F1 only pay for view (not free to air)

[Derek Smith]

Gaz. said:

You think WEC will be on terrestrial TV with loads of people watching and discussing it with friends or on here? I think you're in for a shock.

You miss the point. If my friends watch WEC, Le Mans, GT and the rest, then we'll be able to chat about things.

jsf said:

WEC is at a crossroads moment, only 1 works team in LMP1 this year. Its pretty dull to watch even with more than 1 works team.

I assume your not suggesting that F1 isn't at a crossroads as well, at least for UK viewers.

LMP1 is but one formula that races in WEC. Plenty more where that came from.

I'll be at historic events, such as Silverstone Classic and Goodwood FoS as normal, and maybe Revival, and will wander along to Brands Historic, and lots of historic sports car racing of course. I've chatted to entrants, drivers, and others in the paddock and on occasion in the pits. I've also got an in or two.

I'm keen on motor racing and will, as last year, go to a number of events this. I'm wondering if I'll miss F1. I expect I will, but I'll also enjoy a lot of motor racing, both live and on TV.

I came into motor sport via international sports car racing and moved to F1 after the 1966 British, my first GP. What thrilled me then no longer exists, and hasn't for some years. At least it is noisy.

[anonymous-user]

Derek Smith said:

I assume your not suggesting that F1 isn't at a crossroads as well, at least for UK viewers.

LMP1 is but one formula that races in WEC. Plenty more where that came from.

I'll be at historic events, such as Silverstone Classic and Goodwood FoS as normal, and maybe Revival, and will wander along to Brands Historic, and lots of historic sports car racing of course. I've chatted to entrants, drivers, and others in the paddock and on occasion in the pits. I've also got an in or two.

I'm keen on motor racing and will, as last year, go to a number of events this. I'm wondering if I'll miss F1. I expect I will, but I'll also enjoy a lot of motor racing, both live and on TV.

I came into motor sport via international sports car racing and moved to F1 after the 1966 British, my first GP. What thrilled me then no longer exists, and hasn't for some years. At least it is noisy.

Different type of crossroads Derek, the loss of the works teams in WEC is a major blow. LMP2 or a watered down tech spec LMP1 will no doubt follow.

Watching WEC has always been a different type of spectator experience due to the nature of the race lengths, its almost a different sport to F1. Seems to attract a different type of spectator and doesn't have the appeal of F1 for the average TV watcher who can manage a 2 hour veg in front of the TV.

I'm usually working at all those historic events, we may have even chatted in the past. Always nice to chat with enthusiasts about the cars i run when i'm not flat out.

[Derek Smith]

jsf said:

Different type of crossroads Derek, the loss of the works teams in WEC is a major blow. LMP2 or a watered down tech spec LMP1 will no doubt follow.

Watching WEC has always been a different type of spectator experience due to the nature of the race lengths, its almost a different sport to F1. Seems to attract a different type of spectator and doesn't have the appeal of F1 for the average TV watcher who can manage a 2 hour veg in front of the TV.

I'm usually working at all those historic events, we may have even chatted in the past. Always nice to chat with enthusiasts about the cars i run when i'm not flat out.

You never know. I've found the crews of historic cars only too happy to answer question of those who are ignorant. What type do you prepare?

I did a little video of those fettling at the Silverstone Classic 2017:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ntiztwvzss&t=...

In 2016 I was a guest of a company which prepares classics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T-dRz6pcLo

Historic sports cars were queuing to go on the circuit and I was chatting to a bloke by a Tojeiro Buick. It's got a similar engine to the Rover V8. I told the chap I'd written a book on the RV8 and he offered to open the bonnet. Another chap apologised and said that they'd be moving in a second. You could see the first bloke trying to work out if he'd got time to show me the engine.

I get what you mean by different types of spectator, at least nowadays. You get more nerds at WEC.

[Derek Smith]

jsf said:

. . . the loss of the works teams in WEC is a major blow. LMP2 or a watered down tech spec LMP1 will no doubt follow.

I accept that Oreca, Dallara, and Ginetta - who reckon that they've sold a number of cars, one or more to Manor - are something of a drop in quality and will struggle to stay with the Toyotas, but they might fight amongst themselves. I'm a Ginetta fan, I've owned two, so will watch them with interest. But then there are big changes coming for 2020 that might bring in manufacturers. Maybe Merc. So hope for the future. It'll be interesting.

I know it won't be F1.

[anonymous-user]

Derek Smith said:

You never know. I've found the crews of historic cars only too happy to answer question of those who are ignorant. What type do you prepare?

I did a little video of those fettling at the Silverstone Classic 2017:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ntiztwvzss&t=...

In 2016 I was a guest of a company which prepares classics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T-dRz6pcLo

Historic sports cars were queuing to go on the circuit and I was chatting to a bloke by a Tojeiro Buick. It's got a similar engine to the Rover V8. I told the chap I'd written a book on the RV8 and he offered to open the bonnet. Another chap apologised and said that they'd be moving in a second. You could see the first bloke trying to work out if he'd got time to show me the engine.

I get what you mean by different types of spectator, at least nowadays. You get more nerds at WEC.

I'm in both those videos Derek. I mainly work on F1 these days but have worked on pretty much any type of historic car over the years, I've race prepped some of the most successful McLaren CanAm cars for years prior to moving mainly to F1.

I built the Tyrrell 011 and the Shadow DN8 at the start of the 2017 video, that's me doing a ratio change on the Shadow in the background when you filmed the Tyrrell and Chevron B8. The Tyrrell won the championship in 2015 in flat bottom 1983 spec, over 2016 we converted it to 1982 ground effect spec and Silverstone was its third time run in that config, unfortunately the program was cut short because the driver broke his had when another F1 car ran up the back of it at Brands Hatch, launched over the car and landed on the front wheel, which spun the steering so quickly the thumb was broken. That cost me a months work stripping and crack testing everything. Only damage was a bent steering arm, amazing really.

The company you were a guest with in 2016, i worked there for the first 5 years of that company being set up, i worked on almost all the cars you saw with them. I left to set up a new F1 workshop to run the Tyrrell and Shadow.

So long as my health allows me, i should be back there this year, so if you do come let me know, i'd be happy to show you in detail around the F1 cars and some of our other kit like the T70, GT40 and Cobra.

I wasn't aware you did anything with the Rover V8 engine, back in the 90's i worked with Ian Richardson and built the first Wildcat Engineering Rover V8 engine to feature his new cylinder head design with my mate Simon for his Esprit, i hand ported the first prototype heads. The combustion chamber design in those was based on the GT40 Gurney Weslake head, Ian was on that engine program with Weslake and JWA. The second prototype went in the Morgan GT car that raced at Le Mans, the third went into the MG EX255 land speed record car that Andy Green drove, that one was supposed to run with twin centrifugal superchargers, but they were going supersonic, so they converted it to twin turbo. I stripped my engine of its NA induction assembly so they could run the engine in on the dyno whilst they fabricated the turbo installation. We built 2 wildcat prototypes for the Esprit, first was a 5.0 litre, then a 6.0 litre, both using special blocks.

From memory the MG EX255 engine produced 947BHP on the dyno before being shipped to Boneville.

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 4th March 01:12

[rovermorris999]

Very interesting stuff Jsf, thanks for taking the time to post, fascinating reminiscences.

[Derek Smith]

jsf said:

I'm in both those videos Derek. I mainly work on F1 these days but have worked on pretty much any type of historic car over the years, I've race prepped some of the most successful McLaren CanAm cars for years prior to moving mainly to F1.

I built the Tyrrell 011 and the Shadow DN8 at the start of the 2017 video, that's me doing a ratio change on the Shadow in the background when you filmed the Tyrrell and Chevron B8. The Tyrrell won the championship in 2015 in flat bottom 1983 spec, over 2016 we converted it to 1982 ground effect spec and Silverstone was its third time run in that config, unfortunately the program was cut short because the driver broke his had when another F1 car ran up the back of it at Brands Hatch, launched over the car and landed on the front wheel, which spun the steering so quickly the thumb was broken. That cost me a months work stripping and crack testing everything. Only damage was a bent steering arm, amazing really.

The company you were a guest with in 2016, i worked there for the first 5 years of that company being set up, i worked on almost all the cars you saw with them. I left to set up a new F1 workshop to run the Tyrrell and Shadow.

So long as my health allows me, i should be back there this year, so if you do come let me know, i'd be happy to show you in detail around the F1 cars and some of our other kit like the T70, GT40 and Cobra.

I wasn't aware you did anything with the Rover V8 engine, back in the 90's i worked with Ian Richardson and built the first Wildcat Engineering Rover V8 engine to feature his new cylinder head design with my mate Simon for his Esprit, i hand ported the first prototype heads. The combustion chamber design in those was based on the GT40 Gurney Weslake head, Ian was on that engine program with Weslake and JWA. The second prototype went in the Morgan GT car that raced at Le Mans, the third went into the MG EX255 land speed record car that Andy Green drove, that one was supposed to run with twin centrifugal superchargers, but they were going supersonic, so they converted it to twin turbo. I stripped my engine of its NA induction assembly so they could run the engine in on the dyno whilst they fabricated the turbo installation. We built 2 wildcat prototypes for the Esprit, first was a 5.0 litre, then a 6.0 litre, both using special blocks.

From memory the MG EX255 engine produced 947BHP on the dyno before being shipped to Boneville.

Thanks for that. Would you consent to being interviewed for my book? I'm bringing out a new edition, moving away from TVR alone and going onto other cars it graced. I'll send you a PM with a link to my website page about it.

Fascinating on the EX255. I'd love to hear more about that.

The first couple of times I went to Silverstone Classic I saw visitors just like me talking to the mechanics and I thought that was the last thing they wanted. So I wandered around mute. One year I saw a car I didn't recognise which looked interesting and, after apologising profusely for bothering him, asked the mechanic about it. In the end there were three of them talking to me.

All of a sudden I realised they were just as, or more, keen as us.

It's a real nice crowd, and on both 'sides'.

[anonymous-user]

Derek Smith said:

Thanks for that. Would you consent to being interviewed for my book? I'm bringing out a new edition, moving away from TVR alone and going onto other cars it graced. I'll send you a PM with a link to my website page about it.

Fascinating on the EX255. I'd love to hear more about that.

The first couple of times I went to Silverstone Classic I saw visitors just like me talking to the mechanics and I thought that was the last thing they wanted. So I wandered around mute. One year I saw a car I didn't recognise which looked interesting and, after apologising profusely for bothering him, asked the mechanic about it. In the end there were three of them talking to me.

All of a sudden I realised they were just as, or more, keen as us.

It's a real nice crowd, and on both 'sides'.

Pleasure rover.

I'd be happy to Derek, it's 20 years ago now so I've forgotten a lot of the detail, but if it adds to the info then no problem.

There is a book being written at the moment just on the wildcat engines which I've been interviewed for, not sure when that will be out though.

You can have a look at the 5.0 and 6.0 engine builds by going to Simons website http://www.espritv8.net/espritv8_023.htm
These prototypes took an age to build because we were doing them in our spare time and we had to drive to north wales where Ian has his workshop to do a lot of the initial prototype machining. The 5 litre used a modified production block, the 6 litre came out of the EX255 project, to produce a block to handle 1000BHP Rover cast a set of blocks with modifications advised by Ian. The EX255 was a 4.7 litre version, we put 4.0" bore liners in it to make it 6 litre.

There was a TVR in New Zealand that was also used to develop the engine, using the prototype stage 2 heads and a pretty wild roller cam setup, that made big power and won a lot of races. Pistonheads did a feature on the car in 2004 https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=74...

That feature was when it had the 4.8 litre engine, Carl then built a 5.8 litre version similar to the 6.0 litre we built, that produced 747BHP. The thing that held back our engine was the camshaft design, it was still on a pretty mild cam, it would have produced a lot more power with Carls cam setup.

Getting back to the historics, it's such a hard way to earn a living, you really have to be an enthusiast to do the job. You'll find most people are more than happy to have a chat about the cars so long as they aren't flat out doing prep work for the next run. Some of the events have seriously tight turnaround times between sessions by the time the car is released from Parke Ferme, so it can be a bit hectic. But if it looks all under control then don't be afraid to chat to people, its one of the nice aspects of the job for me. You do get the odd anorak that tells you nonsense they have read is gospel when we know they haven't a clue and they are regurgitating something they read that was wrong (don't trust books as gospel). I always enjoy rebuilding genuine period cars that have been stored since they last raced, you find all sorts of weird and wonderful things that were never documented.

My favourites are the P34 6 wheel Tyrrell that sat in the Donington Collection for decades, the Gulf Mirage GR8 (i found a false brake light switch on the dash, so the drivers could fool the driver behind they were hitting the brakes when they were still on the throttle , the fuel system design was very clever too) and the Tyrrell 011 in your video. That went straight from Tyrrell to Nick Mason who did nothing to it, then to us. Jackie Stewarts March 701 from 1970 was an interesting one too, we were restoring that and the Chris Amon works car at the same time, so March 701-1 and 701-2. The mods Tyrrell did to Jackies car you wouldn't see unless you knew what you were looking at, they had different rear suspension geometry that improved rear bumsteer control and anti squat, different front wing shape, different ARB pickup points and a steering rack damper similar to an anti-shake damper you see on modern superbikes. Clever guys those Tyrrell mechanics.

[Derek Smith]

jsf said:

Pleasure rover.

I'd be happy to Derek, it's 20 years ago now so I've forgotten a lot of the detail, but if it adds to the info then no problem.

There is a book being written at the moment just on the wildcat engines which I've been interviewed for, not sure when that will be out though.

You can have a look at the 5.0 and 6.0 engine builds by going to Simons website http://www.espritv8.net/espritv8_023.htm
These prototypes took an age to build because we were doing them in our spare time and we had to drive to north wales where Ian has his workshop to do a lot of the initial prototype machining. The 5 litre used a modified production block, the 6 litre came out of the EX255 project, to produce a block to handle 1000BHP Rover cast a set of blocks with modifications advised by Ian. The EX255 was a 4.7 litre version, we put 4.0" bore liners in it to make it 6 litre.

There was a TVR in New Zealand that was also used to develop the engine, using the prototype stage 2 heads and a pretty wild roller cam setup, that made big power and won a lot of races. Pistonheads did a feature on the car in 2004 https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=74...

That feature was when it had the 4.8 litre engine, Carl then built a 5.8 litre version similar to the 6.0 litre we built, that produced 747BHP. The thing that held back our engine was the camshaft design, it was still on a pretty mild cam, it would have produced a lot more power with Carls cam setup.

Getting back to the historics, it's such a hard way to earn a living, you really have to be an enthusiast to do the job. You'll find most people are more than happy to have a chat about the cars so long as they aren't flat out doing prep work for the next run. Some of the events have seriously tight turnaround times between sessions by the time the car is released from Parke Ferme, so it can be a bit hectic. But if it looks all under control then don't be afraid to chat to people, its one of the nice aspects of the job for me. You do get the odd anorak that tells you nonsense they have read is gospel when we know they haven't a clue and they are regurgitating something they read that was wrong (don't trust books as gospel). I always enjoy rebuilding genuine period cars that have been stored since they last raced, you find all sorts of weird and wonderful things that were never documented.

My favourites are the P34 6 wheel Tyrrell that sat in the Donington Collection for decades, the Gulf Mirage GR8 (i found a false brake light switch on the dash, so the drivers could fool the driver behind they were hitting the brakes when they were still on the throttle , the fuel system design was very clever too) and the Tyrrell 011 in your video. That went straight from Tyrrell to Nick Mason who did nothing to it, then to us. Jackie Stewarts March 701 from 1970 was an interesting one too, we were restoring that and the Chris Amon works car at the same time, so March 701-1 and 701-2. The mods Tyrrell did to Jackies car you wouldn't see unless you knew what you were looking at, they had different rear suspension geometry that improved rear bumsteer control and anti squat, different front wing shape, different ARB pickup points and a steering rack damper similar to an anti-shake damper you see on modern superbikes. Clever guys those Tyrrell mechanics.

I'll have to buy you a beer or two.

Fascinating. I'll be in touch.

There was one driver, Aussie I think, who went the other way with brake lights, having a switch to disconnect them in order not to give out to much info. He carried on with the deception by making out he didn't brake for the corners just to make the other drivers think they were also rans.

Cheers.

[anonymous-user]

I think that's an old wives tale Derek, it would be very dangerous for a driver to brake hard with the driver behind thinking they are still on the throttle. The GR8 i restored with the false brake light switch finished 3rd at Le Mans, its sister car won the race. I managed to get the setup sheet for the car from John Horsman, who ran the team at Le Mans for Gulf racing, that was really cool to have whilst doing a restore as i normally have to work everything out from scratch.

Interesting thing on that car is although a British built car, it had a lot of Metric joints and bolts on it. The reason for that is they used all the old stock from the Porsche 917 the team used to run as a basis for the build. Metric joints are crap, the thread pitch is too big to allow easy adjustment, which is why even now most rod end joints use imperial thread sizes.

The nicest adjustment pitch I've worked on was one of Jacques Villeneuve's Ferrari's, Ferrari had their own thread pitch which was very fine. The detail engineering on that period Ferrari really is special compared to the garagistas, it must have cost a fortune to build. The brits came up with a way around that by using a clever turn buckle arrangement, that's used on the Tyrrell 011.

[DaveE36]

I've found this deal. £150 for 9 months of Sky Sports. NowTV let's 2 devices stream at once so you can share with a mate. Open to new and existing customers.

https://www.nowtv.com/promo/formula1pass?DCMP=afc-...

[2fast748]

2fast748 said:

I've just set wheels in motion to cancel my Sky TV subscription, was thinking about it for a while but the email this week saying it's going up £2.50 was the final straw. I love Formula 1 but costs have to be made in my house and pay TV is the easiest big saving. I have a NowTV capable box so will just use that for any live races I have the time to watch.

An update. I spoke to Sky and they offered £10 off per month so I said no thanks. Cheapest package they offered with F1 was £34 per month.

[MissChief]

Although not ideal, you can get the F1 channel for £18pm and get the HD add-on for free for a year. At a retail stand you'll likely get half price entertainment, then add the £18 for F1, £28pm.

[rscott]

I see NowTv are offering a deal for 9 months Sky Sports - £150. https://www.nowtv.com/watch-f1-online

[satans worm]

Does anyone know who the anchors will be for F1 streaming?

I live in the US and would consider it, as long as they are nothing like the current team, who are always from a studio, wearing over sized suits with a really old guy who i believe was in F1 at some point.

I just looked on the website and its still pretty vague giving the close timing for the first race?

[Munter]

satans worm said:

Does anyone know who the anchors will be for F1 streaming?

I live in the US and would consider it, as long as they are nothing like the current team, who are always from a studio, wearing over sized suits with a really old guy who i believe was in F1 at some point.

I just looked on the website and its still pretty vague giving the close timing for the first race?

I thought they already said it was the sky team.

[anonymous-user]

Munter said:

I thought they already said it was the sky team.

Thats the case for the USA normal TV coverage.

[Munter]

jsf said:

Munter said:

I thought they already said it was the sky team.

Thats the case for the USA normal TV coverage.

Ah right, that's probably what I remember being announced.

[thegreenhell]

That could possibly be a way for Liberty to get their OTT service into the UK before 2025 if they took the Sky commentary. Sky would likely be more willing to renegotiate their exclusive contract if they could sell their production back to Liberty for wider distribution.

[rscott]

thegreenhell said:

That could possibly be a way for Liberty to get their OTT service into the UK before 2025 if they took the Sky commentary. Sky would likely be more willing to renegotiate their exclusive contract if they could sell their production back to Liberty for wider distribution.

Another option would have been for Liberty to use Sky's streaming platform to power their service. It's already a pan-European platform..