New engine regs for 2021

New engine regs for 2021

Author
Discussion

Bonefish Blues

26,814 posts

224 months

Friday 3rd November 2017
quotequote all
Otispunkmeyer said:
Doink said:
Ferrari threaten to quit F1 (so whats new) over the engine rules, I'd say off you go then, more money in the pot for the smaller teams, I certainly don't watch F1 because of Ferrari, I watch in the hope of getting good close racing, bit of rubbing and the odd crash, hope LM stand their ground and do what's best for their brand not Ferraris, like Horner said 'here's the rules, here's the entry form, if you don't like it go and do Formula E'

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-02...
Was about to come and post this.... I agree, call their bluff. Let them walk. Certainly not the reason I follow the sport. I wonder also, who or how many others would be up for taking their place if Ferrari did flounce. I suspect there are some who see Ferrari's special treatment and think, nah, not gonna bother. But if they were cut to size or disappeared all together?
They are rather predictable and embarassing, aren't they?

anonymous-user

55 months

Friday 3rd November 2017
quotequote all
Otispunkmeyer said:
Was about to come and post this.... I agree, call their bluff. Let them walk. Certainly not the reason I follow the sport. I wonder also, who or how many others would be up for taking their place if Ferrari did flounce. I suspect there are some who see Ferrari's special treatment and think, nah, not gonna bother. But if they were cut to size or disappeared all together?

If any of the already low number of potentially competitive teams left it would be a major issue.

There's precious little competition at the front of the grid as it is.

C Lee Farquar

4,069 posts

217 months

Friday 3rd November 2017
quotequote all
It will be interesting to see how LM get on negotiating with Marchionne.

He strikes me as a man accustomed to getting his own way.


London424

12,829 posts

176 months

Friday 3rd November 2017
quotequote all
Bonefish Blues said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
Doink said:
Ferrari threaten to quit F1 (so whats new) over the engine rules, I'd say off you go then, more money in the pot for the smaller teams, I certainly don't watch F1 because of Ferrari, I watch in the hope of getting good close racing, bit of rubbing and the odd crash, hope LM stand their ground and do what's best for their brand not Ferraris, like Horner said 'here's the rules, here's the entry form, if you don't like it go and do Formula E'

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-02...
Was about to come and post this.... I agree, call their bluff. Let them walk. Certainly not the reason I follow the sport. I wonder also, who or how many others would be up for taking their place if Ferrari did flounce. I suspect there are some who see Ferrari's special treatment and think, nah, not gonna bother. But if they were cut to size or disappeared all together?
They are rather predictable and embarassing, aren't they?
I'm pretty sure it's all the engine suppliers that aren't happy. They don't want to fork out hundreds of millions again with the risk that one of them will hit the jackpot again while the others spend the next few years and however many more hundreds of millions trying to catch up.

thegreenhell

15,404 posts

220 months

Friday 3rd November 2017
quotequote all
The manufacturers got themselves into this when they lobbied for these engines originally. Then nobody held a gun to them and forced them to spend hundreds of millions on developing the PUs, and nobody is doing that this time. They can walk away at any time if they don't like it.

anonymous-user

55 months

Friday 3rd November 2017
quotequote all
C Lee Farquar said:
It will be interesting to see how LM get on negotiating with Marchionne.

He strikes me as a man accustomed to getting his own way.
Marchionne is a corporate business man with his eye on the bottom line.

Ferrari don't need F1 anymore, the brand is massive on its own and will hit the $1 billion profit mark this year. From a commercial perspective F1 has done its job, it wont affect the brand if they ditched F1 now, but their profits would go up significantly.

If Liberty change the money split to a fairer system, Ferrari F1 are likely to lose $100 million, Marchionne will dump the team when that happens.

Does F1 need Ferrari? Of course not, it survived many well established and supported teams disappearing and could in fact gain from them leaving if the teams get a fairer share and the costs are lowered. The current regime is stopping new teams or manufacturers entering, it has to change or F1 will die.

F1 has been through decades of Ferrari being uncompetitive, before Shuey it was in the doldrums, if they disappeared no one who wants entertaining sport would notice if the racing is good.

Hungrymc

6,674 posts

138 months

Friday 3rd November 2017
quotequote all
They did indeed thegreenhell, which is why they are happy with the current situation and I guess they expected / hoped to get a good 10 years out of the fundamental approach and investment. They won’t want to start again so early in the life of these units,

I suspect even Honda wouldn’t want to start again at this point in their development cycle.

My prediction is that the current PU suppliers will get their way and the whole RB/Aston Martin thing has to limp along for another 5 or more years before a new and more simple PU is introduced.

HustleRussell

24,724 posts

161 months

Friday 3rd November 2017
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Normally I'm all for anything which pisses Ferrari off but on this occasion I agree with them.

Europa1

10,923 posts

189 months

Friday 3rd November 2017
quotequote all
C Lee Farquar said:
It will be interesting to see how LM get on negotiating with Marchionne.

He strikes me as a man accustomed to getting his own way.
Not to mention a natty line in knitwear; he has the casual pullover-over-the-shoulders look nailed. Mind you, he's going to be negotiating with a man whose moustache makes General Melchett look like a rank amateur.

Some Gump

12,705 posts

187 months

Friday 3rd November 2017
quotequote all
Jsf arguing that Ferrari would be more profitable witnout f1.

I'm not so sure. They vet more back from fom than any other. I believe 1/2 their huge budget is covered there. Malbro flaunt the rules and sponsor them via the back door. If you then add in the sales of merhandise directly caused by f1 presence, and the advertising / free coverage they get free by being there, I reckon f1 for Ferrari is near cost neutral.


anonymous-user

55 months

Friday 3rd November 2017
quotequote all
Its difficult to know for sure, but i'd bet they are going to be in a loss position if they lost their extra payments.

As a part of the overall income stream for Ferrari, its tiny now.

rubystone

11,254 posts

260 months

Friday 3rd November 2017
quotequote all
jsf said:
Marchionne is a corporate business man with his eye on the bottom line.

Ferrari don't need F1 anymore, the brand is massive on its own and will hit the $1 billion profit mark this year. From a commercial perspective F1 has done its job, it wont affect the brand if they ditched F1 now, but their profits would go up significantly.

If Liberty change the money split to a fairer system, Ferrari F1 are likely to lose $100 million, Marchionne will dump the team when that happens.

Does F1 need Ferrari? Of course not, it survived many well established and supported teams disappearing and could in fact gain from them leaving if the teams get a fairer share and the costs are lowered. The current regime is stopping new teams or manufacturers entering, it has to change or F1 will die.

F1 has been through decades of Ferrari being uncompetitive, before Shuey it was in the doldrums, if they disappeared no one who wants entertaining sport would notice if the racing is good.
I’ve said before that when I visit my local Ferrari dealer, it isn’t exactly plastered with F1 kit or ads. As you say, they can manage without F1, especially in markets where the cars are bought totally for image purposes. But I’d imagine the markets would deep 6 the share price should they announce a withdrawal from F1.

aeropilot

34,670 posts

228 months

Friday 3rd November 2017
quotequote all
fuelracer496 said:
Doink said:
And is woefully under powered for a 9.3 litre ha ha, it never ceases to amaze me how little the Americans know about engine design, give 9.3 litres to a European or Japanese designer and you'll get 10000hp


I managed to cobble this together, it's quite American in origin, and should make an honest 3200 horsepower and around 2500lbs/ft, from little over 400 cubic inches, with a cam in block, pushrods, OEM valvetrain geometry and a standard helix GMC based 6/71 blower and old-school mechanical fuel injection. I think that's alright for an engine design from the mid 1960's.
417 Donovan...?

Can't beat the small of Nitro in the morning smile


The Moose

22,867 posts

210 months

Friday 3rd November 2017
quotequote all
Hungrymc said:
They did indeed thegreenhell, which is why they are happy with the current situation and I guess they expected / hoped to get a good 10 years out of the fundamental approach and investment. They won’t want to start again so early in the life of these units,

I suspect even Honda wouldn’t want to start again at this point in their development cycle.

My prediction is that the current PU suppliers will get their way and the whole RB/Aston Martin thing has to limp along for another 5 or more years before a new and more simple PU is introduced.
Won’t they have got 10 years out of the design by 2020?? confused

MartG

20,693 posts

205 months

Friday 3rd November 2017
quotequote all
The Moose said:
Hungrymc said:
They did indeed thegreenhell, which is why they are happy with the current situation and I guess they expected / hoped to get a good 10 years out of the fundamental approach and investment. They won’t want to start again so early in the life of these units,

I suspect even Honda wouldn’t want to start again at this point in their development cycle.

My prediction is that the current PU suppliers will get their way and the whole RB/Aston Martin thing has to limp along for another 5 or more years before a new and more simple PU is introduced.
Won’t they have got 10 years out of the design by 2020?? confused
2020 - 2014 = 6 wink

thegreenhell

15,404 posts

220 months

Friday 3rd November 2017
quotequote all
MartG said:
2020 - 2014 = 6 wink
The new regs start in 2021, so it will be 7 years.

rdjohn

6,189 posts

196 months

Saturday 4th November 2017
quotequote all
But it looks like a cost cap could be coming much sooner.

https://nesn.com/2017/11/leaked-details-reveal-f1s...

I bet Force India are very excited given their current thrashing of comparative fat cats like Williams and McLaren.

IMHO this is long overdue, let’s watch genuine racing on a level playing field rather than see $millions thrown at any minor problem.

Robmarriott

2,641 posts

159 months

Saturday 4th November 2017
quotequote all
Is refuelling not an option because of the batteries these days?

Dr Z

3,396 posts

172 months

Saturday 4th November 2017
quotequote all
rdjohn said:
But it looks like a cost cap could be coming much sooner.

https://nesn.com/2017/11/leaked-details-reveal-f1s...
Ah, the elephant in the room has been identified. I'm almost certain that the proposed cost cap regulations are the reason for the latest tantrums by the Ferrari big man, rather than the change in engine regs.

Hungrymc

6,674 posts

138 months

Saturday 4th November 2017
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
MartG said:
2020 - 2014 = 6 wink
The new regs start in 2021, so it will be 7 years.
When would they have to start development in earnest? 2 or 3 years before introduction?