2018 Pre-Season Thread
Discussion
A year of Merc winning most of the races again is not going to be good viewing. I already know how that will go, wouldn't want to subject myself to that lot. I'll give it the first few races.
Wanting to see what Alonso could do in that McLaren is about the only thing keeping my interest in this season, to be honest.
Wanting to see what Alonso could do in that McLaren is about the only thing keeping my interest in this season, to be honest.
Dr Z said:
Wanting to see what Alonso could do in that McLaren is about the only thing keeping my interest in this season, to be honest.
Really? A Prima Dona who’s caused trouble wherever he’s gone, was involved in arguably two of the biggest scandals the sport has ever seen in a team that is so self centred they managed to bin off their creator and leader?Thats the only thing holding your interest before a wheel has even turned?
Not interested in BOT taking it to HAM after a season to learn the car, whether Ferreri can build on last season, how RIC and VST get on in a Red Bull and whether they can get to the front while staying reliable? Fireworks between the two Force India drivers now they’re not in a championship no mans land and fighting the midfield? Whether team Renault will play dirty against any of their supplier teams again if they’re tight on points?
In case you can’t tell, I can’t bloody wait
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Really? A Prima Dona who’s caused trouble wherever he’s gone, was involved in arguably two of the biggest scandals the sport has ever seen in a team that is so self centred they managed to bin off their creator and leader?
Good, good. Let the hate flow through you! 
Seems you've answered your own question, the guy is box office in the car or outside it. With this car, he's going to hunt down those podiums.
OK, maybe also to see what the RB drivers can do with a car that could be inferior in 1-lap pace. Maybe, the first few races will show that this season is not going to be a Merc walkover.
Kraken said:
I thought we were talking about Alonso not Hamilton? :P
The Prima Donna was created when Alonso raced Hamilton in his rookie year.It cost McLaren $100million, Alonso his seat, and created the legend that became the multi-millionaire, 4-times World Champion. It is unusual for a guy of his talent to shoot himself in both feet.
However, I still want Fernando to pull off some amazing starts and occasionally be in the mix. He is still an incredible driver.
rdjohn said:
Kraken said:
I thought we were talking about Alonso not Hamilton? :P
The Prima Donna was created when Alonso raced Hamilton in his rookie year.It cost McLaren $100million, Alonso his seat, and created the legend that became the multi-millionaire, 4-times World Champion. It is unusual for a guy of his talent to shoot himself in both feet.
However, I still want Fernando to pull off some amazing starts and occasionally be in the mix. He is still an incredible driver.
HTP99 said:
Makes you wonder how things would have turned out if Alonso hadn't had got the strop on.
My feeling is that he'd have done something equally stupid later in his career.I doubt he would have stayed with McL in any case as I doubt they would have let LH go.
McL would have had more money to invest but I'm sure there would still have been a target on Dennis' back.
If Alonso's demand for number 1 status was allowed then LH would have left for another team. Drivers like him are always picked up. Whether he would have got to Merc eventually is another matter. Perhaps Ferrari?
Things tend to work themselves out I find.
Derek Smith said:
My feeling is that he'd have done something equally stupid later in his career.
I doubt he would have stayed with McL in any case as I doubt they would have let LH go.
McL would have had more money to invest but I'm sure there would still have been a target on Dennis' back.
If Alonso's demand for number 1 status was allowed then LH would have left for another team. Drivers like him are always picked up. Whether he would have got to Merc eventually is another matter. Perhaps Ferrari?
Things tend to work themselves out I find.
I have to laugh at everyone having a go at Alonso for the number one status in a team.I doubt he would have stayed with McL in any case as I doubt they would have let LH go.
McL would have had more money to invest but I'm sure there would still have been a target on Dennis' back.
If Alonso's demand for number 1 status was allowed then LH would have left for another team. Drivers like him are always picked up. Whether he would have got to Merc eventually is another matter. Perhaps Ferrari?
Things tend to work themselves out I find.
Clearly he signed with McLaren with this stipulation in his contract from the start but obviously Hamilton was better than everyone expected. But it was not just purely black and white at McLaren. Many huge mistakes were made by all concerned.
But here we are in 2018 with Hamilton at Mercedes and Vettel at Ferrari.
Would you rate Bottas and Kimi at the same levels as the main two drivers??
No.
Clear number 1 and 2 drivers whatever people think.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Would you rate Bottas and Kimi at the same levels as the main two drivers??
No.
Clear number 1 and 2 drivers whatever people think.
I think that's a little unfair on Mercedes, for one, BOT was highly fancied (only by some admittedly) whilst at Williams and his predecessor was such a number 2 he won the WDC.No.
Clear number 1 and 2 drivers whatever people think.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Would you rate Bottas and Kimi at the same levels as the main two drivers??
No.
Clear number 1 and 2 drivers whatever people think.
I think that's a little unfair on Mercedes, for one, BOT was highly fancied (only by some admittedly) whilst at Williams and his predecessor was such a number 2 he won the WDC.No.
Clear number 1 and 2 drivers whatever people think.
However last years performance also shows just how good Rosberg was - and the sheer effort it took to beat Hamilton. Bottas has 7-10 races to show he can consistently step up, in my view or they will replace him at end of season. He might fit in Ferrari for a season or two, depending on how Leclerc performs in '18.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
I have to laugh at everyone having a go at Alonso for the number one status in a team.
Clearly he signed with McLaren with this stipulation in his contract from the start but obviously Hamilton was better than everyone expected. But it was not just purely black and white at McLaren. Many huge mistakes were made by all concerned.
But here we are in 2018 with Hamilton at Mercedes and Vettel at Ferrari.
Would you rate Bottas and Kimi at the same levels as the main two drivers??
No.
Clear number 1 and 2 drivers whatever people think.
Not 'clearly' I think. Clearly he signed with McLaren with this stipulation in his contract from the start but obviously Hamilton was better than everyone expected. But it was not just purely black and white at McLaren. Many huge mistakes were made by all concerned.
But here we are in 2018 with Hamilton at Mercedes and Vettel at Ferrari.
Would you rate Bottas and Kimi at the same levels as the main two drivers??
No.
Clear number 1 and 2 drivers whatever people think.
It's not what Dennis said and it wasn't contradicted by Alonso. Both drivers were given identical cars. Both drivers were treated equally. There was no number 1 in the contract and that's what got to Alonso and why he had no legal grounds to demand special treatment. He, it would appear, expected to be treated as number 1 because he was Alonso. Big mistake. Get it written.
Dennis failed to manage Alonso. He also failed to keep a close watch on him and PDL Rosa, both of whom cheated, and without his knowledge, as even the manager of the FIA admitted. I can think of one or two other teams that failed to manage Alonso so Dennis should have heeded the warning signs.
The conduct of many people, including betrayal, vindictiveness and cheating, in that scandal was such that 'mistake' doesn't quite cut it. Apart from Dennis that is.
Derek Smith said:
Not 'clearly' I think.
It's not what Dennis said and it wasn't contradicted by Alonso. Both drivers were given identical cars. Both drivers were treated equally. There was no number 1 in the contract and that's what got to Alonso and why he had no legal grounds to demand special treatment. He, it would appear, expected to be treated as number 1 because he was Alonso. Big mistake. Get it written.
It's not what Dennis said and it wasn't contradicted by Alonso. Both drivers were given identical cars. Both drivers were treated equally. There was no number 1 in the contract and that's what got to Alonso and why he had no legal grounds to demand special treatment. He, it would appear, expected to be treated as number 1 because he was Alonso. Big mistake. Get it written.
There was an assumption by all that freddy - at the time of joining mclaren the most accomplished driver on the grid - would not be upstaged by a rookie, team orders while they would have been highly desired by no one less than freddy were just not considered necessary. And now you know what they say about assumption - The rest is history
watched it, lived it, loved it. Actually by love I might mean downright infuriated at times but hey.Derek Smith said:
Not 'clearly' I think.
It's not what Dennis said and it wasn't contradicted by Alonso. Both drivers were given identical cars. Both drivers were treated equally. There was no number 1 in the contract and that's what got to Alonso and why he had no legal grounds to demand special treatment. He, it would appear, expected to be treated as number 1 because he was Alonso. Big mistake. Get it written.
Dennis failed to manage Alonso. He also failed to keep a close watch on him and PDL Rosa, both of whom cheated, and without his knowledge, as even the manager of the FIA admitted. I can think of one or two other teams that failed to manage Alonso so Dennis should have heeded the warning signs.
The conduct of many people, including betrayal, vindictiveness and cheating, in that scandal was such that 'mistake' doesn't quite cut it. Apart from Dennis that is.
Confused now It's not what Dennis said and it wasn't contradicted by Alonso. Both drivers were given identical cars. Both drivers were treated equally. There was no number 1 in the contract and that's what got to Alonso and why he had no legal grounds to demand special treatment. He, it would appear, expected to be treated as number 1 because he was Alonso. Big mistake. Get it written.
Dennis failed to manage Alonso. He also failed to keep a close watch on him and PDL Rosa, both of whom cheated, and without his knowledge, as even the manager of the FIA admitted. I can think of one or two other teams that failed to manage Alonso so Dennis should have heeded the warning signs.
The conduct of many people, including betrayal, vindictiveness and cheating, in that scandal was such that 'mistake' doesn't quite cut it. Apart from Dennis that is.
Many have stated that Alonso was promised number 1 status but was it in his contract??
You would think Alonso and his manager would have only signed the contract knowing this was stipulated?
Quote by Martin Whitmarsh
The issue at the heart of the problems within McLaren all that year was Alonso's demand for the team to focus their title challenge on him, rather than split their efforts by giving team-mate Lewis Hamilton equal status.
That was true to McLaren's long-stated ethos. But Whitmarsh later discovered that when Dennis signed Alonso he had indeed promised him priority status, only to go back on his word.
You can bet your last dollar that Lewis was promised nothing other than the opportunity of a drive. He let his driving do the talking and, quite frankly, made Fernando suddenly look a lot less special.
As others have said, that is the time when what is actually written in the contract really matters. However his reaction to the reality is what has blighted his career ever since, he does seem to enjoy falling out with teams.
Only now, in his twilight years, does he seem to have adopted a more conciliatory tone and realised that he is paid a fortune to do the thing he would probably be happy to do for free.
As others have said, that is the time when what is actually written in the contract really matters. However his reaction to the reality is what has blighted his career ever since, he does seem to enjoy falling out with teams.
Only now, in his twilight years, does he seem to have adopted a more conciliatory tone and realised that he is paid a fortune to do the thing he would probably be happy to do for free.
rdjohn said:
You can bet your last dollar that Lewis was promised nothing other than the opportunity of a drive. He let his driving do the talking and, quite frankly, made Fernando suddenly look a lot less special.
As others have said, that is the time when what is actually written in the contract really matters. However his reaction to the reality is what has blighted his career ever since, he does seem to enjoy falling out with teams.
Only now, in his twilight years, does he seem to have adopted a more conciliatory tone and realised that he is paid a fortune to do the thing he would probably be happy to do for free.
Of course Lewis was promised nothing but a drive at McLaren. He was a rookie coming into F1. Just getting a drive in a top team in your first year was unheard of and many would have killed for that kind of opportunity.As others have said, that is the time when what is actually written in the contract really matters. However his reaction to the reality is what has blighted his career ever since, he does seem to enjoy falling out with teams.
Only now, in his twilight years, does he seem to have adopted a more conciliatory tone and realised that he is paid a fortune to do the thing he would probably be happy to do for free.
If Alonso knew/thought his contract was as the number one driver then he would have been pretty confused about what was going on. Clearly there was a lack of understanding but considering the support Hamilton had from McLaren "backing through his Motorsport journey" then you can understand why Alonso would jump to conclusions.
Stating you have number one status only to have this retracted must have been a pretty difficult situation to be in and of course it all imploded.
But IF it was all Alonso and he was totally to blame then why would McLaren touch him again?
I am sure there was a lot of rubbish behind the scenes.
Lewis is clearly a extremely talented driver but I just hope we get to see BOTH of them in decent cars to see who really is the best.
I am sure all fans would love to see that
With regard to the analysis of race sims which suggest Mercedes have a decent advantage. Vettel is reported as saying the Merc race sims were conducted with a single tyre compound which of course isn't allowable in an actual race. So the apparent advantage in pace is just down to an irregular use of tyres.
Would be interesting to know from people who have been interpreting the race sims if this is an valid point in explaining the difference in pace.
Would be interesting to know from people who have been interpreting the race sims if this is an valid point in explaining the difference in pace.
EddieSteadyGo said:
With regard to the analysis of race sims which suggest Mercedes have a decent advantage. Vettel is reported as saying the Merc race sims were conducted with a single tyre compound which of course isn't allowable in an actual race. So the apparent advantage in pace is just down to an irregular use of tyres.
Would be interesting to know from people who have been interpreting the race sims if this is an valid point in explaining the difference in pace.
A few are stating Red Bull will be the best car at the first race with their expected upgrades.Would be interesting to know from people who have been interpreting the race sims if this is an valid point in explaining the difference in pace.
Even Mercedes are stating this.
Personally think this is just mind games as the Mercedes on paper looks the fastest especially considering they worked more with harder compound tyres during the tests.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
But IF it was all Alonso and he was totally to blame then why would McLaren touch him again?
Mclaren were desperate and the fact top team (which Mclaren were not by then other than in RD's dreams) would give him a seat tells it's own story.Phenomenal driver but especially after 07 with Mosley and the Singapore incident the next year, he's impossible to like imo.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Confused now
Many have stated that Alonso was promised number 1 status but was it in his contract??
You would think Alonso and his manager would have only signed the contract knowing this was stipulated?
Quote by Martin Whitmarsh
The issue at the heart of the problems within McLaren all that year was Alonso's demand for the team to focus their title challenge on him, rather than split their efforts by giving team-mate Lewis Hamilton equal status.
That was true to McLaren's long-stated ethos. But Whitmarsh later discovered that when Dennis signed Alonso he had indeed promised him priority status, only to go back on his word.
That's not a quote from Whitmarsh ...it's from a fluff piece by Benson.Many have stated that Alonso was promised number 1 status but was it in his contract??
You would think Alonso and his manager would have only signed the contract knowing this was stipulated?
Quote by Martin Whitmarsh
The issue at the heart of the problems within McLaren all that year was Alonso's demand for the team to focus their title challenge on him, rather than split their efforts by giving team-mate Lewis Hamilton equal status.
That was true to McLaren's long-stated ethos. But Whitmarsh later discovered that when Dennis signed Alonso he had indeed promised him priority status, only to go back on his word.
afaiaa neither Whitmarsh, Alonso or Dennis have ever spoken to the press or written about what actually happened in 07.
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