The Official 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**
Discussion
Frimley111R said:
I dislike Ferrari because they laud it over Formula 1 saying that if they leave F1 will be rubbish and management of F1 fall for this and pay them extra money to keep them sweet to the tune of millions of pounds. Ferrari need F1 more than F1 needs Ferrari and I want to see someone stand up and tell Ferrari that if they don't like it the can leave. i'm surprised all the other teams have not kicked up enough to get this sorted.
They irritate me as well. Sooner or later someone is going to ask them to close the door on their way out. It's a bluff at the moment although they could return to sports car racing I suppose, in the hope that their fans follow. But I doubt it. I remember them 'giving up' sports car racing in the 60s. The other cars became too fast and they decided not to compete.
In those days F1 was ruled by the 'garagistes': Lotus, Cooper, Brabham and others. Enzo F was full of disdain and obviously felt that he could trounce them, as he did in the F2 regs days. They totally dominated the sport. When the new regs arrived they had to put up with cars with bought in engines and gearboxes giving them a run for their much greater money, and beating them. Come the Cosworth DFV and it was 10 years in the wilderness for WDC and only a little better for the WCC. They were destroyed by the garagistes. Then Enzo died and they got sensible management and they took over the sport; the wilderness years for the rest. Sensible management for the team and less so for the FIA.
There's no doubt that if Ferrari went, F1 would suffer from the point of view of Liberty, i.e. the income would plummet. Whether the loss of their ability to influence the regs beyond any other manufacturer would be the massive bonus some seem to think is, I think, doubtful.
We're stuck with them, at least in the short/medium term. Liberty need to control them though or else the other teams might disappear.
That said, they are taking the battle to Merc. I'm in two minds about them. They have been kept honest by Ferrari over recent years but then with their advantages, so they should. The pair of them have given us great racing over recent years so thanks to Ferrari there.
Derek Smith said:
They ( McLaren) were started by a mechanic and were built up into a £multi million concern. It is one of the British success stories in the sport. Despite them being their greatest rival for some years, I want Williams to do well as well.
They were started by a driver. The clue is in the name - McLaren. One of only 2 drivers to race cars of his own manufacture to F1 victory. The other being Brabham. Plenty of others have tried.The mechanic (Ron) came along many years later - the MP4 era started in the early 80's not the 60's. Ron, of course. lead the team through a very successful period.
Pedantry mode off. Ron, himself, has always gone out of his way to stress the full history of the team. Accuracy matters.
Nothing to do with the Chinese GP but I though you all might want to hear about Barrichello
https://www.iol.co.za/sport/more-sport/ex-ferrari-...
https://www.iol.co.za/sport/more-sport/ex-ferrari-...
Gaz. said:
It's in the back of the Torro Rosso after Mclaren refused to make space for it. It's 4cm longer and 4kg heavier than the latest spec Honda Mclaren used. It required a new floor, sidepods and engine cover and was ready after Spain last year and Mclaren said no so instead Honda had to waste six months and lots of yen trying to make the 3.X specs work better.
that's interesting. Is it official or heresy?How big is the Honda compared to fez/merc lumps?
paua said:
They were started by a driver. The clue is in the name - McLaren. One of only 2 drivers to race cars of his own manufacture to F1 victory. The other being Brabham. Plenty of others have tried.
The mechanic (Ron) came along many years later - the MP4 era started in the early 80's not the 60's. Ron, of course. lead the team through a very successful period.
Pedantry mode off. Ron, himself, has always gone out of his way to stress the full history of the team. Accuracy matters.
On the subject of pedantry...The mechanic (Ron) came along many years later - the MP4 era started in the early 80's not the 60's. Ron, of course. lead the team through a very successful period.
Pedantry mode off. Ron, himself, has always gone out of his way to stress the full history of the team. Accuracy matters.
Dan Gurney, Eagle-Weslake, Spa 1967 - the second F1 driver to win in a car of his own construction. McLaren became the third one year later.
thegreenhell said:
paua said:
They were started by a driver. The clue is in the name - McLaren. One of only 2 drivers to race cars of his own manufacture to F1 victory. The other being Brabham. Plenty of others have tried.
The mechanic (Ron) came along many years later - the MP4 era started in the early 80's not the 60's. Ron, of course. lead the team through a very successful period.
Pedantry mode off. Ron, himself, has always gone out of his way to stress the full history of the team. Accuracy matters.
On the subject of pedantry...The mechanic (Ron) came along many years later - the MP4 era started in the early 80's not the 60's. Ron, of course. lead the team through a very successful period.
Pedantry mode off. Ron, himself, has always gone out of his way to stress the full history of the team. Accuracy matters.
Dan Gurney, Eagle-Weslake, Spa 1967 - the second F1 driver to win in a car of his own construction. McLaren became the third one year later.
paua said:
OOps, my error there, should not have forgotten - especially as he died so recently. Cheers
Isn’t it Mclaren and Brabham who have the win a race in a car bearing their own name title? Effectively the same thing I know but I’m taking a shot at the pedantry while not being 100% certain 
paua said:
They were started by a driver. The clue is in the name - McLaren. One of only 2 drivers to race cars of his own manufacture to F1 victory. The other being Brabham. Plenty of others have tried.
The mechanic (Ron) came along many years later - the MP4 era started in the early 80's not the 60's. Ron, of course. lead the team through a very successful period.
Pedantry mode off. Ron, himself, has always gone out of his way to stress the full history of the team. Accuracy matters.
I was talking about MP4. The F1 team that Dennis started was a new one to my eyes, ironically enough identical to the way I see McL today. He, like the new owners, changed the car designation. The M stood for Marlborough. That's good enough for me. Keeping the name was irrelevant. After all, Max doesn't drive a Stewart. What about Force India? Does the boss talk rubbish on TV?The mechanic (Ron) came along many years later - the MP4 era started in the early 80's not the 60's. Ron, of course. lead the team through a very successful period.
Pedantry mode off. Ron, himself, has always gone out of his way to stress the full history of the team. Accuracy matters.
The only team that's still the same to me is Williams and even that is arguable.
The Ron Dennis era McLaren was a merger of project 4 and McLaren. The original McLaren management were still the management of the new merged team originally with Ron as a new member of the management team . It wasn't until later that Ron had full control when Teddy and the original group had enough and were bought out.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 18th April 07:53
Gaz. said:
Dr Z said:
It seems the only thing McLaren learned from Honda over 3 years is about promising upgrades and never delivering. Where is that mythical Spec 4 anyway? 
It's in the back of the Torro Rosso after Mclaren refused to make space for it. It's 4cm longer and 4kg heavier than the latest spec Honda Mclaren used. It required a new floor, sidepods and engine cover and was ready after Spain last year and Mclaren said no so instead Honda had to waste six months and lots of yen trying to make the 3.X specs work better. Edited by Dr Z on Wednesday 18th April 10:34
angrymoby said:
HustleRussell said:
Engine penalties will put paid to that.
This.iirc isn't Ricciardo already on his 3rd & final ICE?
Dr Z said:
Gaz. said:
Dr Z said:
It seems the only thing McLaren learned from Honda over 3 years is about promising upgrades and never delivering. Where is that mythical Spec 4 anyway?
It's in the back of the Torro Rosso after Mclaren refused to make space for it. It's 4cm longer and 4kg heavier than the latest spec Honda Mclaren used. It required a new floor, sidepods and engine cover and was ready after Spain last year and Mclaren said no so instead Honda had to waste six months and lots of yen trying to make the 3.X specs work better. Edited by Dr Z on Wednesday 18th April 10:34
They obviously need to run another group of simulations for “What if VER takes out the guy in front scenario.” Will HAM jink left, or right? Will RAI run over some debris? etc. etc.
I think that they are trying to be a bit too reliant on the computer. It would be interesting to see a similar debrief from RB - did they just do what seemed to be a no-brainier in a fraction of very smart human thinking?
I think that they are trying to be a bit too reliant on the computer. It would be interesting to see a similar debrief from RB - did they just do what seemed to be a no-brainier in a fraction of very smart human thinking?
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