The Official 2017 US Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
moanthebairns said:
Anyone found out if the big f
k of pterodactyl was fake or real?
F1 twitter saying it was CG.k of pterodactyl was fake or real?https://twitter.com/F1/status/922584631400157191
The Moose said:
I hate to say this but the live fans were not upset! If anything there was excitement and tension in the stands whilst finding out what Max’s reaction would be when he saw Kimi and was kicked out of the room of awkwardness!
I see. Apologies, I'd read reports of booing.So, another one to add to the pot:
From Ham's pole qualifying lap.
If he was to adjust his line here so that he wasn't 4 wheels off, this wouldn't have cost him a tenth or two? Maybe affected his line (and speed) into the following corner too? When the purpose of qualifying is to set the fastest time, and drivers aren't penalised for taking a line which has a positive effect on their lap time, how is that consistent with other applications of the rule and not 'gaining a lasting advantage'?
There's only 2 reasons (in qualy) a driver will use the space outside of the track limits. Because of (1) a mistake, or (2) because it helps their lap time through speed or smoothness or opening the radius of the corner and thus allowing them to carry more speed. That in itself is gaining an advantage by using a part of the track outside of its limits.
Edited by Andy S15 on Tuesday 24th October 12:50
Andy S15 said:
moanthebairns said:
Anyone found out if the big fk of pterodactyl was fake or real?
F1 twitter saying it was CG.k of pterodactyl was fake or real?https://twitter.com/F1/status/922584631400157191
k me 30 pages of arguing about track limits. What a fking sport.
Andy S15 said:
So, another one to add to the pot:
From Ham's pole qualifying lap.
If he was to adjust his line here so that he wasn't 4 wheels off, this wouldn't have cost him a tenth or two? Maybe affected his line (and speed) into the following corner too? When the purpose of qualifying is to set the fastest time, and drivers aren't penalised for taking a line which has a positive effect on their lap time, how is that consistent with other applications of the rule and not 'gaining a lasting advantage'?
There's only 2 reasons (in qualy) a driver will use the space outside of the track limits. Because of (1) a mistake, or (2) because it helps their lap time through speed or smoothness or opening the radius of the corner and thus allowing them to carry more speed. That in itself is gaining an advantage by using a part of the track outside of its limits.
He is not deliberately cutting a corner - he is running wide in understeer - so a mistake. It was mentioned several times how difficult the wind direction was on Saturday. From Ham's pole qualifying lap.
If he was to adjust his line here so that he wasn't 4 wheels off, this wouldn't have cost him a tenth or two? Maybe affected his line (and speed) into the following corner too? When the purpose of qualifying is to set the fastest time, and drivers aren't penalised for taking a line which has a positive effect on their lap time, how is that consistent with other applications of the rule and not 'gaining a lasting advantage'?
There's only 2 reasons (in qualy) a driver will use the space outside of the track limits. Because of (1) a mistake, or (2) because it helps their lap time through speed or smoothness or opening the radius of the corner and thus allowing them to carry more speed. That in itself is gaining an advantage by using a part of the track outside of its limits.
Edited by Andy S15 on Tuesday 24th October 12:50
HAM, himself said how difficult the tail wind through the esses were, and also how much better on Sunday when it was a headwind, effectively pinning the car to the track.
I still genuinely don’t get the argument that gaining a position by going off track is any different to not losing a position by going off track.
Take Ric vs Bot again at turn one. Yes it was an ambitious lunge from Daniel, but it was perfectly legal, he stayed within track limits and appeared to have his nose ahead going into the corner. Bottas chose to keep his foot in and run (seriously) wide.
I don’t buy the argument that Bottas was forced off track, he did because he could. Add gravel, grass or a wall even 10ft beyond the white line and he makes the decision to ease off and drop in behind Daniel.
I can’t see how he didn’t gain an advantage by going off track. Not losing a position is the same as gaining one.
Take Ric vs Bot again at turn one. Yes it was an ambitious lunge from Daniel, but it was perfectly legal, he stayed within track limits and appeared to have his nose ahead going into the corner. Bottas chose to keep his foot in and run (seriously) wide.
I don’t buy the argument that Bottas was forced off track, he did because he could. Add gravel, grass or a wall even 10ft beyond the white line and he makes the decision to ease off and drop in behind Daniel.
I can’t see how he didn’t gain an advantage by going off track. Not losing a position is the same as gaining one.
Andy S15 said:
I see. Apologies, I'd read reports of booing.
So, another one to add to the pot:
From Ham's pole qualifying lap.
If he was to adjust his line here so that he wasn't 4 wheels off, this wouldn't have cost him a tenth or two? Maybe affected his line (and speed) into the following corner too? When the purpose of qualifying is to set the fastest time, and drivers aren't penalised for taking a line which has a positive effect on their lap time, how is that consistent with other applications of the rule and not 'gaining a lasting advantage'?
There's only 2 reasons (in qualy) a driver will use the space outside of the track limits. Because of (1) a mistake, or (2) because it helps their lap time through speed or smoothness or opening the radius of the corner and thus allowing them to carry more speed. That in itself is gaining an advantage by using a part of the track outside of its limits.
Apologies if that sounded curt - wasn’t meant to, but that’s what a 5:30am wake up call does to me!So, another one to add to the pot:
From Ham's pole qualifying lap.
If he was to adjust his line here so that he wasn't 4 wheels off, this wouldn't have cost him a tenth or two? Maybe affected his line (and speed) into the following corner too? When the purpose of qualifying is to set the fastest time, and drivers aren't penalised for taking a line which has a positive effect on their lap time, how is that consistent with other applications of the rule and not 'gaining a lasting advantage'?
There's only 2 reasons (in qualy) a driver will use the space outside of the track limits. Because of (1) a mistake, or (2) because it helps their lap time through speed or smoothness or opening the radius of the corner and thus allowing them to carry more speed. That in itself is gaining an advantage by using a part of the track outside of its limits.
Edited by Andy S15 on Tuesday 24th October 12:50
Of course I am only 1 person and can only comment on my observations in the stand I was sitting in.
We were sitting at T12 - the hairpin after the back straight. We saw a great battle between those 2 into 12 and through 13, 14 and 15. Our view ran out on the entry to the next. It was exciting from where we were sitting!
There was an initial groan when the penalty was announced as we had just witnessed the exciting racing and then followed almost excitement amongst the crowd waiting for Kimi to claim his place.
Of course, I don’t know what probably 90% of the other fans were thinking but I didn’t hear booing as you describe - could have happened elsewhere.
It certainly wasn’t talk of the crowd at the queue to get into Stevie.
Edited by The Moose on Tuesday 24th October 13:17
rdjohn said:
He is not deliberately cutting a corner - he is running wide in understeer - so a mistake. It was mentioned several times how difficult the wind direction was on Saturday.
HAM, himself said how difficult the tail wind through the esses were, and also how much better on Sunday when it was a headwind, effectively pinning the car to the track.
Yes but I am sure if the drivers had a gravel trap on the outside of the corner he would not be pushing so hard.HAM, himself said how difficult the tail wind through the esses were, and also how much better on Sunday when it was a headwind, effectively pinning the car to the track.
This is not the fault of the drivers it is the fault of the over the top safety which modern circuits must abide by.
Yes by all means make things safer but when it becomes too safe it spoils the sport and less skilled drivers can enter the sport with their big wallets.
Do not tell me that drivers don't know by going a bit off the track at certain corners will not give them an advantage along the next section.
Track limits however should be track limits and if you go wide but still set a better time then it should be void.
Bigger kerbs could sort this but then it becomes a safety issue if a car has a problem.
Artificial grass use to sort them out but again it was causing issues with falling apart and coming onto the track or in the wet races it became dangerous.
It takes too much time for each and every incident to be reviewed so perhaps deactivating that DRS for a lap would be the answer to stopping the drivers from taking the pi** lap in lap out.
rdjohn said:
He is not deliberately cutting a corner - he is running wide in understeer - so a mistake. It was mentioned several times how difficult the wind direction was on Saturday.
HAM, himself said how difficult the tail wind through the esses were, and also how much better on Sunday when it was a headwind, effectively pinning the car to the track.
Did he drive appropriately to those conditions though? No, he kept his foot in it. If there was grass there would he have been able to do the same? He'd have had to get well out of the throttle, so therefore by running wide he gained an advantage by... not disadvantaging himself.HAM, himself said how difficult the tail wind through the esses were, and also how much better on Sunday when it was a headwind, effectively pinning the car to the track.
Genuinely not trying to argue here - I just think the inconsistency is interesting. There should be no difference in penalty by cutting the inside or running wide on the outside. Both carry an advantage in their own way over staying within the lines.
Also, I'm not asking for penalties for everyone. I'd be all for grass/gravel or some sort of self regulating system. But give the drivers the opportunity to abuse the system and they will.
angrymoby said:
InductionRoar said:
You think Niki Lauda obtains his information from the C4 coverage? I'm sure the Mercedes team operate at a higher level than that. Undoubtedly, they have the PH thread open on their laptops and gain the insight of the experts on here rather than their in-house statisticians.
Surprisingly, teams only have access to their own teams FOM onboard feeds & telemetry.But it's nice you think that Niki, rather than celebrate Lewis' win & Merc's WCC win, had not only the time, but also the inclination to go up to the stewards room & then somehow be magically granted to access, so he could form an opinion of what 2 rival team drivers did/ didn't do
Or, maybe he just had a quick look at some FOM replays like the rest of us & made an off the cuff comment to reporters (which most of us at the time would've agreed with)
Edited by angrymoby on Monday 23 October 18:00
Track limits are track limits, it should be the same for them as it is for us in Club Motorsport. I personally would have penalised the lot of them for it not just one of the incidents.
That said, there is a difference between leaving the track at corner exit and straight up corner cutting.
That said, there is a difference between leaving the track at corner exit and straight up corner cutting.
geeks said:
Track limits are track limits, it should be the same for them as it is for us in Club Motorsport. I personally would have penalised the lot of them for it not just one of the incidents.
That said, there is a difference between leaving the track at corner exit and straight up corner cutting.
And the difference is???That said, there is a difference between leaving the track at corner exit and straight up corner cutting.
TheInternet said:
We already have a DRS function, can we not have a DIS system that kicks in for a few seconds should track limits be exceeded? Either on-the-fly or during the next DRS zone following a proven offence.
Probably unworkable but I like the idea of the DRS flap flicking up to slow the car and signal the indiscretion.
That's quite a good idea actually. If not a DIS system then losing DRS for a couple of laps per indiscretion. Ok I know DRS isn't live the whole race but still not a bad work aroundProbably unworkable but I like the idea of the DRS flap flicking up to slow the car and signal the indiscretion.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
TheInternet said:
We already have a DRS function, can we not have a DIS system that kicks in for a few seconds should track limits be exceeded? Either on-the-fly or during the next DRS zone following a proven offence.
Probably unworkable but I like the idea of the DRS flap flicking up to slow the car and signal the indiscretion.
That's quite a good idea actually. If not a DIS system then losing DRS for a couple of laps per indiscretion. Ok I know DRS isn't live the whole race but still not a bad work aroundProbably unworkable but I like the idea of the DRS flap flicking up to slow the car and signal the indiscretion.
jm doc said:
geeks said:
Track limits are track limits, it should be the same for them as it is for us in Club Motorsport. I personally would have penalised the lot of them for it not just one of the incidents.
That said, there is a difference between leaving the track at corner exit and straight up corner cutting.
And the difference is???That said, there is a difference between leaving the track at corner exit and straight up corner cutting.
jm doc said:
geeks said:
Track limits are track limits, it should be the same for them as it is for us in Club Motorsport. I personally would have penalised the lot of them for it not just one of the incidents.
That said, there is a difference between leaving the track at corner exit and straight up corner cutting.
And the difference is???That said, there is a difference between leaving the track at corner exit and straight up corner cutting.
VladD said:
jm doc said:
geeks said:
Track limits are track limits, it should be the same for them as it is for us in Club Motorsport. I personally would have penalised the lot of them for it not just one of the incidents.
That said, there is a difference between leaving the track at corner exit and straight up corner cutting.
And the difference is???That said, there is a difference between leaving the track at corner exit and straight up corner cutting.
And in both instances you are gaining an advantage, and overtaking can take place in both instances.
So no difference then....
Unless you pass a Ferrari of course.
ETA And whether you're overtaking, getting closer (as DR did cutting the esses on Bottas) or just keeping up with the guy in front, you are GAINING AN ADVANTAGE.
Edited by jm doc on Tuesday 24th October 15:12
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