New engine regs for 2021

New engine regs for 2021

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Discussion

cuprabob

14,674 posts

215 months

Friday 24th August 2018
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Unless I misunderstood what Christian Horner said during the CH4 coverage today, it looks as though there will be no significant change to the engines in 2021.

Stan the Bat

8,935 posts

213 months

Friday 24th August 2018
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cuprabob said:
Unless I misunderstood what Christian Horner said during the CH4 coverage today, it looks as though there will be no significant change to the engines in 2021.
That's how I understood it as well.

Kraken

1,710 posts

201 months

Tuesday 28th August 2018
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cuprabob said:
Unless I misunderstood what Christian Horner said during the CH4 coverage today, it looks as though there will be no significant change to the engines in 2021.
One of the major reasons for the 2021 change was to bring in new manufacturers. No new ones are interested and the team that was really pushing for it (Red Bull) is sorted now so there's no need to change them now.

thegreenhell

15,404 posts

220 months

Tuesday 28th August 2018
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Kraken said:
cuprabob said:
Unless I misunderstood what Christian Horner said during the CH4 coverage today, it looks as though there will be no significant change to the engines in 2021.
One of the major reasons for the 2021 change was to bring in new manufacturers. No new ones are interested and the team that was really pushing for it (Red Bull) is sorted now so there's no need to change them now.
It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation. No new manufacturer is going to commit the vast resources required to something that has yet to be properly defined, and yet they say that the reason for not defining things properly yet is because no new manufacturers have committed...

Kraken

1,710 posts

201 months

Wednesday 29th August 2018
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thegreenhell said:
It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation. No new manufacturer is going to commit the vast resources required to something that has yet to be properly defined, and yet they say that the reason for not defining things properly yet is because no new manufacturers have committed...
They have been present at all the meetings so they know full well the direction the regs were going in. It's not a case that they have to be totally committed at this stage but it sounds like none of them will commit in principle which is the issue.

Evolved

3,568 posts

188 months

Wednesday 29th August 2018
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Small turbo V6’s. Just leave this here.
https://youtu.be/uupZsfs_8s0

rdjohn

6,189 posts

196 months

Wednesday 29th August 2018
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They could even bring back refuelling to make sure it got to the finish.

HustleRussell

24,724 posts

161 months

Wednesday 29th August 2018
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Great decision to delay the changes to engine regulations IMO. I have been growing increasingly nervous about the prospect of change when after five seasons we have four manufacturers who are converging in terms of performance.

I would like to see them take steps to reduce engine management over the growing calendar by increasing the engine component allocations back up to 4. It bothers me that Valterri Bottas doomed himself to engine penalties in the qualifying session for the first race of the season and has only just taken the pain for that at Spa.

If the 3 PU limit is demonstrably helping the smaller teams I'd be open to keeping it but I suspect we'd see more track action if the standard allocation was 4.

anonymous-user

55 months

Wednesday 29th August 2018
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The engine limit isnt saving a penny. The only way to save money is limit budgets and cost to the privateer teams.

The manufactures just spend the budget they have and the work done always expands into the time that budget allows.

They should have 1 engine per event as a minimum.

ghost83

5,481 posts

191 months

Wednesday 29th August 2018
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To be honest I’d like to see 4-5 engines per season as the manufacturers would bring more engine updates each time

HustleRussell

24,724 posts

161 months

Wednesday 29th August 2018
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jsf said:
The engine limit isnt saving a penny. The only way to save money is limit budgets and cost to the privateer teams.

The manufactures just spend the budget they have and the work done always expands into the time that budget allows.

They should have 1 engine per event as a minimum.
But aren't manufacturers obliged to supply a certain number of teams a seasons' engine supply for a limited price?

The only difference then would be that if that supply is marginal and more components are required, the customer has to buy additional parts over and above.

Mark Carter on the Missed Apex podcast once said that Lotus were heavily limiting their testing laps in season because they didn't want to pay iirc £700k + for an additional PU.

anonymous-user

55 months

Wednesday 29th August 2018
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HustleRussell said:
But aren't manufacturers obliged to supply a certain number of teams a seasons' engine supply for a limited price?

The only difference then would be that if that supply is marginal and more components are required, the customer has to buy additional parts over and above.

Mark Carter on the Missed Apex podcast once said that Lotus were heavily limiting their testing laps in season because they didn't want to pay iirc £700k + for an additional PU.
The cost is in the R&D, they are spending enormous money on developing these engines. All you see at the circuit is the final spec for that development cycle.

As i said, limit the cost the teams can be charged and make that for one engine per event, then we will see some racing rather than the current eek out the engine life cruising around.

When someone like Hamilton gives up to save his engine life rather than spanking the life out of it, you have a serious problem.

HustleRussell

24,724 posts

161 months

Wednesday 29th August 2018
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jsf said:
The cost is in the R&D, they are spending enormous money on developing these engines. All you see at the circuit is the final spec for that development cycle.

As i said, limit the cost the teams can be charged and make that for one engine per event, then we will see some racing rather than the current eek out the engine life cruising around.

When someone like Hamilton gives up to save his engine life rather than spanking the life out of it, you have a serious problem.
Of course, I understand that and I don't disagree- however the manufacturers will spend obscene amounts as long as they are able and the cost of the R & D is borne by them. The customers are protected from this cost as the price of the supply contract is limited.

Where I do disagree is one engine per weekend, but it should be more than 0.14.

CraigyMc

16,423 posts

237 months

Wednesday 29th August 2018
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jsf said:
The cost is in the R&D, they are spending enormous money on developing these engines. All you see at the circuit is the final spec for that development cycle.

As i said, limit the cost the teams can be charged and make that for one engine per event, then we will see some racing rather than the current eek out the engine life cruising around.

When someone like Hamilton gives up to save his engine life rather than spanking the life out of it, you have a serious problem.
What's the actual build cost of a current PU, if you delete the R+D from the price?
It can't be cheap.

anonymous-user

55 months

Wednesday 29th August 2018
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CraigyMc said:
What's the actual build cost of a current PU, if you delete the R+D from the price?
It can't be cheap.
They will never tell you.


coppice

8,624 posts

145 months

Thursday 30th August 2018
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Things went tits up when, as usual , the sport was bullied by manufacturers and told to stop calling engines ..err..'engines' - so last century. Instead we are supposed to call these grotesquely expensive , not stupendously powerful and awful sounding things 'power units'.

Talk about emperor's new clothes

coppice

8,624 posts

145 months

Thursday 30th August 2018
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Evolved said:
Small turbo V6’s. Just leave this here.
https://youtu.be/uupZsfs_8s0
Lovely -and if you liked that check out on YT 'Formula 1 Test Days 1986 Brands Hatch Mansell etc'
Amateur film but superbly shot, better than most pro stuff and THAT noise . I was there - and it sounded even better!

tight fart

2,923 posts

274 months

Thursday 30th August 2018
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Can you imagine end of this season, Vettel leading the championship by 60 points or so going into the last 3 races, then his old engines start failing and he has 3 dnf in them.
The sport would be ridiculed.

HarryFlatters

4,203 posts

213 months

Thursday 30th August 2018
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HustleRussell said:
Of course, I understand that and I don't disagree- however the manufacturers will spend obscene amounts as long as they are able and the cost of the R & D is borne by them. The customers are protected from this cost as the price of the supply contract is limited.

Where I do disagree is one engine per weekend, but it should be more than 0.14.
I read somewhere that in the early 2000s, Toyota used 400 engines in a season. This clearly is unsustainable, and the sport cannot return to that level of spending and waste.

10 of each PU component for a 20-23 race season seems reasonable, however I can't see them increasing numbers to higher than the current level.

thegreenhell

15,404 posts

220 months

Thursday 30th August 2018
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I wonder how many R&D engines they build before arriving at a race spec they're happy to use? I would imagine there are dozens in various stages of build/test/scrap throughout the year.