The Official 2017 Brazilian Prix Thread **Spoilers**

[Dr Z]

HustleRussell said:

It is speculated elsewhere that Mercedes tried a high rake setup in Brazil, and Niki Lauda has said that the move to high rake doesn't necessitate a much shorter wheelbase which is interesting- I imagined that it would require significant change to the tub, suspension, basically all of the aero etc etc. Perhaps it's not that big a deal after all?

I believe it is a big deal, I suspect the high rake setup tried in Brazil would be to correlate/validate wind tunnel models.

I believe Force India have a car that's almost as long as the Merc but also have a higher rake but they started this journey a few years ago, so they have lots models & data to correlate with, and the understanding of the philosophy before they started on the 2017 car. Ditto RBR, Ferrari & McLaren. Merc would need to start from scratch.

To have everything working dynamically well, different suspension behaviour, to map out all the types of conditions the aero platform will see over the course of a race/season, plus the tyres are going to be 'softer', no shark fin & t-wings to help the rear wing flow...hats off to them if they are on race winning pace from race 1 of 2018.

I suspect sorting the suspension would be the easier part in all of this. Big man Aldo Costa is still around, isn't he?

[HustleRussell]

Dr Z said:

HustleRussell said:

It is speculated elsewhere that Mercedes tried a high rake setup in Brazil, and Niki Lauda has said that the move to high rake doesn't necessitate a much shorter wheelbase which is interesting- I imagined that it would require significant change to the tub, suspension, basically all of the aero etc etc. Perhaps it's not that big a deal after all?

I believe it is a big deal, I suspect the high rake setup tried in Brazil would be to correlate/validate wind tunnel models.

I believe Force India have a car that's almost as long as the Merc but also have a higher rake but they started this journey a few years ago, so they have lots models & data to correlate with, and the understanding of the philosophy before they started on the 2017 car. Ditto RBR, Ferrari & McLaren. Merc would need to start from scratch.

To have everything working dynamically well, different suspension behaviour, to map out all the types of conditions the aero platform will see over the course of a race/season, plus the tyres are going to be 'softer'...hats off to them if they are on race winning pace from race 1 of 2018.

I suspect sorting the suspension would be the easier part in all of this. Big man Aldo Costa is still around, isn't he?

If anything I learned while fiddling with the rake on my Caterham this season is in any way transferrable to F1 (hehe), the extra rake could wreak havoc with rear tyre management unless they are able to generate the extra downforce to balance that from the off. A tall order- and so little testing to verify it. Seems unlikely they'll start next season with a well-balanced and consistent car. Of course a superior 2018 PU to the competition might compensate for an unspectacular handling chassis as the 2017 one did this year.

[rdjohn]

While the T-wings are going, I thought the fins were being retained for numbers, name and sponsor space requirements.

I do not expect Mercedes will be seriously troubled building a winning car for next year. Engine life will probably the the Achilles heel of the other engine builders next year.

Over the full 2018 season, I anticipate that Mercedes will probably be an easy WCC winner, again. But hopefully they will be kept honest by RB and Ferrari at circuits that are less favourable to them.

[Dr Z]

HustleRussell said:

If anything I learned while fiddling with the rake on my Caterham this season is in any way transferrable to F1 (hehe), the extra rake could wreak havoc with rear tyre management unless they are able to generate the extra downforce to balance that from the off. A tall order- and so little testing to verify it. Seems unlikely they'll start next season with a well-balanced and consistent car. Of course a superior 2018 PU to the competition might compensate for an unspectacular handling chassis as the 2017 one did this year.

That pesky PU seems to bail them out every time! Damn it.

rdjohn said:

While the T-wings are going, I thought the fins were being retained for numbers, name and sponsor space requirements.

Shark fins are in limbo as they have been vetoed by McLaren.

rdjohn said:

Over the full 2018 season, I anticipate that Mercedes will probably be an easy WCC winner, again.

Depressing. Why don't they let someone else have a go!

[RichB]

Dr Z said:

Depressing. Why don't they let someone else have a go!

As Christian Horner famously said when Red Bull were all conquering, it's up to the others to raise their game. In fairness Red Bull are trying while Ferrari as making a hash of it. All good fun. As I support Williams as a team and British drivers generally I hope Mercedes continue their supremacy. There have been some good races this season so I look forward to next.

[rdjohn]

rdjohn said:

While the T-wings are going, I thought the fins were being retained for numbers, name and sponsor space requirements.

I do not expect Mercedes will be seriously troubled building a winning car for next year. Engine life will probably the the Achilles heel of the other engine builders next year.

Over the full 2018 season, I anticipate that Mercedes will probably be an easy WCC winner, again. But hopefully they will be kept honest by RB and Ferrari at circuits that are less favourable to them.

Yet another prediction I got completely wrong. They are going.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/shark-fins-gone...

[RichB]

rdjohn said:

rdjohn said:

While the T-wings are going, I thought the fins were being retained for numbers, name and sponsor space requirements.

I do not expect Mercedes will be seriously troubled building a winning car for next year. Engine life will probably the the Achilles heel of the other engine builders next year.

Over the full 2018 season, I anticipate that Mercedes will probably be an easy WCC winner, again. But hopefully they will be kept honest by RB and Ferrari at circuits that are less favourable to them.

Yet another prediction I got completely wrong. They are going.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/shark-fins-gone...

Horner made me laugh when he said "all the team thought they were fine and the Ferrari said they don't want them, so they're out."

[Derek Smith]

RichB said:

orner made me laugh when he said "all the team thought they were fine and the Ferrari said they don't want them, so they're out."

Subtlety is not his strong suit, is it.

[cuprabob]

Derek Smith said:

Subtlety is not his strong suit, is it.

To be fair he was trying to be by saying a "leading team" but a Mercedes was on the screen at the time and Ben Edwards jumped to the wrong conclusion so Horner had to correct him

[RichB]

cuprabob said:

Derek Smith said:

Subtlety is not his strong suit, is it.

To be fair he was trying to be by saying a "leading team" but a Mercedes was on the screen at the time and Ben Edwards jumped to the wrong conclusion so Horner had to correct him

Not sure you're talking about the same clip. He said "Ferrari didn't want the shark fin so we've not got them." (and he wasn't talking to Ben Edwards).

[cuprabob]

RichB said:

Not sure you're talking about the same clip. He said "Ferrari didn't want the shark fin so we've not got them." (and he wasn't talking to Ben Edwards).

On the CH4 coverage Horner joined them from the pit wall during the session and Ben Edwards asked the question about the fins.

Sounds as if we're talking about different interviews about the same thing

[DanielSan]

Derek Smith said:

Subtlety is not his strong suit, is it.

It’s nice to see that from a team principal imo, it’s a million times better than bloody Ron speak that we suffered for so long or Flávio sprouting utter gibberish in a bid to avoid answering a question.

[RichB]

cuprabob said:

RichB said:

Not sure you're talking about the same clip. He said "Ferrari didn't want the shark fin so we've not got them." (and he wasn't talking to Ben Edwards).

On the CH4 coverage Horner joined them from the pit wall during the session and Ben Edwards asked the question about the fins.

Sounds as if we're talking about different interviews about the same thing

I was watching Sky

[HustleRussell]

I thought it was McLaren who wanted rid of the shark fins