The Official 2017 Singapore Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**

[Hungrymc]

llewop said:

back off and perhaps tuck in tight behind Vettel (or Kimi) making the other one 'the outsider' in the car-train into the corner, then hope to hang the outsider out to dry on a subsequent corner

Which of course is what Seb was trying to force him to do, but he executed it badly by allowing Max and Kimi to get along side.

All the talk of mirrors. I'm not so sure. Sebs on board has his head flicking left over and over again. I think he was well aware of Max and I'd be surprised if Kimi hadn't made his peripheral vision. I think he was just being very aggressive and made a bit of a mess of it.

Still happy with the "racing incident" decision though.

[HustleRussell]

Derek Smith said:

Dunit said:

I see that Mercedes fitted old engines for the weekend, Lewis had his Spanish gp engine and Valteri used the Monaco unit.
Wonder was there any damage to Sebs engine or the gearbox on Kimis?

Interesting although, perhaps, not surprising. It means they saw this race as a throwaway one. If an engine was going to go, this was the place for it to happen. No wonder Wolff et al looked so keyed up when LH went into the lead. They could not have been pleased to see Ricc behind and promising to push.

Perhaps Bottas was nursing his engine, short changing and stuff, thinking that if LH's did blow it would put him in the frame again - maybe under instruction to do so. Mind you, with his Friday and Saturday times that's probably way off beam. I wonder what they would have felt if LH's engine blew five laps from the end.

In all probability, the various pace cars must have helped. No lean running to shorten engine life. Even luckier Hamilton?

Thanks for that.

(Sorry to change the subject.)

Mercedes are in a pretty comfortable position with component use so I don't think they'd have re-used an old engine if they felt it had an increased risk of failure. More likely, IMO, the layout of Singapore, the % of full throttle over a lap, the negligible laptime benefit of a more powerful newer / later spec engine, the impact of the heat and humidity on fuelling / outright power... I'd guess they bung in a used engine and save their new unit for more power critical circuits. Japan? USA? Mexico?

[Evangelion]

I don't think Vettel 'steered', 'swung' or 'swerved' anywhere.

It seems to me that his car was already facing left when he was sat on the grid. As soon as everyone started to move, he just kept it straight thus continuing to move over to the left by about two cars' widths.

Even if Max had managed to back out of it completely, the two Ferraris would still have hit each other.

[HustleRussell]

Hungrymc said:

Which of course is what Seb was trying to force him to do, but he executed it badly by allowing Max and Kimi to get along side.

All the talk of mirrors. I'm not so sure. Sebs on board has his head flicking left over and over again. I think he was well aware of Max and I'd be surprised if Kimi hadn't made his peripheral vision. I think he was just being very aggressive and made a bit of a mess of it.

Still happy with the "racing incident" decision though.

I'm sure he knew Max was there, and I'm sure that he'd have stopped moving left at the point where there was one car's width and no more between his car and the pit wall for Max. What he failed to account for was Kimi simultaneously rocketing past Max.

[johnxjsc1985]

Vettel tried to defend his position coming into the first corner and was just too aggressive I am sure he was expecting a strong attack by Max.
It was poor judgement give his position challenging for the WDC with Hamilton a few cars behind.
He cant afford another DNF now so he really will be under pressure and its all his own fault. Whilst an racing incident it shows he is feeling the pressure.

[Vaud]

HustleRussell said:

I'm sure he knew Max was there

Lewis seems to disagree and has been there many times?

[LDN]

johnxjsc1985 said:

Vettel tried to defend his position coming into the first corner and was just too aggressive I am sure he was expecting a strong attack by Max.
It was poor judgement give his position challenging for the WDC with Hamilton a few cars behind.
He cant afford another DNF now so he really will be under pressure and its all his own fault. Whilst an racing incident it shows he is feeling the pressure.

Vettel has cracked under pressure a few times over the years. He's not the steely German that MS was.

[Dr Z]

Some of you guys are loving this opportunity to stick the knife in, aren't ya?

Too bad the car is not going to be able to fight on an equal level with Merc for the rest of the season.

[Vaud]

Dr Z said:

Some of you guys are loving this opportunity to stick the knife in, aren't ya?

Too bad the car is not going to be able to fight on an equal level with Merc for the rest of the season.

It's a negative side of PH.

Racing incidents only apply when plucky Brits are affected. When it's Nico, Vettel etc it's the broken evil Hun...

[oyster]

Sloppy said:

Now Seb's seen the replay from all angles, if he had a chance to repeat the start do you think he would cut across the track again? The answer would be no, he messed up big time, and his sheepish demeanor during the post-race interview proves it. What a tit.

Edited by Sloppy on Monday 18th September 13:17

When they invent the hindsight championship then you might be in with a shout.

[HustleRussell]

Vaud said:

HustleRussell said:

I'm sure he knew Max was there

Lewis seems to disagree and has been there many times?

I haven't read the article but I'm not sure it'd change my view... I believe that if Vettel didn't see that yellow nosecone before Kimi was spun into him, he'd have heard / sensed / been aware of car(s) to his left hooking up better and upshifting earlier and IMO would've been aware that one of them had made a better start in comparison to his own.

ETA: which is why he immediately moved to close the gap to his left perhaps believeing that he was fully ahead or (more likely IMO) believing that there was only one car there.

Edited by HustleRussell on Tuesday 19th September 10:56

[lee_fr200]

Oh I agree it was a racing incident but it could have easily been avoided

I only blame vettel like 10% for coming over but everyone does that! I blame kimi as he could see the window closing but still persisted he then hit max then hit his own team mate before hitting max again! Kimi should have seen what was happening with vettel heading towards that left hander and backed out instead he took out the front row

[NRS]

Vaud said:

Dr Z said:

Some of you guys are loving this opportunity to stick the knife in, aren't ya?

Too bad the car is not going to be able to fight on an equal level with Merc for the rest of the season.

It's a negative side of PH.

Racing incidents only apply when plucky Brits are affected. When it's Nico, Vettel etc it's the broken evil Hun...

I think only a few people have properly blamed Vettel? The rest have said it was a racing incident, but Vettel was the one "most" at fault due to his direction, a few say Max was most to blame due to not braking earlier, and 1 or 2 people say Kimi was partly to blame, but I can't understand that one so no idea why they do.

Ironically a lot of the Vettel "fans" used to criticise Lewis for exactly the same thing in the past. He was "too aggressive" (depending how you view it) and tried to win the position he was racing for at the time, rather than sometimes giving it up if it was too risky and playing the longer game and making sure he finished. Max clearly has this to learn based on this season and the DNFs (although some are car failures).

[GetCarter]

I think Brundle has hit the nail pretty much on the head:

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11042927/se...

[Hungrymc]

NRS said:

Vaud said:

Dr Z said:

Some of you guys are loving this opportunity to stick the knife in, aren't ya?

Too bad the car is not going to be able to fight on an equal level with Merc for the rest of the season.

It's a negative side of PH.

Racing incidents only apply when plucky Brits are affected. When it's Nico, Vettel etc it's the broken evil Hun...

I think only a few people have properly blamed Vettel? The rest have said it was a racing incident, but Vettel was the one "most" at fault due to his direction, a few say Max was most to blame due to not braking earlier, and 1 or 2 people say Kimi was partly to blame, but I can't understand that one so no idea why they do.

Ironically a lot of the Vettel "fans" used to criticise Lewis for exactly the same thing in the past. He was "too aggressive" (depending how you view it) and tried to win the position he was racing for at the time, rather than sometimes giving it up if it was too risky and playing the longer game and making sure he finished. Max clearly has this to learn based on this season and the DNFs (although some are car failures).

Yes, yes but when it's Lewis, he's fair game and it is his fault.... according to many.

Two different faces of the same coin.

[Derek Smith]

Dr Z said:

Some of you guys are loving this opportunity to stick the knife in, aren't ya?

Too bad the car is not going to be able to fight on an equal level with Merc for the rest of the season.

It's not over, though, not yet.

Chicken counting might be the worst tactic for Merc. For a bloke like LH, settling for second seems to be an anathema and I think could cause him to not so much switch off as make errors. He'll go for wins, so could be fun.

It is disappointing to be in this situation I know. Seven races to go and LH wins the one that everyone (including me) suggested he'd struggle to finish above fourth, putting him 28 points in the lead. He's a lucky bugger, although I think he'd have finished third and maybe in front of Vettel even if Kimi and Max had had average starts, so perhaps he made some of his own luck.

I know the odds are against Vettel getting close to Hamilton, but then, are they any worse than Hamilton's odds of winning in Singapore?

The speed of the Ferrari was remarkable. Vettel was on the edge, and a fraction over it, on his qually lap I know, but it was still a blinder, showing the car has the potential to be a winner in the races left.

I reckon that there will be a few surprises unfolding in the next half dozen races. For support, I'll bring in a number of previous seasons.

The fat lady has not even taken a deep breath so let's not get too negative.

Just yet.

The Ferrari is a quality car and better than the Merc, even in Hamilton's hands, on at least one of the remaining races. The RB is up there as well so LH will struggle in one race.

There's still a fight left.

[HustleRussell]

IMO Derek, the reasons I'm kind of writing the season off are twofold;

The Singapore Grand Prix was perhaps the only remaining event of the season where Ferrari were likely to have an obvious pace advantage over the Mercedes... In addition, a lot of the remaining circuits are 'Lewis tracks'.

Ferrari are somewhat up against it on component use while Mercedes are sitting pretty.

I think the odds are now stacked against Ferrari.

[HustleRussell]

Derek Smith said:

The Ferrari is a quality car and better than the Merc, even in Hamilton's hands, on at least one of the remaining races.

Which, out of interest? Mexico? Abu Dhabi?

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Derek Smith said:

The fat lady has not even taken a deep breath so let's not get too negative.

Just yet.

The Ferrari is a quality car and better than the Merc, even in Hamilton's hands, on at least one of the remaining races. The RB is up there as well so LH will struggle in one race.

There's still a fight left.

Amen to that.

[Byker28i]

768 said:

Leroy902 said:

I can't understand how there can possible be soo much controversy in F1 WITHOUT Lewis being involved!?...

Vettel nearly managed to involve Hamilton with his spin. I think Lewis might have lost it then let alone the internet.

If, as claimed, vettels car was damaged and he spun on his coolant, then the chop on hamilton could be construed that he knew his race was over and he was trying to take out hamilton.
I don't think it was until after he hit the wall. I think he chopped hamilton having seen him get a good start, saw him pick a different line and lost his back end trying to get the power down to aggressively seeing hamilton coming.