McLaren to use Renault Engines
Discussion
hairyben said:
How so? Merc have/had capacity to provide for 4, renault have always seemed less keen on the idea. The issue feels to me to be on mclarens side not wanting to publically egg their own faces by going back to merc, after making such a deal about needing to be a works team, thus putting their failures on the merc engine...
hairyben said:
Mclaren never really blamed the merc engine though - well they couldnt really - more the fact they themselves weren't a works team. And it seemed a fairly amicable divorce, compared say to the noises coming out of red bull over the renault PU (which is maybe why renault haven't exactly been hyper keen to provide engines to another top team)
You dont know the ins and outs of course, but to me it simply feels like its mclarens hangup rather than mercs.
IIRC the McLaren Mercedes was not as powerful as the Mercedes Mercedes in 2014 because McLaren were tied to their sponsor, Mobil, for fuel and lubricants supply- an area where Mercedes and PETRONAS had been very, very creative during the development stage (the extent of their creativity is still being revealed now, years later...)You dont know the ins and outs of course, but to me it simply feels like its mclarens hangup rather than mercs.
HustleRussell said:
hairyben said:
How so? Merc have/had capacity to provide for 4, renault have always seemed less keen on the idea. The issue feels to me to be on mclarens side not wanting to publically egg their own faces by going back to merc, after making such a deal about needing to be a works team, thus putting their failures on the merc engine...
hairyben said:
Mclaren never really blamed the merc engine though - well they couldnt really - more the fact they themselves weren't a works team. And it seemed a fairly amicable divorce, compared say to the noises coming out of red bull over the renault PU (which is maybe why renault haven't exactly been hyper keen to provide engines to another top team)
You dont know the ins and outs of course, but to me it simply feels like its mclarens hangup rather than mercs.
IIRC the McLaren Mercedes was not as powerful as the Mercedes Mercedes in 2014 because McLaren were tied to their sponsor, Mobil, for fuel and lubricants supply- an area where Mercedes and PETRONAS had been very, very creative during the development stage (the extent of their creativity is still being revealed now, years later...)You dont know the ins and outs of course, but to me it simply feels like its mclarens hangup rather than mercs.
wibble cb said:
2009 Honda was designed around a Honda power unit, dropping a Mercedes power unit in there at the last minute once Brawn took over didn't seem to cause much of an issue....
Those weren't hybrid power units, were they? I'm under the impression that the entire electrical issue alone festers in every design element. Just so much more packaging, cooling, hardware. But maybe not; I only know what I read. hairyben said:
Mclaren never really blamed the merc engine though - well they couldnt really - more the fact they themselves weren't a works team. And it seemed a fairly amicable divorce, compared say to the noises coming out of red bull over the renault PU (which is maybe why renault haven't exactly been hyper keen to provide engines to another top team)
You dont know the ins and outs of course, but to me it simply feels like its mclarens hangup rather than mercs.
Actually, Zetsche and the board killed the deal. Nothing to do with McLaren. You dont know the ins and outs of course, but to me it simply feels like its mclarens hangup rather than mercs.
rubystone said:
Dr Murdoch said:
How will they keep up with the others in the development race?
They're losing 100 million from Honda, they are now paying for Renault engines and they have hardly any sponsors of note.
Oh, and Alonso on the books.
They're owned by the Bahraini royal family!!!!!!!! They're losing 100 million from Honda, they are now paying for Renault engines and they have hardly any sponsors of note.
Oh, and Alonso on the books.
Under-funded, behind the development curve with a new power unit to integrate, with their star driver yet to commit for another term and a recent history of under-achievement (we know the excuse for being the worst of the Mercedes engined teams in 2014, but the fact remains that McLaren haven't built a consistent front-running car since 2012). The senior management team will have their work cut out - the Renault is the second weakest engine package after Honda, so the chances of them competing with Red Bull or even the Renault works team seem remote.
HustleRussell said:
IIRC the McLaren Mercedes was not as powerful as the Mercedes Mercedes in 2014 because McLaren were tied to their sponsor, Mobil, for fuel and lubricants supply- an area where Mercedes and PETRONAS had been very, very creative during the development stage (the extent of their creativity is still being revealed now, years later...)
At least they shouldn't suffer that disadvantage to the Renault works team, as they are both currently with BP Castrol, whereas Red Bull are tied to ExxonMobil for fuel and lube.Yeah I always got the impression that Mercedes would have been happy to keep supplying McLaren given thier history, but no force on earth weaker than a billion dollars was going to stop Mercedes crushing 2014.
The Honda partnership made sense at the time I'm sure, and Renualt to their credit do seem to have a staying power (despite leaving at the top of their game on a couple of occasions) that Honda lack. I do wonder how the PSA guys feel about pulling out of endurance racing where they were a real big fish fighting a great battle to now coming up against the best of British engineering with unlimited German marketing money which must surely feel like an uneven playing field even to them.
The Honda partnership made sense at the time I'm sure, and Renualt to their credit do seem to have a staying power (despite leaving at the top of their game on a couple of occasions) that Honda lack. I do wonder how the PSA guys feel about pulling out of endurance racing where they were a real big fish fighting a great battle to now coming up against the best of British engineering with unlimited German marketing money which must surely feel like an uneven playing field even to them.
It's not a bad deal that Zak has managed to get. Whilst I wasn't in favour of a customer Renault PU, it appears this deal would include parity with the works PUs, with the fuel & lubricant supplier also being the same with the works team. Smart.
Now for Peter and co to deliver a cracking (no pun intended) chassis. We have managed to secure the Renault engines 25 years later. Excited about 2018.
Now for Peter and co to deliver a cracking (no pun intended) chassis. We have managed to secure the Renault engines 25 years later. Excited about 2018.
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