The Official Australian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[anonymous-user]

Car-Matt said:

Utter nonsense

The VSC was to make sure that despite safety car conditions you couldn't have drivers exceeding the speed of the safety car until they caught the back of the queue in part response to Jules Bianchi's accident

Do at least pretend to follow the sport

For completeness here's a link explaining it http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/safety_car_virt...

Edited by Car-Matt on Tuesday 27th March 10:44

You are talking nonsense yourself.

The Safety car isn't on the track during a VSC, it is a system used to lower the speed of cars during a danger period without the need to send the safety car out on track. Under VSC no car should gain or lose the gap to the car in front or behind.

This is why the anomaly of being able to gain an advantage in the pit stops goes against the idea behind the VSC.

It was brought into the rules because drivers were driving too fast in yellow zones, which meant they couldn't recover a car safely. It was introduced so you wouldnt have the change in race outcome that can happen with the cars closing up during a physical safety car period.

[Oilchange]

Dr Z said:

_#_thuglife

Mmm, best to get these difficult lessons over early in the season...

[The Moose]

Whilst I don't like Vettel and prefer Hamilton, what happened under the VSC was just a matter of racing is racing and playing to the rules.

For ever, some drivers have won and some have lost under the safety car (virtual or otherwise). And Sunday was no different.

[Vaud]

The Moose said:

Whilst I don't like Vettel and prefer Hamilton, what happened under the VSC was just a matter of racing is racing and playing to the rules.

For ever, some drivers have won and some have lost under the safety car (virtual or otherwise). And Sunday was no different.

Yup. Neither driver can be criticised (for once). Sometimes right place, right time wins a race.

[MartG]

Like the time Schumacher won a race when actually in the pits for a penalty, it seems Ferrari made good use of a wrinkle in the rules which no doubt will now be removed ( or knowing the FIA, dealt with by adding a further complex rule )

[anonymous-user]

They don't even recognise its a problem, so i wouldn't expect any rule change.

[The Moose]

jsf said:

They don't even recognise its a problem, so i wouldn't expect any rule change.

Recognize what is a problem? That under safety cars there are some winners and some losers?

[anonymous-user]

The Moose said:

jsf said:

They don't even recognise its a problem, so i wouldn't expect any rule change.

Recognize what is a problem? That under safety cars there are some winners and some losers?

That the VSC doesn't do its job of giving nobody an advantage or a disadvantage whilst implementing a safe environment to recover cars.

[The Moose]

jsf said:

The Moose said:

jsf said:

They don't even recognise its a problem, so i wouldn't expect any rule change.

Recognize what is a problem? That under safety cars there are some winners and some losers?

That the VSC doesn't do its job of giving nobody an advantage or a disadvantage whilst implementing a safe environment to recover cars.

I didn't realize that the "giving nobody an advantage of disadvantage" was part of it's original brief?

I thought the idea was they could deal with smaller issues more quickly as they didn't have to worry about drivers trying to catch up with the back of the pack before sending the marshals onto the track?

I am however the first to hold my hand up and say I am wrong however...

[anonymous-user]

The Moose said:

jsf said:

The Moose said:

jsf said:

They don't even recognise its a problem, so i wouldn't expect any rule change.

Recognize what is a problem? That under safety cars there are some winners and some losers?

That the VSC doesn't do its job of giving nobody an advantage or a disadvantage whilst implementing a safe environment to recover cars.

I didn't realize that the "giving nobody an advantage of disadvantage" was part of it's original brief?

I thought the idea was they could deal with smaller issues more quickly as they didn't have to worry about drivers trying to catch up with the back of the pack before sending the marshals onto the track?

I am however the first to hold my hand up and say I am wrong however...

The exact wording is "40.1 The VSC procedure may be initiated to neutralise a practice session or a race upon the order of the clerk of the course"

If someone can gain an advantage from its deployment, then the race hasn't been neutralised.
You cant serve any penalties whilst the VSC is in operation, for the same reason.

[MartG]

The specific wrinkle which Ferrari took advantage of is that while under VSC conditions, cars on the circuit must travel at a particular speed limit BUT this limit does not apply to pit entry or exit roads. As soon as he crossed the line marking the boundary between the circuit and the pit entry road, Vettel nailed the throttle and gained enough speed & distance to pass Hamilton who remained out and subject to the VSC limits.

[Mr Tidy]

When F1 rules let the 3rd quickest driver over the weekend win the race I think a review of the rules might be in order!

Harsh on Kimi, but he played the team card to be fair - but brutal for Lewis!

And I can't help thinking Seb is getting very smug these days - not a fan any more!

[DanielSan]

Mr Tidy said:

When F1 rules let the 3rd quickest driver over the weekend win the race I think a review of the rules might be in order!

Harsh on Kimi, but he played the team card to be fair - but brutal for Lewis!

And I can't help thinking Seb is getting very smug these days - not a fan any more!

Are you new to F1 and Motorsport in general? The fastest car/driver not winning is hardly a new phenomenon... Didn’t Ricciardo set the fastest lap in the race Sunday? He finished 4th...

[AW111]

MartG said:

The specific wrinkle which Ferrari took advantage of is that while under VSC conditions, cars on the circuit must travel at a particular speed limit BUT this limit does not apply to pit entry or exit roads. As soon as he crossed the line marking the boundary between the circuit and the pit entry road, Vettel nailed the throttle and gained enough speed & distance to pass Hamilton who remained out and subject to the VSC limits.

Why do people keep repeating this crap?

Vettel didn't pass Hamilton under the VSC.

Vettel was in the lead when he pitted.

[cheddar]

AW111 said:

Why do people keep repeating this crap?

Vettel didn't pass Hamilton under the VSC.

Vettel was in the lead when he pitted.

Yes but had he had to adhere to the VSC speed limit on pit entry and exit he wouldn't have been ahead of Hamilton when he rejoined.

[The Moose]

jsf said:

The Moose said:

jsf said:

The Moose said:

jsf said:

They don't even recognise its a problem, so i wouldn't expect any rule change.

Recognize what is a problem? That under safety cars there are some winners and some losers?

That the VSC doesn't do its job of giving nobody an advantage or a disadvantage whilst implementing a safe environment to recover cars.

I didn't realize that the "giving nobody an advantage of disadvantage" was part of it's original brief?

I thought the idea was they could deal with smaller issues more quickly as they didn't have to worry about drivers trying to catch up with the back of the pack before sending the marshals onto the track?

I am however the first to hold my hand up and say I am wrong however...

The exact wording is "40.1 The VSC procedure may be initiated to neutralise a practice session or a race upon the order of the clerk of the course"

If someone can gain an advantage from its deployment, then the race hasn't been neutralised.
You cant serve any penalties whilst the VSC is in operation, for the same reason.

That’s the wording of the rule, not the reason it came about.

Out of interest, what’s the wording of the rule(s) regarding the full safety car?

[Hungrymc]

cheddar said:

Yes but had he had to adhere to the VSC speed limit on pit entry and exit he wouldn't have been ahead of Hamilton when he rejoined.

What is the VSC speed limit?

I thought it was minimum sector times which he absolutely did adhere too (Just managed to squeeze a pit stop into a couple of sectors)

[Hungrymc]

So people gain an advantage under full SC. You get to close the gaps and even unlap yourself.... huge advantage.

The only advantage under VSC I can see is the potential pit stop. I’ve been thinking it is what it is, one of those things, no need to change anything......

BUT does the pit stopper get to fire off at least one sector at pretty much racing speed if there are no cars to pass? What happens when there is a big accident involving a recovery crew or similar because someone is pushing when they are meant to be driving at the delta speed? Unless I’ve miss understood something (quite possible) it sounds like an opportunity for a repeat of a horrendous incident.

[Gad-Westy]

Hungrymc said:

So people gain an advantage under full SC. You get to close the gaps and even unlap yourself.... huge advantage.

The only advantage under VSC I can see is the potential pit stop. I’ve been thinking it is what it is, one of those things, no need to change anything......

BUT does the pit stopper get to fire off at least one sector at pretty much racing speed if there are no cars to pass? What happens when there is a big accident involving a recovery crew or similar because someone is pushing when they are meant to be driving at the delta speed? Unless I’ve miss understood something (quite possible) it sounds like an opportunity for a repeat of a horrendous incident.

Totally agree with your first point. Pot luck ,always has been. I did wonder about that other element myself though. If you had an obstruction at turn 1 say, it seems plausible that a car that's just pitted could be entering that area at full racing speed as long as they're not going to break their sector time minimum. Or is there a hard speed limit as well as target sector times?

[thegreenhell]

When they talk about sectors in this context they aren't talking about the three big timing sectors around the circuit that we normally get to see. For the purposes of VSC, and also the live splits that we sometimes get, they split the circuit up into many more sectors, roughly every marshall post, so they don't really get much opportunity for speeding up within a sector without exceeding the VSC limits.