The Official 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**

[Vaud]

thegreenhell said:

Mercedes are the most professional outfit on the grid, both as a racing team and the manufacturer brand they represent. Verstappen is currently far too raw and unfinished for them. He makes too many mistakes, and he and his father would be a potential PR liability for them. Plus, historically, Germans hate the Dutch.

I think your last point is irrelevant. It's a global brand.

[swisstoni]

I think Riccardo and Verstappen are a great pairing both for driver ability and entertainment potential.
All it needs is for the RB to make the last step in performance and they are really going to make a nuisance of themselves.

[NRS]

swisstoni said:

I think Riccardo and Verstappen are a great pairing both for driver ability and entertainment potential.
All it needs is for the RB to make the last step in performance and they are really going to make a nuisance of themselves.

They're too good and outspoken to be a great pairing. It could easily result in a lot of fireworks if things continue like this. Great for the viewer, not great for the team.

C70R said:

I suspect Hamilton could have forced his way past Bottas eventually given the performance delta, which would have resulted in one or both of them killing their tyres and risking a collision on a difficult overtaking circuit. Perfect common sense for Merc to manage it the way they did.

I was wondering if Hamilton would have passed Bottas without the switch - and I wonder if that was what Hamilton was thinking when he questioned the second "5 laps to pass". Did he know it was hopeless with the Ferraris and want a shot at his slower team mate? Or was it a worry about Verstappen and how close he would be if they did switch back?

[swisstoni]

NRS said:

swisstoni said:

I think Riccardo and Verstappen are a great pairing both for driver ability and entertainment potential.
All it needs is for the RB to make the last step in performance and they are really going to make a nuisance of themselves.

They're too good and outspoken to be a great pairing. It could easily result in a lot of fireworks if things continue like this. Great for the viewer, not great for the team.

That's what I meant when I said they have great entertainment potential.

[jm doc]

thegreenhell said:

Vaud said:

vonuber said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

I would love to see Ferrari offer Verstappen or Ricciardo a drive but Vettel knows he would be beaten so it will never happen.

Why not Verstappen to Mercedes?

Mercedes are, very, very happy with the current dynamic. Muchos harmony in the garage.

Mercedes are the most professional outfit on the grid, both as a racing team and the manufacturer brand they represent. Verstappen is currently far too raw and unfinished for them. He makes too many mistakes, and he and his father would be a potential PR liability for them. Plus, historically, Germans hate the Dutch.

The Germans don't hate the Dutch but they do look down on them. However the Dutch most definitely hate the Germans!

[Derek Smith]

swisstoni said:

I think Riccardo and Verstappen are a great pairing both for driver ability and entertainment potential.
. . .

At the beginning of the season I thought one of the highlights would be the battle between the two RB drivers but with half the season gone, it seems as if they've not been anywhere near one-another after the first few laps. Or the first couple of corners in the case of Hungary.

[Frimley111R]

BeeJayAre said:

Another procession of a race. When are we either going to make the cars able to overtake or make the tracks better suited to racing these cars? Hungarian Grand Prix made up of 70 parade laps, 191 miles, not many thrills in this one.

It was even duller than Monaco with barely a pass in the entire race but it's mostly due to the track, not the cars. It's almost always been a dull race but they won't change the track just for one F1 race. Accept it, record it, skim through it afterwards.

[rdjohn]

NRS said:

I was wondering if Hamilton would have passed Bottas without the switch - and I wonder if that was what Hamilton was thinking when he questioned the second "5 laps to pass". Did he know it was hopeless with the Ferraris and want a shot at his slower team mate? Or was it a worry about Verstappen and how close he would be if they did switch back?

Lewis was quite open after qually, that he knew he would be unable to overtake the cars in front. He caught Kimi quite quickly but never got within DRS, because of turbulence.

His only chance was the run to turn-1, and in that respect he was lucky in the race as he lost 2-places, rather than gain any.

He just needs to let the feel of the car come to him, like BOT, rather than overdrive it on circuits like this. That now seems to be his only flaw.

But he was obviously not helped by having unbalanced tyres in qually. It baffles me why simple faults like these only ever seem to appear on his side of the garage.

[angrymoby]

NRS said:

I was wondering if Hamilton would have passed Bottas without the switch - and I wonder if that was what Hamilton was thinking when he questioned the second "5 laps to pass". Did he know it was hopeless with the Ferraris and want a shot at his slower team mate? Or was it a worry about Verstappen and how close he would be if they did switch back?

certainly Hamilton knew he was faster than his teammate, but i think he was more worried about being caught by Verstappen, than he ever was of trying to pressure or pass the Ferrari's ...after all, if Verstappen had passed Bottas, there would've been no need to give that place back to his teammate so win:win from Lewis' perspective

[oyster]

glasgow mega snake said:

oyster said:

C70R said:

majordad said:

Hamilton today IMHO became a man, and a true sportsman. Something that will be remembered and written about for decades than if he had won. Good man Lewis, respect. It has totally changed my view of LH.

That's really entertained me. I really like Lewis, but all he did was the same thing that every other driver would have done. "Multi 21" is probably the only time in the last decade that a driver has gone against the thousands of team orders that have been issued.
There was absolutely zero chance that he wouldn't give that place back, so I don't see why it should result in his canonisation...

There was Hungary 2014 when Lewis refused a team order to let Rosberg past.

not quite - he said he was racing and couldn't afford to lose the time it would take to slow down to let rosberg past. he said, I think, "If he can get close to me I'll let him pass"

There's nothing 'not quite' about it. He was ordered to let Rosberg past. I'm not debating whether he was right or not, I'm just stating he disregarded a team order, in reply to the point about going against team orders in the last decade.

[Dr Z]

oyster said:

glasgow mega snake said:

oyster said:

There was Hungary 2014 when Lewis refused a team order to let Rosberg past.

not quite - he said he was racing and couldn't afford to lose the time it would take to slow down to let rosberg past. he said, I think, "If he can get close to me I'll let him pass"

There's nothing 'not quite' about it. He was ordered to let Rosberg past. I'm not debating whether he was right or not, I'm just stating he disregarded a team order, in reply to the point about going against team orders in the last decade.

It's a very good point and I think you can put a strong argument forward that, the rejection of 2014 Hungary TO lost Merc that race win. Given how Merc play some of their race strategy, bit of a slap in the face to Merc I thought. One that is easier to excuse given the wider picture of just the two team mates in the WDC fight.

However, isn't it convenient that at a track you can't quite get close that easily, one would demand that a team mate on a different strategy to come close to let him by. Even so, Rosberg was within DRS for several laps and no sign of being let past. How much closer do you want? It's one of those (conveniently?) forgotten aspects of this incident...

Derek Smith said:

Dr Z said:

I was surprised Hamilton did slow so much to give the position back, it wasn't all that necessary as he was so far ahead. I will spare you all the cynical take on it.

Oh, go on, tell us.

I thought he was just hoping that Verstappen would get close enough to challenge Bottas, perhaps take the pair off. Let's face it, that's what most of us would have expected. I thought the last corner was a reasonable choice. He didn't want Verstappen anywhere near him, especially after losing time letting VB through.

I think it was Merc who delayed him giving the place back but it would have been convenient if Max had caught up to Bottas and overtaken him. I'm cynical as it's not that consistent with past actions.

Bottas let him past twice (!) in Bahrain to attack Vettel, but he didn't give the place back.

Wonder how the large Finnish contingent at this race would have reacted to not giving the position back? I suspect it's more the case of him bound by his original offer of giving the place back, and buying some brownie points from Bottas whose help he would need at the business end of the Championship, I'm sure...nothing to do with honour or some such guff.

All good though, I'm enjoying two teams going at it this year and all the side effects that entails.

[NRS]

rdjohn said:

NRS said:

I was wondering if Hamilton would have passed Bottas without the switch - and I wonder if that was what Hamilton was thinking when he questioned the second "5 laps to pass". Did he know it was hopeless with the Ferraris and want a shot at his slower team mate? Or was it a worry about Verstappen and how close he would be if they did switch back?

Lewis was quite open after qually, that he knew he would be unable to overtake the cars in front. He caught Kimi quite quickly but never got within DRS, because of turbulence.

His only chance was the run to turn-1, and in that respect he was lucky in the race as he lost 2-places, rather than gain any.

He just needs to let the feel of the car come to him, like BOT, rather than overdrive it on circuits like this. That now seems to be his only flaw.

But he was obviously not helped by having unbalanced tyres in qually. It baffles me why simple faults like these only ever seem to appear on his side of the garage.

Not sure how you mean he should have been like Bottas - he was clearly a lot quicker than Bottas here, so not overdriving!

[jm doc]

rdjohn said:

He just needs to let the feel of the car come to him, like BOT, rather than overdrive it on circuits like this. That now seems to be his only flaw.

And how many WDC titles have you won?

Seriously, some of the posts on here defy belief.

[C70R]

oyster said:

glasgow mega snake said:

oyster said:

C70R said:

majordad said:

Hamilton today IMHO became a man, and a true sportsman. Something that will be remembered and written about for decades than if he had won. Good man Lewis, respect. It has totally changed my view of LH.

That's really entertained me. I really like Lewis, but all he did was the same thing that every other driver would have done. "Multi 21" is probably the only time in the last decade that a driver has gone against the thousands of team orders that have been issued.
There was absolutely zero chance that he wouldn't give that place back, so I don't see why it should result in his canonisation...

There was Hungary 2014 when Lewis refused a team order to let Rosberg past.

not quite - he said he was racing and couldn't afford to lose the time it would take to slow down to let rosberg past. he said, I think, "If he can get close to me I'll let him pass"

There's nothing 'not quite' about it. He was ordered to let Rosberg past. I'm not debating whether he was right or not, I'm just stating he disregarded a team order, in reply to the point about going against team orders in the last decade.

Ok, you've got me. That's twice in a decade (>200 races).
Which outcome do you think was most likely?