Halo's; just when you thought it was safe
Discussion
8V085 said:
Vaud said:
8V085 said:
Open wheel racing is undergoing changes triggered by a knee jerk reaction aimed at appeasing certain groups.
The halo is a reaction to a law suit from the Bianchi family IIRC. As a legal entity they have to react, they don't effectively have a choice.The likely difference between F1 and the TT is that bereaved relatives of the TT have not (to date) sued?
Action was taken post both those incidents, with new rules for off circuit testing and the VSC rules meaning you cant have a heavy recovery vehicle in a dangerous place until the cars speed is reduced to a safe level.
Sport still continues when people die and the vast majority of people do realise the risks and accept them. This is across the board in all sports. The march of safety continues on a pace but you will never prevent all major incidents because its the nature of sticking a squidgy life form in an object that moves quickly and can stop quickly. Even going slowly you can have life changing or ending incidents, the accident of Schumacher when he fell awkwardly and hit his head is enough to illustrate this. You have to find the right balance of risk to reward.
Some of the most popular Motorsport is historics, the cars have to be used in period spec. The reason the crashes are generally much safer than period is down to the circuit design improvements and safety equipment the drivers use, but people do still die and get injured in these cars, the participants accept the trade off of risk to reward, so do the very large numbers of spectators.
Will the Halo help improve safety? Maybe, but it could also increase the risks in some circumstances, it seems a rushed and not well tested solution to me.
Evangelion said:
It hasn't. F1 is already dead IMO. It started its slow demise over 50 years ago when Jackie Stewart started to f
k with it. He should know as well as anybody, that never in the history of the world, has anyone been forced to get into a racing car and drive it against his will.
OK we'll disagree strongly on this one as will, doubtless, hundreds of race car drivers who owe their survival to JYS's commendable safety crusade. k with it. He should know as well as anybody, that never in the history of the world, has anyone been forced to get into a racing car and drive it against his will.An element of risk is good, it's why we love motor sport rather than bowls or table tennis. But, unacceptable risk ?
When Roger Williamson was upside down in his burning March 711 at Zandvoort and the marshals were in jeans, kicked sand at the car and didn't know how to operate an extinguisher was he thinking "well I've chosen to drive in F1 of my own free will and its one of those things". When Jochen Rindt had his accident at Monza and the ambulance drivers got stuck in a traffic jam and weren't sure which hospital to take him to - acceptable ?
Let's extend your philosophy - why should motorcyclists on British roads be subjugated into wearing crash helmets or car drivers wearing seat belts - they accept the risk and are happy to face the consequences...
Lotus Elan +2 said:
Exactly....... If the F1 lot ran rallying they would probably make rally cars resemble tanks following Kubica's accident.
Poor grammar but hopefully you get my point
The F1 lot did have a go at rallying and have pretty much killed it compared to the spectacular high spectator event it once was.Poor grammar but hopefully you get my point
moffspeed said:
When Roger Williamson was upside down in his burning March 711 at Zandvoort and the marshals were in jeans, kicked sand at the car and didn't know how to operate an extinguisher was he thinking "well I've chosen to drive in F1 of my own free will and its one of those things". When Jochen Rindt had his accident at Monza and the ambulance drivers got stuck in a traffic jam and weren't sure which hospital to take him to - acceptable ?
Neither of the two above examples have anything to do with F1 being an open wheel formula, rather than with piss poor processes that were applicable to all forms of racing at the time. Nobody is saying "let's not have on track fire crews because F1 is a risky sport". What we're saying is just because the processes are crap and the sport is intrinsically dangerous, don't turn the sport into a stfest of unnecessary safety features that will eventually kill it making no real contribution to safety (e.g. "don't make each car carry a first aid kit and a fire extinguisher just to make the kneejerk crew feel better about themselves"), rather than fixing the process. We are in odd times, the corporate world is in charge of F1 and they are terrified of liability.
Years ago when a driver was killed it seemed the first thought was who will drive next week, now its can we be sued for that.
While the main stream sports are being wrapped in cotton wool we have a growing interest in danger videos, kids swinging from sky scrapers, base jumping, wing suits etc.
I don't like the halo, if I was racing again I wouldn't want it on my car, but if my son was racing,
I'd want it on his.
Years ago when a driver was killed it seemed the first thought was who will drive next week, now its can we be sued for that.
While the main stream sports are being wrapped in cotton wool we have a growing interest in danger videos, kids swinging from sky scrapers, base jumping, wing suits etc.
I don't like the halo, if I was racing again I wouldn't want it on my car, but if my son was racing,
I'd want it on his.
tight fart said:
We are in odd times, the corporate world is in charge of F1 and they are terrified of liability.
Years ago when a driver was killed it seemed the first thought was who will drive next week, now its can we be sued for that.
While the main stream sports are being wrapped in cotton wool we have a growing interest in danger videos, kids swinging from sky scrapers, base jumping, wing suits etc.
I don't like the halo, if I was racing again I wouldn't want it on my car, but if my son was racing,
I'd want it on his.
I guess that’s it in a nutshell. In the past the only person who stood to directly suffer as a result of death/injury was the driver himself. Now the teams, organisers, circuit owners etc..stand to be implicated too. Years ago when a driver was killed it seemed the first thought was who will drive next week, now its can we be sued for that.
While the main stream sports are being wrapped in cotton wool we have a growing interest in danger videos, kids swinging from sky scrapers, base jumping, wing suits etc.
I don't like the halo, if I was racing again I wouldn't want it on my car, but if my son was racing,
I'd want it on his.
tight fart said:
I don't like the halo (...) but if my son was racing, I'd want it on his.
Even if it increased risk of being unable to quickly get out of the car e.g. while it's upside down on fire which is a far more likely posibility than a freak accident like ending up underneath track side equipment?jsf said:
Maria's accident was not related to the Bianchi incident, the halo wouldn't have helped Maria as she hit the end of a tail lift at an angle that would have gone through the gap. Bianchi died because of the trauma of the impact into an immovable very heavy object, i doubt the Halo would have done anything either in that crash.
Action was taken post both those incidents, with new rules for off circuit testing and the VSC rules meaning you cant have a heavy recovery vehicle in a dangerous place until the cars speed is reduced to a safe level.
Sport still continues when people die and the vast majority of people do realise the risks and accept them. This is across the board in all sports. The march of safety continues on a pace but you will never prevent all major incidents because its the nature of sticking a squidgy life form in an object that moves quickly and can stop quickly. Even going slowly you can have life changing or ending incidents, the accident of Schumacher when he fell awkwardly and hit his head is enough to illustrate this. You have to find the right balance of risk to reward.
Some of the most popular Motorsport is historics, the cars have to be used in period spec. The reason the crashes are generally much safer than period is down to the circuit design improvements and safety equipment the drivers use, but people do still die and get injured in these cars, the participants accept the trade off of risk to reward, so do the very large numbers of spectators.
Will the Halo help improve safety? Maybe, but it could also increase the risks in some circumstances, it seems a rushed and not well tested solution to me.
Very well said Action was taken post both those incidents, with new rules for off circuit testing and the VSC rules meaning you cant have a heavy recovery vehicle in a dangerous place until the cars speed is reduced to a safe level.
Sport still continues when people die and the vast majority of people do realise the risks and accept them. This is across the board in all sports. The march of safety continues on a pace but you will never prevent all major incidents because its the nature of sticking a squidgy life form in an object that moves quickly and can stop quickly. Even going slowly you can have life changing or ending incidents, the accident of Schumacher when he fell awkwardly and hit his head is enough to illustrate this. You have to find the right balance of risk to reward.
Some of the most popular Motorsport is historics, the cars have to be used in period spec. The reason the crashes are generally much safer than period is down to the circuit design improvements and safety equipment the drivers use, but people do still die and get injured in these cars, the participants accept the trade off of risk to reward, so do the very large numbers of spectators.
Will the Halo help improve safety? Maybe, but it could also increase the risks in some circumstances, it seems a rushed and not well tested solution to me.
8V085 said:
tight fart said:
I don't like the halo (...) but if my son was racing, I'd want it on his.
Even if it increased risk of being unable to quickly get out of the car e.g. while it's upside down on fire which is a far more likely posibility than a freak accident like ending up underneath track side equipment?I can't think of any recent high profile incidents where cars have been upside-down and on fire.
Mr_Thyroid said:
It's not designed for the Bianchi incident - it's designed for the Henry Surtees, Justin Wilson and Felipe Massa incidents.
I can't think of any recent high profile incidents where cars have been upside-down and on fire.
True.I can't think of any recent high profile incidents where cars have been upside-down and on fire.
There is a piece here about it: https://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/08/02/new-fia-vid...
While it wouldn’t have helped Bianchi, there have been observations that while under legal threat from the Bianchi family, the FIA were needing to react with Bianchi as a “consideration”
Mr_Thyroid said:
It's not designed for the Bianchi incident - it's designed for the Henry Surtees, Justin Wilson and Felipe Massa incidents.
I can't think of any recent high profile incidents where cars have been upside-down and on fire.
As much as it could have helped Surtees who was hit by a big enough object, I doubt Wilson or Massa would have been lucky enough to be on the right trajectory. Unless halo is just a gateway to having a fully enclosed fighter jet cockpit? What next, traction control in a form of a slot scalextric stylee? That way we'd kill two birds with one stone - fully electric and incredibly safe formula that will make lawyers happy.I can't think of any recent high profile incidents where cars have been upside-down and on fire.
Gaz. said:
Every motorsport in the world would love to be in as ill health as F1 right now. How many other championships have an unbroken 68 season streak with regular spectator attendance equal to that of a football match and watched by millions every weekend and an income in billions? NASCAR is F1's only rival in this respect. F1 is the only motorsport to get media coverage, unless in the case of LM24 a few years ago an F1 driver is hurt in a different series. Most other motorsport championships are short lived and stagger from one incarnation to another.
Yet F1 is losing a large percentage of fans each year.Having the "halo" basically makes the sport void.
It should be called something else in 2018.
S1 sounds about right.
Eric Mc said:
Which ones?
And by how much?
FY16 vs FY17 comparison:And by how much?
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2017/...
Vaud said:
Two tracks Azerbaijan
138.17%
Austria
70.59%
Bizarre figures.
Anyway TV figures are down from 600 Million in 2008 to 400 Million in 2016.
Perhaps the 200 Million went to the Azerbaijan GP
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 30th December 00:30
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