The Official 2017 British Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
To answer the question i'd say as the 90's went on the aero effect has become larger, so it means drives cannot race as closely as in the past. My view as a fan of course as back then yes there were front and rear wings, but far less complex and as the years have gone on these are now critical to a cars performance
Roofless Toothless said:
Is there a marshal's thread tucked away anywhere on PH?
I did about ten years of it, at Brands and Snetterton in the nineties, and really enjoyed it. I would love to hear about things from an orange perspective, and have some funny stories to share.
Which brings me on to my point - that I have been wondering whether the people who seem disappointed with modern F1 are perhaps those who get their impressions of it from TV and never go to circuits. The camera angles chosen, the noise kept politely muted behind the commentators, the smells, the minuscule size of the cars once scaled down to fit on the screen, all contribute to the lessening of the spectacle.
I didn't think much of show jumping either, having only seen it on the box. Then one day I found myself in the front row at the Royal Tournament sitting literally within feet of the end of one of the gates. Believe me, the sensation of a ton of horse meat with a blooke sitting on top soaring over a six foot barrier that close is staggering. On telly it just looks like a cat hopping over the garden wall.
I never did a GP. I didn't enjoy big meetings much anyway, and I even packed in going to BTCC meetings eventually because of all the BS and lack of appreciation. (The last straw was being denied access to the foot tunnel at Brands by a jobsworth of a temporary steward on the way to my post. I was carrying a bag full of my bits and pieces for the day as well as all the flags in a bundle, and he wanted me to march all the way back to the ambulance gate at Paddock. I took the flags back to signing on and told them to poke them and drove home.) However, I was at Brands one day when Lotus turned up with Johnny Herbert and Mika
Hakkinen to do some demonstration laps. I found myself stood on the pit wall just behind post 24, so I was something like 6 to 8 feet away from the cars as they came past. Bear in mind Lotus were real tail enders at the time, and this was supposed to be a mere demonstration, but the noise and the impact of the air coming off these cars hitting you like a thump in the chest was amazing. What must over 20 of these things been like?
So, if you are watching at home, detached from the physical reality of the event, the only thing you have left is the overtaking. To witness it live, it seems miraculous these drivers can even get past eachother at all, given the brutality of the cars themselves. Take that away, and yes, it might seem processional. I suppose some detractors will be along shortly to say that they actually were there, but on the whole, I shouldn't be surprised if much of the criticism is from armchairs rather than trackside.
Blairdam Forest 1986/7 ish by the side of the forest road. Road is about 2 foot above forest ground level, wife and self are on the safe side of tree when Murray Griersons 6r4 approaches along the straight absolutely balls out. I did about ten years of it, at Brands and Snetterton in the nineties, and really enjoyed it. I would love to hear about things from an orange perspective, and have some funny stories to share.
Which brings me on to my point - that I have been wondering whether the people who seem disappointed with modern F1 are perhaps those who get their impressions of it from TV and never go to circuits. The camera angles chosen, the noise kept politely muted behind the commentators, the smells, the minuscule size of the cars once scaled down to fit on the screen, all contribute to the lessening of the spectacle.
I didn't think much of show jumping either, having only seen it on the box. Then one day I found myself in the front row at the Royal Tournament sitting literally within feet of the end of one of the gates. Believe me, the sensation of a ton of horse meat with a blooke sitting on top soaring over a six foot barrier that close is staggering. On telly it just looks like a cat hopping over the garden wall.
I never did a GP. I didn't enjoy big meetings much anyway, and I even packed in going to BTCC meetings eventually because of all the BS and lack of appreciation. (The last straw was being denied access to the foot tunnel at Brands by a jobsworth of a temporary steward on the way to my post. I was carrying a bag full of my bits and pieces for the day as well as all the flags in a bundle, and he wanted me to march all the way back to the ambulance gate at Paddock. I took the flags back to signing on and told them to poke them and drove home.) However, I was at Brands one day when Lotus turned up with Johnny Herbert and Mika
Hakkinen to do some demonstration laps. I found myself stood on the pit wall just behind post 24, so I was something like 6 to 8 feet away from the cars as they came past. Bear in mind Lotus were real tail enders at the time, and this was supposed to be a mere demonstration, but the noise and the impact of the air coming off these cars hitting you like a thump in the chest was amazing. What must over 20 of these things been like?
So, if you are watching at home, detached from the physical reality of the event, the only thing you have left is the overtaking. To witness it live, it seems miraculous these drivers can even get past eachother at all, given the brutality of the cars themselves. Take that away, and yes, it might seem processional. I suppose some detractors will be along shortly to say that they actually were there, but on the whole, I shouldn't be surprised if much of the criticism is from armchairs rather than trackside.
Now RT talked about a blow to the chest: well yes the effect of the 6r4s aerodynamics produced this effect as spadefuls of air are compressed and squirted out sideways straight at you 4 foot away....
Been hooked on the physical elements ever since...
cuprabob said:
paulguitar said:
Having said that, if he has a couple of technical issues or just 'off' weekends as he does now and again, Valtteri could be right there in the title battle.
What's more impressive about Bottas is that his current points total includes a DNF in SpainI like Bottas, I'm not especially a fan of Hamilton and I don't think Ferrari can do it, so by default I want Valterri in the mix. However he was 7/10ths slower than Hamilton on Saturday. That is massive. He performs well on Sunday, but as long as he is regularly qualifying on the second row he is an unlikely championship winner. He's leaving himself vulnerable to all kinds of opening lap shenanigans.
Derek Smith said:
0.61 of a second I think is the official time. The 5th placed driver, Howard Ganely, is the name to remember if you take part in F1 trivia quizzes. Gethin won due the the odd nature of the circuit. It was slip streaming all the way and the races ended up being just various groups of cars slip streaming one another. I can't remember the precise details but there were circa five different leaders in the final two laps. A couple of chicanes the following year stopped any repetition. Most other races were well gapped.
I met the late Gethin in the 80s. He was running a driving school at Goodwood and I was in charge of my force's driving school. For reasons I won't bore you with, he took us out in a 4x4 Sierra on the open roads. The man was really quite scary, going for closing gaps without escape options. But fast, very fast. His reactions were sharp as well. He impressed my instructors, not necessarily a point in his favour.
He was only a little bloke. I saw him drive the Graham Hill Embassy Team Lola at Brands, although not very far. There was an aborted start during which Gethin's car suffered something terminal and he took over the spare car, set up for the 6'+ Hill. All I saw at Paddock was the top of his helmet as he went on the parade lap. Wisely he decided to abandon the race, won by the fabulous Scheckter, The reason given in the result for his retirement was 'physical'.
He was a very pleasant chap, very polite, very keen, but not comfortable to sit behind when driving, despite the ample leg room.
Gethin was mighty in F5000 too , famously winning a combined F1/F5000 race. His nickname 'rabbit ' referred to the fact that he didn't lack female company..... I met the late Gethin in the 80s. He was running a driving school at Goodwood and I was in charge of my force's driving school. For reasons I won't bore you with, he took us out in a 4x4 Sierra on the open roads. The man was really quite scary, going for closing gaps without escape options. But fast, very fast. His reactions were sharp as well. He impressed my instructors, not necessarily a point in his favour.
He was only a little bloke. I saw him drive the Graham Hill Embassy Team Lola at Brands, although not very far. There was an aborted start during which Gethin's car suffered something terminal and he took over the spare car, set up for the 6'+ Hill. All I saw at Paddock was the top of his helmet as he went on the parade lap. Wisely he decided to abandon the race, won by the fabulous Scheckter, The reason given in the result for his retirement was 'physical'.
He was a very pleasant chap, very polite, very keen, but not comfortable to sit behind when driving, despite the ample leg room.
coppice said:
Gethin was mighty in F5000 too , famously winning a combined F1/F5000 race. His nickname 'rabbit ' referred to the fact that he didn't lack female company.....
That's a new one on me.I took my lads to Goodwood, trying to be all professional. It all went downhill after I asked him to autograph my book on McLaren. My lads reckoned they never forgave me.
OT I know, but we were trying to see if outside input would be useful on advanced/pursuit training. There'd been a couple of deaths in pursuits in other force areas and my boss told me to 'consider anything'. So I considered a few laps around Goodwood. My lads were all enthusiastic after the laps - Gethin was impressive - but when we took him on roads it was a different matter.
Opposite lock in a 4x4 Sierra around a blind bend was not felt to comply with Roadcraft.
That ride was one of those things I was glad I did once but never felt the urge to repeat.
These F1 drivers are a class apart.
Some photos from Sunday. I was sat in Village B in case anyone was looking to go next year and wanted to see what the view is like.
You get to see the cars come into and around the Village turns (The Loop) and then onto the Wellington Straight.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94169616@N03/albums/7...
You get to see the cars come into and around the Village turns (The Loop) and then onto the Wellington Straight.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94169616@N03/albums/7...
PompeyM3 said:
Some photos from Sunday. I was sat in Village B in case anyone was looking to go next year and wanted to see what the view is like.
You get to see the cars come into and around the Village turns (The Loop) and then onto the Wellington Straight.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94169616@N03/albums/7...
Great pics You get to see the cars come into and around the Village turns (The Loop) and then onto the Wellington Straight.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94169616@N03/albums/7...
For me the difference between TV coverage with all its fabulous images, and the 'live' experience even with 'big screen' views for 90% of the track and 10% in your personal sight, is engagement. When you're sitting in a stand or standing trackside, you pretty well know who's where and you see battles being fought lap by lap both in front of you and on screen. The TV coverage uses too many super close-up shots seeing one or two cars only and I, at least, find it hard to know where on the circuit the particular view takes place. Zoom put a bit and take in some context and it all becomes clearer but that seems to happen infrequently. I know Silverstone fairly well even if I cannot always name the corners since the layout changed, but when all that's visible is a car and a bit of track I have little idea where it is. The people around you are following individual drivers and they react to things they do with gasps, groans, and cheers. This enriches the experience beyond any TV coverage.
I was at Sunday's event and I watched it on television later that evening. The TV coverage is terrific but it's as different as the best HiFi versus live music. That is no comparison really; no life or spirit. It might just be that taking the trouble to get up early, travel to the circuit having paid a decent sum for tickets, watched all the support races and events, and waited with bated breath for the start and seeing the drivers in the flesh, that the end effect is heightened levels of attention. Switching on a television set and having all the build up bore you to tears, the race, sterile as TV is, becomes an anti climax - somehow unreal.
I was at Sunday's event and I watched it on television later that evening. The TV coverage is terrific but it's as different as the best HiFi versus live music. That is no comparison really; no life or spirit. It might just be that taking the trouble to get up early, travel to the circuit having paid a decent sum for tickets, watched all the support races and events, and waited with bated breath for the start and seeing the drivers in the flesh, that the end effect is heightened levels of attention. Switching on a television set and having all the build up bore you to tears, the race, sterile as TV is, becomes an anti climax - somehow unreal.
Watching motor sport on TV is just that - it is just watching telly . On a 2D screen in your front room , with crap sound , somebody deciding which image to show and somebody else telling you what you're watching . The foreshortening effect of TV nullifies any sense of speed and just when it gets interesting it cuts to an ad break or your OH asks - ' Is it STILL on ? '.
Watching live obviously reduces your overall view of the race but IT'S REAL ! And you can watch the two guys in 17th place outbrake each other into Village , right in front of you , when the director is focussing on the guy in the lead or , as often as not , some reaction shot of a micro sleb in the back of the Mercedes pit garage or some t
t getting overexcited because -' Look ! Look ! It's me . on the big screen! I'm waving ! I'm taking a selfie of the image of myself taking a selfie ...' Etc
Watching live obviously reduces your overall view of the race but IT'S REAL ! And you can watch the two guys in 17th place outbrake each other into Village , right in front of you , when the director is focussing on the guy in the lead or , as often as not , some reaction shot of a micro sleb in the back of the Mercedes pit garage or some t
t getting overexcited because -' Look ! Look ! It's me . on the big screen! I'm waving ! I'm taking a selfie of the image of myself taking a selfie ...' Etc Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff