New engine regs for 2021

[Dr Z]

thegreenhell said:

CraigyMc said:

Doink said:

...they don't get near that stopping at 12,000...

You're talking bks.

TBF that's not exactly representative. He's obviously in a DRS tow on a long straight in top gear, hence revving beyond the usual range. They usually upshift between 11 and 12k revs. They never get close to the current 15k rpm limit.

In 2014, the Merc engine quite regularly exceeded 12000 rpm in quali laps, and touched 13000 on occasion without a tow. The limit has come down with every year to <12000 rpm now. This year's Honda & Ferrari also exceed 12000 rpm quite easily in quali laps.

[Doink]

CraigyMc said:

Doink said:

...they don't get near that stopping at 12,000...

You're talking bks.

Alright they stop at 13, no need to be a about it is there, so I was a thousand out, woopie fking doo

[turbomoped]

Renault and Honda blow up now running lower max revs.Should be interesting.

[Bo_apex]

5 litre

V12

thanks.

[johnxjsc1985]

Bo_apex said:

5 litre

V12

thanks.

at last a man of impeccable taste

[CraigyMc]

Doink said:

Alright they stop at 13, no need to be a about it is there, so I was a thousand out, woopie fking doo

You're the one posting bks, and I'm the ?

Nice.

[_Leg_]

CraigyMc said:

Doink said:

Alright they stop at 13, no need to be a about it is there, so I was a thousand out, woopie fking doo

You're the one posting bks, and I'm the ?

Nice.

That's how it would appear to come across old bean.

[Wh00sher]

Page 2 and name calling already

If they engineer the rules re fuel flow, boost and turbo size so they need to use higher revs I don`t see that as a bad thing. The lack of MGU-H will mean they`ll use the wastegate more won`t it ?

My understanding is that they use the MGU-H to control the boost at the moment by slowing the Turbo electrically, which is why the wastegate isn`t used so a great deal. Once they remove that you`ll get more noise that way too.

[anonymous-user]

CraigyMc said:

Doink said:

Alright they stop at 13, no need to be a about it is there, so I was a thousand out, woopie fking doo

You're the one posting bks, and I'm the ?

Nice.

Can we keep this civil chaps.

Its pretty obvious the point being made was that the current engines aren't being run at the limit, so adding to that limit with no other changes makes no difference.

To make any difference by adding rpm, you are going to need a different philosophy on how the engine produces peak power and usable torque.

It's pretty disappointing that they have mandated a single turbo, but based on the info so far I would say they are going to ban the current combustion design philosophy, returning to a simple cylinder head concept and lower static compression ratio. It also sounds like they are looking to limit fuel blends so they cant get away with running diesel levels of pressures. This all plays into having to rev them higher as they head back more towards the NA cylinder pressure range.

Overall, I think it will make very little difference to the noise levels, it will just produce a higher pitch, because you still have a single turbine wheel acting as a silencer and the energy isn't going up.

I wish they would ditch the road car relevance, its a load of bks playing to the politics, they should have at least upped the engine size to a 2.4 litre, then we would get more noise and negated the loss of the MGU. We need to see smaller batteries, not bigger, to get the weight down so they start working like agile cars again.

[The Moose]

jsf said:

I wish they would ditch the road car relevance, its a load of bks playing to the politics, they should have at least upped the engine size to a 2.4 litre, then we would get more noise and negated the loss of the MGU. We need to see smaller batteries, not bigger, to get the weight down so they start working like agile cars again.

They have looked pretty agile to me this year!

[anonymous-user]

watch some footage from 10 years ago, they react like tankers compared to then.

[stevesingo]

The problem with the noise is, turbos! They dampen the noise whilst they are absorbing energy, so it is bo locks that they think this will make a huge difference.

1, 4lt V8-10000rpm, direct injection (should give 750bhpish NA)
2, Coil valve spring (pneumatic valves have no road relevance)
3, Variable valve timing and lift. (giving a nice wide power band)
4, KERS 200kW(268hp) acting the same as now with an energy store of say 6mJ at current battery density. See 7.
5, Electrically driven supercharging would be allowed
6, Fuel limit set at say110kg per race, for now.
7, Battery capacity dictated by volume, not mJ. So, if with current tech we can get 6mJ in to 0.2m3 we set the limit at 0.2mJ and let the cell manufacturers increase energy density!
8, 6 speed gearbox with fixed ratios as now.

We would have an engine which makes a DFV sound (wont have a noise sapping turbo and HERS) which when boosted with KERS and or electric supercharger, well over 1000hp. The engine would be forced by the gear ratios to operate over a wide operating band hence VVT+L (just like a road engine), it would need to be efficient (road relevant), It will drive engine manufacturers to deliver road relevent tech and push battery manufacturers to increase energy density. Hell, they could even become primary sponsors!

[Norfolkit]

johnxjsc1985 said:

Bo_apex said:

5 litre

V12

thanks.

at last a man of impeccable taste

Nah, BRM V16, that's the way to go.

[anonymous-user]

Funny how in the 80's they managed to make the Turbo cars exciting and sound amazing.

When they finished

[anonymous-user]

80's turbo cars sound dull, like a fart in a blanket.

[suffolk009]

I still don't understand how they are going to get drivers to "save up" their electrical charge for two or three laps without having to make the battery two or three times the size it needs to be for one lap?

[coppice]

jsf said:

80's turbo cars sound dull, like a fart in a blanket.

Most of them sounded bloody fabulous from where I was standing. Not as good as a V10 or 12 but very loud and very deep - loved them

[anonymous-user]

stevesingo said:

The problem with the noise is, turbos! They dampen the noise whilst they are absorbing energy, so it is bo locks that they think this will make a huge difference.

1, 4lt V8-10000rpm, direct injection (should give 750bhpish NA)
2, Coil valve spring (pneumatic valves have no road relevance)
3, Variable valve timing and lift. (giving a nice wide power band)
4, KERS 200kW(268hp) acting the same as now with an energy store of say 6mJ at current battery density. See 7.
5, Electrically driven supercharging would be allowed
6, Fuel limit set at say110kg per race, for now.
7, Battery capacity dictated by volume, not mJ. So, if with current tech we can get 6mJ in to 0.2m3 we set the limit at 0.2mJ and let the cell manufacturers increase energy density!
8, 6 speed gearbox with fixed ratios as now.

We would have an engine which makes a DFV sound (wont have a noise sapping turbo and HERS) which when boosted with KERS and or electric supercharger, well over 1000hp. The engine would be forced by the gear ratios to operate over a wide operating band hence VVT+L (just like a road engine), it would need to be efficient (road relevant), It will drive engine manufacturers to deliver road relevent tech and push battery manufacturers to increase energy density. Hell, they could even become primary sponsors!

Do we really want an F1 car propelled by an utterly simple ICE engine that wouldn't appear that remarkable in a backstreet tuner's catalogue?

Do something to make them louder, do something to allow increased downforce for following cars and let all the tech be genuinely cutting edge and difficult/expensive to produce.

If you want a test bed for battery technology, boring Formula E is that way >

[StevieBee]

suffolk009 said:

I still don't understand how they are going to get drivers to "save up" their electrical charge for two or three laps without having to make the battery two or three times the size it needs to be for one lap?

That is part of the intrigue and challenge of F1; to develop solutions in a competitive arena.

[suffolk009]

StevieBee said:

That is part of the intrigue and challenge of F1; to develop solutions in a competitive arena.

Oh, I quite agree - but it's looking like the battery/MGU will be a standard unit from one main supplier. A bit like the McLaren control electronics. So there is no competion to advance the technology there.