of what you are saying is completely ignored, there is no effort to have a proper discussion where misunderstandings can be talked through. There is no need for s
t like Gotcha at the end of a comment for an example of the crap that is endemic on here.The Mercedes has been a more difficult car to set up this year and Lewis has been having issues.
Considering Bottas is new to the team he is performing very well now after having a few races.
I doubt he will have the pace to beat Hamilton at the British GP as it seems to be a Hamilton track.
Ferrari are looking off the pace but they could just be holding back.
Vettel would be happy with a 3rd this time out as I have a feeling the Mercedes cars will walk it
Considering Bottas is new to the team he is performing very well now after having a few races.
I doubt he will have the pace to beat Hamilton at the British GP as it seems to be a Hamilton track.
Ferrari are looking off the pace but they could just be holding back.
Vettel would be happy with a 3rd this time out as I have a feeling the Mercedes cars will walk it
Dr Z said:
FP2:
Merc are looking strong I'm afraid, particularly in sector 2.
McLaren best of the midfield in S2 - losing time to other midfielders in S1 & 3. Nice to see a mix of tyres being tried by the teams.
Despite Karun harping on about Pirelli bringing the ultra soft here, I think the cars are still managing the pace a bit on the Super Soft with heavy fuel loads. The Soft looked the best tyre for the race, in terms of pace v longevity. For the top teams, it might be worth qualifying on the Soft tyre in Q2 for getting a better range in the 1st stint.
I didnt think the Ultra Soft was at this GP? I thought it was Medium, Soft and Super Soft?Merc are looking strong I'm afraid, particularly in sector 2.
McLaren best of the midfield in S2 - losing time to other midfielders in S1 & 3. Nice to see a mix of tyres being tried by the teams.
Despite Karun harping on about Pirelli bringing the ultra soft here, I think the cars are still managing the pace a bit on the Super Soft with heavy fuel loads. The Soft looked the best tyre for the race, in terms of pace v longevity. For the top teams, it might be worth qualifying on the Soft tyre in Q2 for getting a better range in the 1st stint.
Palmer showing his speed yet again.
Mercedes look strong and so far I get the feeling that Red Bull are more likely to trouble Ferrari than Ferrari are Mercedes. Then again it could all change when the engines are turned up tomorrow.
So far Bottas and Raikkonen look more comfortable. We know what will happen with Ferrari should Raikkonen be ahead of Vettel but what will Mercedes do now it looks like Bottas has a decent shot at the title himself?
Also I wonder if Hamilton is going to get rattled?
So far Bottas and Raikkonen look more comfortable. We know what will happen with Ferrari should Raikkonen be ahead of Vettel but what will Mercedes do now it looks like Bottas has a decent shot at the title himself?
Also I wonder if Hamilton is going to get rattled?
jsf said:
budgie smuggler said:
jsf said:
Don't know why I bother trying to explain the process on here, it's getting more tabloid by the week. Sod it, I'm out of bothering anymore.
Crafty_ posts something saying the oil temperature affects ride height
You make a dismissive post that it doesn't - "It wont affect ride height as that is set by the base torsion bar settings, it will affect transient response."
Crafty_ replies with a direct quote from a team engineer which says it does
You then post a long reply culminating in the same simple fact: oil temperature affects the ride height, but in fact you were right all along because ride height is a transient response
That's about it, no?
Here's how you could have rewritten your first post and avoided the pointless argument
jsf said:
It wont affect static ride height as that is set by the base torsion bar settings, it will affect transient response of the dampers and thus in practice, the ride height
I'm sick of all the sarcastic comments and lack of effort to try and understand the explanations, followed by digs. I had the same recently with crafty where I ended up asking him what the hell is up with him. All that happens is you get jumped on and the nuance of what you are saying is completely ignored, there is no effort to have a proper discussion where misunderstandings can be talked through. There is no need for s
t like Gotcha at the end of a comment for an example of the crap that is endemic on here.I don't recall that thread or you asking me "what the hell is up with me".
With regard to this thread, you made a one line reply - how did I have a "lack of effort in trying to understand the explanation" ? you didn't offer one - you just gave a statement.
I also haven't made a sarcastic comment, nor did I "jump" on you.
I've also never said "Gotcha" at the end of a comment.
The article I read, (with quote) and your post contradicted each other, I didn't make a sarcastic comment nor did I say you were wrong. All I did was point out the two different statements, there could well be an explanation which from budgie smuggler's post you may well have posted (I need to read the thread back).
I don't doubt you have lots of interesting knowledge and insight that many of us would enjoy, but if I hadn't posted the source you wouldn't have made another post on the subject would you ?
Budgie smuggler's revised version of your statement happens to make much more sense to me, which might have prompted me to ask a question so I could understand more, as it was I had nothing to go on, or try to understand, did I ?
It seems to me that if anyone replies to you and isn't in complete agreement you instantly take it as some sort of insult or affront or some sort of attack, which then typically means you reply aggressively and then you start posting as you did above.
It may not be the case that someone has tried to insult you, but (as in this case) a lack of communication.
VolvoT5 said:
Mercedes look strong and so far I get the feeling that Red Bull are more likely to trouble Ferrari than Ferrari are Mercedes. Then again it could all change when the engines are turned up tomorrow.
So far Bottas and Raikkonen look more comfortable. We know what will happen with Ferrari should Raikkonen be ahead of Vettel but what will Mercedes do now it looks like Bottas has a decent shot at the title himself?
Also I wonder if Hamilton is going to get rattled?
Merc will let them race, as they did Rosberg and Hamilton. They've always been clear on this and have been pretty fair.So far Bottas and Raikkonen look more comfortable. We know what will happen with Ferrari should Raikkonen be ahead of Vettel but what will Mercedes do now it looks like Bottas has a decent shot at the title himself?
Also I wonder if Hamilton is going to get rattled?
The only time they have deviated is when one car clearly has no chance to win and the other does.
Crafty_ said:
jsf said:
budgie smuggler said:
jsf said:
Don't know why I bother trying to explain the process on here, it's getting more tabloid by the week. Sod it, I'm out of bothering anymore.
Crafty_ posts something saying the oil temperature affects ride height
You make a dismissive post that it doesn't - "It wont affect ride height as that is set by the base torsion bar settings, it will affect transient response."
Crafty_ replies with a direct quote from a team engineer which says it does
You then post a long reply culminating in the same simple fact: oil temperature affects the ride height, but in fact you were right all along because ride height is a transient response
That's about it, no?
Here's how you could have rewritten your first post and avoided the pointless argument
jsf said:
It wont affect static ride height as that is set by the base torsion bar settings, it will affect transient response of the dampers and thus in practice, the ride height
I'm sick of all the sarcastic comments and lack of effort to try and understand the explanations, followed by digs. I had the same recently with crafty where I ended up asking him what the hell is up with him. All that happens is you get jumped on and the nuance of what you are saying is completely ignored, there is no effort to have a proper discussion where misunderstandings can be talked through. There is no need for s
t like Gotcha at the end of a comment for an example of the crap that is endemic on here.I don't recall that thread or you asking me "what the hell is up with me".
With regard to this thread, you made a one line reply - how did I have a "lack of effort in trying to understand the explanation" ? you didn't offer one - you just gave a statement.
I also haven't made a sarcastic comment, nor did I "jump" on you.
I've also never said "Gotcha" at the end of a comment.
The article I read, (with quote) and your post contradicted each other, I didn't make a sarcastic comment nor did I say you were wrong. All I did was point out the two different statements, there could well be an explanation which from budgie smuggler's post you may well have posted (I need to read the thread back).
I don't doubt you have lots of interesting knowledge and insight that many of us would enjoy, but if I hadn't posted the source you wouldn't have made another post on the subject would you ?
Budgie smuggler's revised version of your statement happens to make much more sense to me, which might have prompted me to ask a question so I could understand more, as it was I had nothing to go on, or try to understand, did I ?
It seems to me that if anyone replies to you and isn't in complete agreement you instantly take it as some sort of insult or affront or some sort of attack, which then typically means you reply aggressively and then you start posting as you did above.
It may not be the case that someone has tried to insult you, but (as in this case) a lack of communication.
jsf said:
Crafty_ said:
jsf said:
your first sentence. 
Uhh, yeah ok then. 
All I did was report a news story.
Now, why don't you go play "oracle of all motorsport" back in the McLaren thread....
Just analysed the long runs on Super Soft, and things are looking more promising at the front:
Hamilton and Bottas were well matched, and Raikkonen too put in a pretty fast run on the Super Softs. Vettel is thereabouts too, and it does look like the Ferrari is looking after the super softs a bit better. RB is a little bit off this pace, but the Williams seems to be working well--pretty much on RB's pace.
RB's friday long runs can be unreliable for Sunday race pace as they most often improve the car over the weekend and almost always show better competitiveness on Sunday.
Promising pace from McLaren too, right in the mix with Renault and Force India.
The Merc seems to have a small advantage (0.3s/lap) on the Softs to Ferrari but it's hard to read and Ferrari could've been sandbagging.
Rain could only spice things up further. Here's hoping. Speaking of which, starting on the Soft tyre could give good range into the race distance if there's a good chance of rain during the race. Wonder if RB or other front runners will go for a strategy split?
The teams were again aiming for a 1-stop and I think it should be doable if the Super Softs can be stretched to around the 20 lap mark. Merc tried the Medium on Bottas' car--to gauge race pace on that, may be if they were forced into an undercut situation early but still want to retain the 1-stop plan. My impression was that the tyre was doing ok, except the performance in sector 1 was little bit lacking compared to the Softs.
I wouldn't be surprised if Hamilton takes pole though, he just seemed to be taking it a little bit easy today on the quick laps. Make it look close, then put in that quick lap in Q2 that will make the crowd go 'wow', then proceed to improve on that lap in Q3; as ever the showman.
Hamilton and Bottas were well matched, and Raikkonen too put in a pretty fast run on the Super Softs. Vettel is thereabouts too, and it does look like the Ferrari is looking after the super softs a bit better. RB is a little bit off this pace, but the Williams seems to be working well--pretty much on RB's pace.
RB's friday long runs can be unreliable for Sunday race pace as they most often improve the car over the weekend and almost always show better competitiveness on Sunday.
Promising pace from McLaren too, right in the mix with Renault and Force India.
The Merc seems to have a small advantage (0.3s/lap) on the Softs to Ferrari but it's hard to read and Ferrari could've been sandbagging.
Rain could only spice things up further. Here's hoping. Speaking of which, starting on the Soft tyre could give good range into the race distance if there's a good chance of rain during the race. Wonder if RB or other front runners will go for a strategy split?
The teams were again aiming for a 1-stop and I think it should be doable if the Super Softs can be stretched to around the 20 lap mark. Merc tried the Medium on Bottas' car--to gauge race pace on that, may be if they were forced into an undercut situation early but still want to retain the 1-stop plan. My impression was that the tyre was doing ok, except the performance in sector 1 was little bit lacking compared to the Softs.
I wouldn't be surprised if Hamilton takes pole though, he just seemed to be taking it a little bit easy today on the quick laps. Make it look close, then put in that quick lap in Q2 that will make the crowd go 'wow', then proceed to improve on that lap in Q3; as ever the showman.
TheAngryDog said:
I didnt think the Ultra Soft was at this GP? I thought it was Medium, Soft and Super Soft?
You're correct, but I was referring to Karun in the C4 coverage in FP2 banging on that the Super Soft is still too hard for this track and that Pirelli should have brought their softest compound to force a 2-stop. I'm not sure about that.jsf said:
Meantime, you haven't been able to find anything else to say about your false accusations in this thread.
I give up, get offended or don't, your choice.
German media reporting Bottas has 5 place penalty for gearbox change, not confirmed yet as far as I can see.
Edited by Crafty_ on Friday 14th July 17:59
Ferrari have an engine upgrade here, rumoured to be as much as 10hp.
They play Mercedes game now and have it turned down and will turn it up for qualifying, so it might be closer than we currently expect.
Red Bull have been playing their upgrade down, but it seems to be quite significant. If Max's car does more than a lap he could do well here.
Newey has written a book "How to build a car", out 2nd November.
Reminder; Williams film is released on 2nd August, Odeon are going to shoe it , but the showings are limited.
Meantime, FOM are getting generous with the videos, Prost and Senna dueling in 1993 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4qGYaFw0y4
Its weird to watch that after walking around Bridge last time I was there.
Also, the ESPN coverage of the 1973 race, look how short the pit entry is! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo9ynIrUakg
Check out the guy in blue at the first corner, unimaginable now.
It says Hill is co-commentator, not watched all of it but yet to hear him.
They play Mercedes game now and have it turned down and will turn it up for qualifying, so it might be closer than we currently expect.
Red Bull have been playing their upgrade down, but it seems to be quite significant. If Max's car does more than a lap he could do well here.
Newey has written a book "How to build a car", out 2nd November.
Reminder; Williams film is released on 2nd August, Odeon are going to shoe it , but the showings are limited.
Meantime, FOM are getting generous with the videos, Prost and Senna dueling in 1993 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4qGYaFw0y4
Its weird to watch that after walking around Bridge last time I was there.
Also, the ESPN coverage of the 1973 race, look how short the pit entry is! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo9ynIrUakg
Check out the guy in blue at the first corner, unimaginable now.
It says Hill is co-commentator, not watched all of it but yet to hear him.
Edited by Crafty_ on Friday 14th July 18:25
Crafty_ said:
jsf said:
Meantime, you haven't been able to find anything else to say about your false accusations in this thread.
I give up, get offended or don't, your choice.
German media reporting Bottas has 5 place penalty for gearbox change, not confirmed yet as far as I can see.
Edited by Crafty_ on Friday 14th July 17:59
Dr Z said:
Just analysed the long runs on Super Soft, and things are looking more promising at the front:
Hamilton and Bottas were well matched, and Raikkonen too put in a pretty fast run on the Super Softs. Vettel is thereabouts too, and it does look like the Ferrari is looking after the super softs a bit better. RB is a little bit off this pace, but the Williams seems to be working well--pretty much on RB's pace.
RB's friday long runs can be unreliable for Sunday race pace as they most often improve the car over the weekend and almost always show better competitiveness on Sunday.
Promising pace from McLaren too, right in the mix with Renault and Force India.
The Merc seems to have a small advantage (0.3s/lap) on the Softs to Ferrari but it's hard to read and Ferrari could've been sandbagging.
Rain could only spice things up further. Here's hoping. Speaking of which, starting on the Soft tyre could give good range into the race distance if there's a good chance of rain during the race. Wonder if RB or other front runners will go for a strategy split?
The teams were again aiming for a 1-stop and I think it should be doable if the Super Softs can be stretched to around the 20 lap mark. Merc tried the Medium on Bottas' car--to gauge race pace on that, may be if they were forced into an undercut situation early but still want to retain the 1-stop plan. My impression was that the tyre was doing ok, except the performance in sector 1 was little bit lacking compared to the Softs.
I wouldn't be surprised if Hamilton takes pole though, he just seemed to be taking it a little bit easy today on the quick laps. Make it look close, then put in that quick lap in Q2 that will make the crowd go 'wow', then proceed to improve on that lap in Q3; as ever the showman.
Thanks for that. Hamilton set his fastest lap on supersofts, Bottas on ultras. I assume that four hundredths difference will disappear pretty easily.Hamilton and Bottas were well matched, and Raikkonen too put in a pretty fast run on the Super Softs. Vettel is thereabouts too, and it does look like the Ferrari is looking after the super softs a bit better. RB is a little bit off this pace, but the Williams seems to be working well--pretty much on RB's pace.
RB's friday long runs can be unreliable for Sunday race pace as they most often improve the car over the weekend and almost always show better competitiveness on Sunday.
Promising pace from McLaren too, right in the mix with Renault and Force India.
The Merc seems to have a small advantage (0.3s/lap) on the Softs to Ferrari but it's hard to read and Ferrari could've been sandbagging.
Rain could only spice things up further. Here's hoping. Speaking of which, starting on the Soft tyre could give good range into the race distance if there's a good chance of rain during the race. Wonder if RB or other front runners will go for a strategy split?
The teams were again aiming for a 1-stop and I think it should be doable if the Super Softs can be stretched to around the 20 lap mark. Merc tried the Medium on Bottas' car--to gauge race pace on that, may be if they were forced into an undercut situation early but still want to retain the 1-stop plan. My impression was that the tyre was doing ok, except the performance in sector 1 was little bit lacking compared to the Softs.
I wouldn't be surprised if Hamilton takes pole though, he just seemed to be taking it a little bit easy today on the quick laps. Make it look close, then put in that quick lap in Q2 that will make the crowd go 'wow', then proceed to improve on that lap in Q3; as ever the showman.
TheAngryDog said:
I didnt think the Ultra Soft was at this GP? I thought it was Medium, Soft and Super Soft?
You're correct, but I was referring to Karun in the C4 coverage in FP2 banging on that the Super Soft is still too hard for this track and that Pirelli should have brought their softest compound to force a 2-stop. I'm not sure about that.So what's with the different tyre strategy? Bottas going for a one stop?
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