The Official 2017 US Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**

[rdjohn]

Andy S15 said:

Did he drive appropriately to those conditions though? No, he kept his foot in it. If there was grass there would he have been able to do the same? He'd have had to get well out of the throttle, so therefore by running wide he gained an advantage by... not disadvantaging himself.

Genuinely not trying to argue here - I just think the inconsistency is interesting. There should be no difference in penalty by cutting the inside or running wide on the outside. Both carry an advantage in their own way over staying within the lines.

Also, I'm not asking for penalties for everyone. I'd be all for grass/gravel or some sort of self regulating system. But give the drivers the opportunity to abuse the system and they will.

Charlie has taken the view that running wide on exit adds extra metres to the track length and therfore does not justify a penalty. Whereas cutting a corner reduces track length and normally is rightly penalised.

I agree that a wall, or gravel trap would be a better deterrent, but we have to live in the world as it is.. A world championship made op of circuits like Monaco, Baku, Canada, Singapore would, probably, not be popular.

However, I do believe that after this year’s controversy the track limits will be better regulated next year.

[Dr Z]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

HustleRussell said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Where's the Mexico thread anyways?

Sounds like you just volunteered

I would, I was certain there was an F1 template thread in order for someone to copy and paste it each week but can't find it. If it's out there it really should be a sticky..

Go on, copy the OP of this thread and update the times/track map and the relevant links, and we're good to go!

Hamilton could well seal his 4th this weekend, so one of his fans can start it off?

[Derek Smith]

Dr Z said:

Go on, copy the OP of this thread and update the times/track map and the relevant links, and we're good to go!

Hamilton could well seal his 4th this weekend, so one of his fans can start it off?

I'm not sure if I'm classed as a Hamilton fan, but I do enjoy watching him race. He's one of my favourite drivers, and that's since 1966. But I'm disappointed that he will probably be at least 5th this weekend. I don't place particular emphasis on the WDC. The only thing it proves is who won the most points, but two races to go with it already decided is not going to increase excitement.

I'm pleased for Hamilton, don't get me wrong, but I wish it would go down to the wire.

The one thing I've been hoping for all season is for the RB drivers to go head to head, battling it out in front of the cameras. With only three races to go, time is running out. They differ in their style of driving and I think it would be fascinating. Also, this far into the season, surely team orders would not rule.

[rdjohn]

Derek Smith said:

I don't place particular emphasis on the WDC. The only thing it proves is who won the most points, but two races to go with it already decided is not going to increase excitement.

I am surprised that you say that!

A bit like saying that the WCC is only really a measure of who has the biggest budget Vs a propensity to mess things up.

The events on the track are what draw fans and that will be enhanced when a budget cap arrives. More teams to watch and IP spread more evenly might even produce more drivers capable of taking a podium.

[stiII_I_undomyseatbelts]

rdjohn said:

Charlie has taken the view that running wide on exit adds extra metres to the track length and therfore does not justify a penalty. Whereas cutting a corner reduces track length and normally is rightly penalised.

I'm surprised Charlie never heard of this thing called momentum which is what one gains when running wide unless there is something causing cars to slow down when they do it.

[FourWheelDrift]

They were getting penalised at the Red Bull ring for going wide at turns 1 and turns 9 and 10.

[Derek Smith]

rdjohn said:

I am surprised that you say that!

A bit like saying that the WCC is only really a measure of who has the biggest budget Vs a propensity to mess things up.

The events on the track are what draw fans and that will be enhanced when a budget cap arrives. More teams to watch and IP spread more evenly might even produce more drivers capable of taking a podium.

The WDC doesn't prove who is the best driver around. It doesn't prove who has come up against challenges and surmounted them. It is, almost by definition, a construct. It is there to add excitement to the run of GPs. In this it is successful as far as I'm concerned, but I know it means little with regards who is the best.

If Hamilton wins, as seems very likely, it does not make him a better driver than, for instance, Alonso or Vettel. I think he is the most exciting driver of the three to watch (or used to be, he's matured a bit unfortunately) but the best? You can't prove he is by quoting the number of wins or WDCs.

Shumacher has won more WDCs than Hamilton. Does that prove he is a better driver? (The question is rhetorical and not an invitation to an interminable 'my favourite is better than yours' thread.)

[Sylvaforever]

Well?

[E34-3.2]

Sylvaforever said:

Well?

Well, Sainz didn't overtake Ocon. No cheating then.

[HustleRussell]

Sylvaforever said:

Well?

..and how many times has this already been discussed in the thread?

[Dr Z]

Derek Smith said:

I'm not sure if I'm classed as a Hamilton fan, but I do enjoy watching him race. He's one of my favourite drivers, and that's since 1966. But I'm disappointed that he will probably be at least 5th this weekend. I don't place particular emphasis on the WDC. The only thing it proves is who won the most points, but two races to go with it already decided is not going to increase excitement.

I'm pleased for Hamilton, don't get me wrong, but I wish it would go down to the wire.

The one thing I've been hoping for all season is for the RB drivers to go head to head, battling it out in front of the cameras. With only three races to go, time is running out. They differ in their style of driving and I think it would be fascinating. Also, this far into the season, surely team orders would not rule.

You sound like a fan! A 5th place this weekend would be enough to seal the title.

---

stiII_I_undomyseatbelts said:

rdjohn said:

Charlie has taken the view that running wide on exit adds extra metres to the track length and therfore does not justify a penalty. Whereas cutting a corner reduces track length and normally is rightly penalised.

I'm surprised Charlie never heard of this thing called momentum which is what one gains when running wide unless there is something causing cars to slow down when they do it.

Most often the extra momentum is cancelled out by the extra distance travelled by going off track, hence the lack of penalties on some corners; and this applies to a car going off by itself. However, in a racing situation keeping the momentum even after going off track will allow a driver to fight back in the subsequent corners and actually gain a lasting advantage as it happened with Ricciardo v Bottas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI6unBzCF8c

Ric v Bot starts around 0:40 mark...

I think the first move from Ricciardo was fine, but he pushed Bottas off track who then proceeds to keep his foot in and get the place back. The second time around was an outrageously late lunge from Ricciardo, locking up and everything, the full works... only the awareness of Bottas there averted a collision, but again Bottas gets it back.

I think I would be in favour of a warning first time around and have some form of time penalty 2nd time. Also, I'd be in favour of going back to the original track limit defintion and not messing about trying to work out which corners are ok to go off and which are not. It's not easy to explain to a casual viewer why one guy gets penalised for going off track and another not.

Sylvaforever said:

Well?

No lasting advantage gained because Sainz did not end up overtaking Ocon.