The Official 2017 Brazilian Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Yes there's nothing to dislike in it i feel, I even appreciate the lack of swearing so I can listen to it with the kid in the car. FF1S is another guilty pleasure but is infinitely more sweary (I was called a prick the other week IIRC), in fact I liken it to the PH F1 threads.
Just a shame Trott has managed to ruin the Motorsport Magazine Podcasts.
I agree - there were some really good ones (the Brawn one, Surtees, etc) but the recent ones are terrible.Just a shame Trott has managed to ruin the Motorsport Magazine Podcasts.
Vaud said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Who else can you think of-Mika? Damon?
I think Mika was/is a class act. Jenson too. LaurasOtherHalf said:
Vaud said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Who else can you think of-Mika? Damon?
I think Mika was/is a class act. Jenson too. It's interesting that if you go back over the past 30 years, all those WDCs who we all tend to agree as being nice, affable chaps who raced fairly only ever won one, maybe two championships.
Whereas multiple champions all carry with them some sort of perceived, unlikeable baggage.
I'd suggest the the only multiple (by which I mean more than 2) WDCs where all might agree were worthy, nice and sporting would be Stewart, Clark, Brabham and Fangio. But different times and no internet then either!
Senna started the rot in terms of forcing a redefining of acceptable standards, which has culminated in things like this:
...for which I think Schumacher should have been banned for.
and this...
amongst others.
Whereas multiple champions all carry with them some sort of perceived, unlikeable baggage.
I'd suggest the the only multiple (by which I mean more than 2) WDCs where all might agree were worthy, nice and sporting would be Stewart, Clark, Brabham and Fangio. But different times and no internet then either!
Senna started the rot in terms of forcing a redefining of acceptable standards, which has culminated in things like this:
...for which I think Schumacher should have been banned for.
and this...
amongst others.
We've had few comments on Alonso's drive (and let's not go along the unsportsmanlike road with him) in Brazil. I've been a fan of McLaren since the start of MP4 but the domestic seeming dumping of Ron Dennis put me off them a bit. But they are drawing me back. That was an exciting race to watch for any McL fan.
It brings up the question as to whether opting for Renault is going to be such a good idea. Honda appear to have made great strides in reliability - from an appallingly low level it has to be said - but in the last two races Alonso has done well with the car and it has lasted. All that is needed is a bit more power. I know that's what engines are all about, but he was able to stay with the Merc engined Williams for the whole race. If he'd got ahead, out of DRS anyway, he'd have probably pulled away.
The same criticisms, more or less, could be said for the Renault engine, those with it being told to turn the wick down a bit after their dreadful showing last race.
Wouldn't it be great if Vettel, Hamilton, Verstappen and Alonso were all in for the battle for the win next season.
Another outstanding question: how will Ferrari manage to mess up their battle for second in the WDC? They'll try, we all know that.
And: has LH's engine got another race in it? He must have had it in qually mode for a significant period in the race.
It brings up the question as to whether opting for Renault is going to be such a good idea. Honda appear to have made great strides in reliability - from an appallingly low level it has to be said - but in the last two races Alonso has done well with the car and it has lasted. All that is needed is a bit more power. I know that's what engines are all about, but he was able to stay with the Merc engined Williams for the whole race. If he'd got ahead, out of DRS anyway, he'd have probably pulled away.
The same criticisms, more or less, could be said for the Renault engine, those with it being told to turn the wick down a bit after their dreadful showing last race.
Wouldn't it be great if Vettel, Hamilton, Verstappen and Alonso were all in for the battle for the win next season.
Another outstanding question: how will Ferrari manage to mess up their battle for second in the WDC? They'll try, we all know that.
And: has LH's engine got another race in it? He must have had it in qually mode for a significant period in the race.
StevieBee said:
Senna started the rot in terms of forcing a redefining of acceptable standards, which has culminated in things like this:
<snip>
amongst others.
I heard there was a club race at Brands the other weekend in which, the offender got a 5 sec penalty for doing something like that.<snip>
amongst others.
Dr Z said:
StevieBee said:
Senna started the rot in terms of forcing a redefining of acceptable standards, which has culminated in things like this:
<snip>
amongst others.
I heard there was a club race at Brands the other weekend in which, the offender got a 5 sec penalty for doing something like that.<snip>
amongst others.
It seems SO much less stressful at Merc with Bottas there!
Derek Smith said:
We've had few comments on Alonso's drive (and let's not go along the unsportsmanlike road with him) in Brazil. I've been a fan of McLaren since the start of MP4 but the domestic seeming dumping of Ron Dennis put me off them a bit. But they are drawing me back. That was an exciting race to watch for any McL fan.
It brings up the question as to whether opting for Renault is going to be such a good idea. Honda appear to have made great strides in reliability - from an appallingly low level it has to be said - but in the last two races Alonso has done well with the car and it has lasted. All that is needed is a bit more power. I know that's what engines are all about, but he was able to stay with the Merc engined Williams for the whole race. If he'd got ahead, out of DRS anyway, he'd have probably pulled away.
The same criticisms, more or less, could be said for the Renault engine, those with it being told to turn the wick down a bit after their dreadful showing last race.
Wouldn't it be great if Vettel, Hamilton, Verstappen and Alonso were all in for the battle for the win next season.
Another outstanding question: how will Ferrari manage to mess up their battle for second in the WDC? They'll try, we all know that.
And: has LH's engine got another race in it? He must have had it in qually mode for a significant period in the race.
If you look at grid places lost to engine penalties this season, you have.It brings up the question as to whether opting for Renault is going to be such a good idea. Honda appear to have made great strides in reliability - from an appallingly low level it has to be said - but in the last two races Alonso has done well with the car and it has lasted. All that is needed is a bit more power. I know that's what engines are all about, but he was able to stay with the Merc engined Williams for the whole race. If he'd got ahead, out of DRS anyway, he'd have probably pulled away.
The same criticisms, more or less, could be said for the Renault engine, those with it being told to turn the wick down a bit after their dreadful showing last race.
Wouldn't it be great if Vettel, Hamilton, Verstappen and Alonso were all in for the battle for the win next season.
Another outstanding question: how will Ferrari manage to mess up their battle for second in the WDC? They'll try, we all know that.
And: has LH's engine got another race in it? He must have had it in qually mode for a significant period in the race.
Mercedes = 0
Ferrari = 20
Renault. = 330
Honda. = 355
So while Renaults are spread over 6 cars and Honda just 2, it does not bode well for any Renault engined team with aspirations of winning a championship.
Unless there is a sudden and dramatically improved change, McLaren are destined to be fighting with RB next year, at best, and perhaps Renault will be fighting for that honour also.
Add to that, the implication of reducing to just 3-engines per car and it again looks like a straight fight between Mercedes and Ferrari.
Derek Smith said:
And: has LH's engine got another race in it? He must have had it in qually mode for a significant period in the race.
It should do. He seemed to enjoy a significant top speed benefit to every other car out there. New engine, H-motor & turbo. These are supposed to last for 5 races, Hamilton's engine is barely run in after Brazil. Should be able to run it a lot harder next race too, although Merc engines which were run hard, have blown up before, most notably Bottas @ Barcelona this year. They should have a lot more margin on Hamilton's unit though.
Fairly certain Kimi's engine was turned up a lot in the last few laps too, can even hear it in the revs on some of the onboards. Had to be qualifying levels of attack to fend off Hamilton with a 25 km/h top speed boost on both DRS zones. And good driving by Kimi.
The Moose said:
I can just imagine the Honda being the engine to have next year and the Renault being a piece of s
t. I say this as Alonso seems to have had a doomed career for quite a long time now (from a winning point of view).
Sincerely hope the development converges a lot further than it is now. If they are within 10-15hp of Merc, then the Renault engined cars will have a fighting chance for the title race, just as Ferrari have demonstrated this year.t. I say this as Alonso seems to have had a doomed career for quite a long time now (from a winning point of view).Dr Z said:
Derek Smith said:
And: has LH's engine got another race in it? He must have had it in qually mode for a significant period in the race.
It should do. He seemed to enjoy a significant top speed benefit to every other car out there. New engine, H-motor & turbo. These are supposed to last for 5 races, Hamilton's engine is barely run in after Brazil. Should be able to run it a lot harder next race too, although Merc engines which were run hard, have blown up before, most notably Bottas @ Barcelona this year. They should have a lot more margin on Hamilton's unit though.
Fairly certain Kimi's engine was turned up a lot in the last few laps too, can even hear it in the revs on some of the onboards. Had to be qualifying levels of attack to fend off Hamilton with a 25 km/h top speed boost on both DRS zones. And good driving by Kimi.
The Moose said:
I can just imagine the Honda being the engine to have next year and the Renault being a piece of st. I say this as Alonso seems to have had a doomed career for quite a long time now (from a winning point of view).
Sincerely hope the development converges a lot further than it is now. If they are within 10-15hp of Merc, then the Renault engined cars will have a fighting chance for the title race, just as Ferrari have demonstrated this year.t. I say this as Alonso seems to have had a doomed career for quite a long time now (from a winning point of view).paulguitar said:
I think Rosberg was rather naughty in that incident. Lewis could have backed out of it perhaps, but was rather committed to the move and was probably not expecting Rosberg to make quite such a dramatic swerve.
It seems SO much less stressful at Merc with Bottas there!
Due to Botta's not being fast enough.It seems SO much less stressful at Merc with Bottas there!
If he improves "which I very much doubt" things would start to get tense again.
Derek Smith said:
The same criticisms, more or less, could be said for the Renault engine, those with it being told to turn the wick down a bit after their dreadful showing last race.
Turned down? I wasn't aware of that but I missed a lot of the build up to the race, however Max still managed to beat the lap recordjsf said:
wevster said:
Anyone notice Vettel going over the pit entry line on lap 54? I thought he might have got a penalty for that?
Edited to say I don't think it was all four wheels?
That's the normal racing line there, its not against the rules. Edited to say I don't think it was all four wheels?
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/111599/analysis-...
Villeneuve's thoughts on Bottas.
Valtteri Bottas's performance in the Brazilian Grand Prix was "embarrassing" and the level of a "number two" driver, says 1997 Formula 1 world champion Jacques Villeneuve.
Bottas claimed his third pole of the season at Interlagos but was passed by Sebastian Vettel into the first corner and failed to reclaim the position.
He crossed the line 2.7 seconds adrift of Vettel but only 2.7s ahead of Mercedes team-mate Lewis Hamilton, who started from the pits and came through to fourth.
"It was a great drive from Vettel, he won it at the start," Villeneuve told Autosport. "He was aggressive.
"When you see what the Mercedes was capable of, you just have to look at Lewis and Bottas wasn't up to pace. It's embarrassing for Bottas.
"Lewis finished around three seconds behind him when he started from the pits.
"It's embarrassing. He simply is not on the pace of Hamilton. It's been like that all year. That's his level. Which is a good number two."
Bottas admitted he lost the race by getting a poor start and letting Vettel beat him to the first corner, but felt there had been little to choose between Ferrari and Mercedes on Sunday.
"Pace-wise, it was very, very close," said Bottas, who trails Vettel by 22 points with 25 remaining in the battle for second in the drivers' standings.
"We were trying to put a lot of pressure on Seb and trying to keep up, get close, especially around the pitstop.
"Once I was getting a little bit closer we decided to stop, trying to undercut but it was not quite enough.
"I got pretty close after he came out from the pits but just not quite enough to try to overtake.
"So, yeah, definitely disappointed after a good day on Saturday, and obviously not so good for me on the battle we have for the second place of the championship.
"He's got quite a good lead now so we need some miracles in Abu Dhabi."
Valtteri Bottas's performance in the Brazilian Grand Prix was "embarrassing" and the level of a "number two" driver, says 1997 Formula 1 world champion Jacques Villeneuve.
Bottas claimed his third pole of the season at Interlagos but was passed by Sebastian Vettel into the first corner and failed to reclaim the position.
He crossed the line 2.7 seconds adrift of Vettel but only 2.7s ahead of Mercedes team-mate Lewis Hamilton, who started from the pits and came through to fourth.
"It was a great drive from Vettel, he won it at the start," Villeneuve told Autosport. "He was aggressive.
"When you see what the Mercedes was capable of, you just have to look at Lewis and Bottas wasn't up to pace. It's embarrassing for Bottas.
"Lewis finished around three seconds behind him when he started from the pits.
"It's embarrassing. He simply is not on the pace of Hamilton. It's been like that all year. That's his level. Which is a good number two."
Bottas admitted he lost the race by getting a poor start and letting Vettel beat him to the first corner, but felt there had been little to choose between Ferrari and Mercedes on Sunday.
"Pace-wise, it was very, very close," said Bottas, who trails Vettel by 22 points with 25 remaining in the battle for second in the drivers' standings.
"We were trying to put a lot of pressure on Seb and trying to keep up, get close, especially around the pitstop.
"Once I was getting a little bit closer we decided to stop, trying to undercut but it was not quite enough.
"I got pretty close after he came out from the pits but just not quite enough to try to overtake.
"So, yeah, definitely disappointed after a good day on Saturday, and obviously not so good for me on the battle we have for the second place of the championship.
"He's got quite a good lead now so we need some miracles in Abu Dhabi."
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