McLaren to use Renault Engines

McLaren to use Renault Engines

Author
Discussion

HustleRussell

24,701 posts

160 months

Wednesday 13th September 2017
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hairyben said:

How so? Merc have/had capacity to provide for 4, renault have always seemed less keen on the idea. The issue feels to me to be on mclarens side not wanting to publically egg their own faces by going back to merc, after making such a deal about needing to be a works team, thus putting their failures on the merc engine...
hairyben said:
Mclaren never really blamed the merc engine though - well they couldnt really - more the fact they themselves weren't a works team. And it seemed a fairly amicable divorce, compared say to the noises coming out of red bull over the renault PU (which is maybe why renault haven't exactly been hyper keen to provide engines to another top team)

You dont know the ins and outs of course, but to me it simply feels like its mclarens hangup rather than mercs.
IIRC the McLaren Mercedes was not as powerful as the Mercedes Mercedes in 2014 because McLaren were tied to their sponsor, Mobil, for fuel and lubricants supply- an area where Mercedes and PETRONAS had been very, very creative during the development stage (the extent of their creativity is still being revealed now, years later...)

Buzz84

1,145 posts

149 months

Wednesday 13th September 2017
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
hairyben said:

How so? Merc have/had capacity to provide for 4, renault have always seemed less keen on the idea. The issue feels to me to be on mclarens side not wanting to publically egg their own faces by going back to merc, after making such a deal about needing to be a works team, thus putting their failures on the merc engine...
hairyben said:
Mclaren never really blamed the merc engine though - well they couldnt really - more the fact they themselves weren't a works team. And it seemed a fairly amicable divorce, compared say to the noises coming out of red bull over the renault PU (which is maybe why renault haven't exactly been hyper keen to provide engines to another top team)

You dont know the ins and outs of course, but to me it simply feels like its mclarens hangup rather than mercs.
IIRC the McLaren Mercedes was not as powerful as the Mercedes Mercedes in 2014 because McLaren were tied to their sponsor, Mobil, for fuel and lubricants supply- an area where Mercedes and PETRONAS had been very, very creative during the development stage (the extent of their creativity is still being revealed now, years later...)
McLaren also, as a customer team, never had the same spec of engines as the works Mercedes team ran. which of course is standard practice across all of the suppliers.

dafeller

599 posts

190 months

Wednesday 13th September 2017
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wibble cb said:
2009 Honda was designed around a Honda power unit, dropping a Mercedes power unit in there at the last minute once Brawn took over didn't seem to cause much of an issue....
Those weren't hybrid power units, were they? I'm under the impression that the entire electrical issue alone festers in every design element. Just so much more packaging, cooling, hardware. But maybe not; I only know what I read.

miniman

24,956 posts

262 months

Wednesday 13th September 2017
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Got to be worth a wager on Torro Rosso for 2018 constructors I'd say.

rubystone

11,254 posts

259 months

Wednesday 13th September 2017
quotequote all
hairyben said:
Mclaren never really blamed the merc engine though - well they couldnt really - more the fact they themselves weren't a works team. And it seemed a fairly amicable divorce, compared say to the noises coming out of red bull over the renault PU (which is maybe why renault haven't exactly been hyper keen to provide engines to another top team)

You dont know the ins and outs of course, but to me it simply feels like its mclarens hangup rather than mercs.
Actually, Zetsche and the board killed the deal. Nothing to do with McLaren.

rubystone

11,254 posts

259 months

Wednesday 13th September 2017
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Dr Murdoch said:
How will they keep up with the others in the development race?

They're losing 100 million from Honda, they are now paying for Renault engines and they have hardly any sponsors of note.

Oh, and Alonso on the books.
They're owned by the Bahraini royal family!!!!!!!!

Dr Murdoch

3,444 posts

135 months

Wednesday 13th September 2017
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rubystone said:
They're owned by the Bahraini royal family!!!!!!!!
Calm down Flower, I was only asking a question.

Dermot O'Logical

2,579 posts

129 months

Wednesday 13th September 2017
quotequote all
rubystone said:
Dr Murdoch said:
How will they keep up with the others in the development race?

They're losing 100 million from Honda, they are now paying for Renault engines and they have hardly any sponsors of note.

Oh, and Alonso on the books.
They're owned by the Bahraini royal family!!!!!!!!
They're part owned by the Bahraini Royal family's sovereign wealth fund. The other part is owned by Mansour Ojjeh. But I read recently that these two majority shareholders have yet to make the payment to Ron Dennis for his shares. Which may mean that they feel that they have enough of an investment in McLaren, and might not feel inclined to keep throwing money at a Formula 1 team which is desperately trying to claw its way back to respectability. The team needs a major sponsor, but have to prove themselves an attractive proposition after a disastrous three years, so the 2018 season is important.

Under-funded, behind the development curve with a new power unit to integrate, with their star driver yet to commit for another term and a recent history of under-achievement (we know the excuse for being the worst of the Mercedes engined teams in 2014, but the fact remains that McLaren haven't built a consistent front-running car since 2012). The senior management team will have their work cut out - the Renault is the second weakest engine package after Honda, so the chances of them competing with Red Bull or even the Renault works team seem remote.

thegreenhell

15,346 posts

219 months

Wednesday 13th September 2017
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HustleRussell said:
IIRC the McLaren Mercedes was not as powerful as the Mercedes Mercedes in 2014 because McLaren were tied to their sponsor, Mobil, for fuel and lubricants supply- an area where Mercedes and PETRONAS had been very, very creative during the development stage (the extent of their creativity is still being revealed now, years later...)
At least they shouldn't suffer that disadvantage to the Renault works team, as they are both currently with BP Castrol, whereas Red Bull are tied to ExxonMobil for fuel and lube.

glazbagun

14,280 posts

197 months

Thursday 14th September 2017
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Yeah I always got the impression that Mercedes would have been happy to keep supplying McLaren given thier history, but no force on earth weaker than a billion dollars was going to stop Mercedes crushing 2014.

The Honda partnership made sense at the time I'm sure, and Renualt to their credit do seem to have a staying power (despite leaving at the top of their game on a couple of occasions) that Honda lack. I do wonder how the PSA guys feel about pulling out of endurance racing where they were a real big fish fighting a great battle to now coming up against the best of British engineering with unlimited German marketing money which must surely feel like an uneven playing field even to them.

Vocal Minority

8,582 posts

152 months

Thursday 14th September 2017
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Dermot O'Logical said:
the Renault is the second weakest engine package after Honda, so the chances of them competing with Red Bull or even the Renault works team seem remote.
I'm struggling to follow the logic of this sentence.......


HustleRussell

24,701 posts

160 months

Thursday 14th September 2017
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Makes sense to me

Vocal Minority

8,582 posts

152 months

Thursday 14th September 2017
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The renault is better than the Honda.....so they will struggle to keep up with other Renault engined cars....

AJB88

12,421 posts

171 months

Thursday 14th September 2017
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Buzz84 said:
McLaren-Dacia
Yes!

suffolk009

5,401 posts

165 months

Thursday 14th September 2017
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Is it possible that McLaren might badge the Renault engine a.....McLaren?

toastyhamster

1,664 posts

96 months

glazbagun

14,280 posts

197 months

Thursday 14th September 2017
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toastyhamster said:
Karma.

DanielSan

18,793 posts

167 months

Thursday 14th September 2017
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Given Alonso's luck this means it'll be Danny Ric or Vestappen as 2019 champion then...

Dr Z

3,396 posts

171 months

Thursday 14th September 2017
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It's not a bad deal that Zak has managed to get. Whilst I wasn't in favour of a customer Renault PU, it appears this deal would include parity with the works PUs, with the fuel & lubricant supplier also being the same with the works team. Smart.

Now for Peter and co to deliver a cracking (no pun intended) chassis. We have managed to secure the Renault engines 25 years later. Excited about 2018.

rubystone

11,254 posts

259 months

Thursday 14th September 2017
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Dr Murdoch said:
Calm down Flower, I was only asking a question.
smile