ex-Senna McLaren coming up for auction

[anonymous-user]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Sorry but that livery is atrocious.

Honestly???

[LaurasOtherHalf]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Sorry but that livery is atrocious.

Honestly???

Yes, I understand the deletion of the Marlboro typescript but the rounding off of the chevrons is inexcusable.

[anonymous-user]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Exactly.

You could follow the car in front and even be able to not lose downforce.

The simple things make better racing. If only the FIA would.........

You couldn't, the simple winged cars suffer from understeer when behind another car.

[Insurancejon]

Zak's collection lives in the united auto sports unit in garforth near Leeds

Handily listed here on their website.....and his is an MP4 6

https://www.unitedautosports.com/historic-motorspo...

[tight fart]

Do we think it will sell for more than Paul Newmans watch?
($17.8 million)

[thegreenhell]

Senna's 1984 Toleman has now been added to the auction

http://www.bonhams.com/press_release/25745/

[anonymous-user]

thegreenhell said:

Senna's 1984 Toleman has now been added to the auction

http://www.bonhams.com/press_release/25745/

Is this the same one that sold a year or two ago??

[Thundersports]

There are two Tolemans out there claiming the same history. There's a thread on another forum which discussed the cars.
And here https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=11...

Edited by Thundersports on Thursday 15th March 21:20

[carl_w]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Yes, I understand the deletion of the Marlboro typescript but the rounding off of the chevrons is inexcusable.

I'm not sure I understand the deletion of the Marlboro typescript. If that's how it ran in period, that's how it should be presented now.

[F1GTRUeno]

carl_w said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Yes, I understand the deletion of the Marlboro typescript but the rounding off of the chevrons is inexcusable.

I'm not sure I understand the deletion of the Marlboro typescript. If that's how it ran in period, that's how it should be presented now.

Sponsorship agreements

McLaren no longer have a deal with Philip Morris International so they can't have the word Marlboro (nor West for later cars) on their cars.

Sadly why we get older F1 cars dolled up in current liveries rather than period correct liveries at GFOS and other demonstrations too.

I suspect there's some legal wrangling to do with the tobacco advertising bans affecting companies versus private owners too.

[Appleby]

F1GTRUeno said:

I suspect there's some legal wrangling to do with the tobacco advertising bans affecting companies versus private owners too.

I believe you are correct with this. It was the same with the recent coverage of the testing on the BBC. Even when the were showing tweets of previous races/events they had blurred out all tobacco advertising. The JPS lotus you could barely see that car!

[Vocal Minority]

I believe the rule is that if it ran in whatever country it is in with tobacco sponsorship in period, it can stay

If it didn’t - you can’t retrofit.

I think.....

[dr_gn]

Insurancejon said:

Zak's collection lives in the united auto sports unit in garforth near Leeds

Handily listed here on their website.....and his is an MP4 6

https://www.unitedautosports.com/historic-motorspo...

The MP4/6 isn’t there. Don’t think its ever left Woking. I asked for some reference pictures recently for a model I’m building. No idea why it’s listed as a United Autosports car. Maybe they’re owned (somehow) by UAS, but are kept at McLaren?

[ralphrj]

dr_gn said:

Insurancejon said:

Zak's collection lives in the united auto sports unit in garforth near Leeds

Handily listed here on their website.....and his is an MP4 6

https://www.unitedautosports.com/historic-motorspo...

The MP4/6 isn’t there. Don’t think its ever left Woking. I asked for some reference pictures recently for a model I’m building. No idea why it’s listed as a United Autosports car. Maybe they’re owned (somehow) by UAS, but are kept at McLaren?

I don't think that all of the cars on the United Autosports website are owned by Zak Brown. The website only claims that the cars featured have been "restored and maintained" by them, something that they could have been commissioned to do by another owner (even McLaren if they were too busy to do it themselves).

The Zak Brown website (zakbrown.com) has a similar, but not identical list of cars, but that site does claim that they are owned by him. The MP4-16 appears on that site but the MP4/6 does not.

The collection on the Zak Brown website includes the Toleman TG-184 that Senna drove at Monaco in 1984. However, that does not mean that it is the same car in the upcoming auction - as thundersports posted earlier on the thread there are 2 different Tolemans claiming to be the car that Senna drove at Monaco.

[anonymous-user]

Vocal Minority said:

I believe the rule is that if it ran in whatever country it is in with tobacco sponsorship in period, it can stay

If it didn’t - you can’t retrofit.

I think.....

Nope.

Historic F1 cars have to run in the livery they ran with in period. The car won't be issued with FIA HTP papers unless it is using the correct livery.

The Shadow I run has tobacco sponsorship as part of its livery and runs with that at every event except one, where the event rules specify no tobacco livery can be used.

[F1GTRUeno]

Was reading up and apparently it was Aaron Hsu who had the collection in the US originally?

I knew he had one of the Gulf F1 GTR's (#12R) and once upon a time he had a FINA longtail GTR too. Not a stretch to imagine he might've had a few F1 cars too through that sort of connection.

[thegreenhell]

Sold to Bernie Ecclestone. After the buyer’s premium was added, the final price paid by Ecclestone was €4,197,500.

[anonymous-user]

thegreenhell said:

Sold to Bernie Ecclestone. After the buyer’s premium was added, the final price paid by Ecclestone was €4,197,500.

He is a smart cookie. Will only increase in price.

But money make money and he has plenty of that

[carl_w]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

He is a smart cookie. Will only increase in price.

But money make money and he has plenty of that

Once a used car dealer, always a used car dealer

[The Hypno-Toad]

thegreenhell said:

Sold to Bernie Ecclestone. After the buyer’s premium was added, the final price paid by Ecclestone was €4,197,500.

That sounds like a bargain to me, I'm staggered it wasn't in the tens.

Still. What do I know but maybe it shows that there aren't so many people out there interested in these cars as we might imagine.