The Official F1 2019 silly season *contains speculation*
Discussion
ELUSIVEJIM said:
If Toto Wolf is wanting three cars teams due to his young drivers not having any seats then why does Mercedes not push some financial incentives in William's direction and fill the two seats there?
Whether Williams want to admit it or not they are not going to be fighting for any Championships in the near future/again so it would benefit both Mercedes and Williams.
Williams is already using Mercedes power plants so give them a discount on that for starters.
That's not why he wants third cars though. He's already said he isn't going to pay another team to take his young drivers just for the sake of having them racing. It's a power grab, wrapped up as 'helping young talent' to try to disguise his true intentions.Whether Williams want to admit it or not they are not going to be fighting for any Championships in the near future/again so it would benefit both Mercedes and Williams.
Williams is already using Mercedes power plants so give them a discount on that for starters.
HustleRussell said:
I swear some people's memories don't extend beyond the most recent race.
Perez is one of those drivers whose good performances fly under the radar but when he has a bad weekend everybody takes great delight in jumping on him.
Ocon is Mercedes' next big thing, he has not embarrassed Perez. Button didn't embarrass Perez. Hulkenberg didn't embarrass Perez. Perez has scored more podiums in the turbo hybrid era than all the other second tier team drivers combined IIRC.
I don't know why everyone bashes Perez so much.
Singapore was a complete s
t show from Perez but one race is not a trend.
Agreed, Perez (and not his money) for me is the reason Ocon has no seat.Perez is one of those drivers whose good performances fly under the radar but when he has a bad weekend everybody takes great delight in jumping on him.
Ocon is Mercedes' next big thing, he has not embarrassed Perez. Button didn't embarrass Perez. Hulkenberg didn't embarrass Perez. Perez has scored more podiums in the turbo hybrid era than all the other second tier team drivers combined IIRC.
I don't know why everyone bashes Perez so much.
Singapore was a complete s
t show from Perez but one race is not a trend. He's held his own against everyone hes been put up against and shown merc's future world beater has a long way to go, there is very little between them.
Ocon, like Wehrlein was sent the wrong path by Merc and should have gone to GP2.
That said GP2 hasn't exactly shown itself to be a clean indication of F1 success, the most recent F2/GP2 graduate champion to win an F1 race was Pastor Maldonado. In the history of GP2 30 drivers had made it to F1, only 3 have won races, the other 2 are Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton.
andburg said:
Agreed, Perez (and not his money) for me is the reason Ocon has no seat.
He's held his own against everyone hes been put up against and shown merc's future world beater has a long way to go, there is very little between them.
Ocon, like Wehrlein was sent the wrong path by Merc and should have gone to GP2.
That said GP2 hasn't exactly shown itself to be a clean indication of F1 success, the most recent F2/GP2 graduate champion to win an F1 race was Pastor Maldonado. In the history of GP2 30 drivers had made it to F1, only 3 have won races, the other 2 are Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton.
Perez did have a loony moment but his career has still be tainted by his McLaren stint which is unfair.He's held his own against everyone hes been put up against and shown merc's future world beater has a long way to go, there is very little between them.
Ocon, like Wehrlein was sent the wrong path by Merc and should have gone to GP2.
That said GP2 hasn't exactly shown itself to be a clean indication of F1 success, the most recent F2/GP2 graduate champion to win an F1 race was Pastor Maldonado. In the history of GP2 30 drivers had made it to F1, only 3 have won races, the other 2 are Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton.
But he is more of a solid number two rather than a Championship contender.
But he has run into Ocon on a number of occasions which IMO would put many bigger teams off.
As you have said Ocon hasn't blown Perez out of the water.
Still, Ocon is young but many now expect young drivers to be the next Verstappen as soon as they enter the sport.
He is still only 22 years of age.
You would have thought that being a Mercedes young driver would be a huge advantage but clearly, it's not.
It is a worry that the young driver programmes in F1 seem to be struggling.
andburg said:
That said GP2 hasn't exactly shown itself to be a clean indication of F1 success, the most recent F2/GP2 graduate champion to win an F1 race was Pastor Maldonado. In the history of GP2 30 drivers had made it to F1, only 3 have won races, the other 2 are Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton.
Isn't that just showing that in F1 (bar the very occasional freak result like Pastor) there's almost no chance of winning outside of the top couple of teams and for a few seasons only the top team?
ELUSIVEJIM said:
If Toto Wolf is wanting three cars teams due to his young drivers not having any seats then why does Mercedes not push some financial incentives in William's direction and fill the two seats there?
Whether Williams want to admit it or not they are not going to be fighting for any Championships in the near future/again so it would benefit both Mercedes and Williams.
Williams is already using Mercedes power plants so give them a discount on that for starters.
The issue is that the discount isn't as much as they want (need), and they dont *want* to be a B team,Whether Williams want to admit it or not they are not going to be fighting for any Championships in the near future/again so it would benefit both Mercedes and Williams.
Williams is already using Mercedes power plants so give them a discount on that for starters.
Williams are actually in quite a strong position by not confirming any drivers. The grid doesn't really have any proper journeymen drivers any more - like Stroll or not, he can still pedal a car well, and Sirotkin has been in such a crap car all season no-one really knows what he can do.
I cant see Williams confirming until after the season end. Stroll will need to pay to break his contract, so that'll offset what they might loose by taking Russell / Ocon .
If not, then it'll be a Russian and who ever is able to grab the seat first when the music stops.
Vaud said:
Of course they are relevant to the list... There are a whole bunch of drivers that have enough points, but are pointless to consider due to age and reputation.
Not in the context of the original post which I replied to and quoted. If they don't want to consider older drivers then that's their problem not anyone elses so it's not really accurate to say they have no choices other than the couple of drivers they are considering.
If/As F1 is short of seats for the young 'uns, what about running 1-2 year old cars in separate teams?
Virtually no development costs, seat time for the drivers, cars should be slow enough not to embarass the current year's cars (unless you pitch last year's top three against this year's bottom three - needs working out, granted). Make them ineligible for TV/prize money since they haven't had to make the things to keep the usual suspects happy, but allow them to sell sponsorship. Also homologate the cars at the start of the season so no silly development war kicks off.
You could have three extra teams with young drivers on their own playing field to gauge some idea who's quick and who isn't. F1 fans have more cars on the track and another competition to watch at the same time.
In the good/bad old days it was common for older F1 cars to compete on the same track at the same time as the latest stuff.
My 2d worth
Virtually no development costs, seat time for the drivers, cars should be slow enough not to embarass the current year's cars (unless you pitch last year's top three against this year's bottom three - needs working out, granted). Make them ineligible for TV/prize money since they haven't had to make the things to keep the usual suspects happy, but allow them to sell sponsorship. Also homologate the cars at the start of the season so no silly development war kicks off.
You could have three extra teams with young drivers on their own playing field to gauge some idea who's quick and who isn't. F1 fans have more cars on the track and another competition to watch at the same time.
In the good/bad old days it was common for older F1 cars to compete on the same track at the same time as the latest stuff.
My 2d worth
It's been suggest before, but a sprint race after qualy on Saturday makes potential sense for viewers and ticket holders. One car per team, 30-50% race distance. One lap qualifying format or random grid.
Sure they will have to take a 3rd full car to the circuit but this could be mitigated by an additional payment from Liberty for those that commit. Or tax the front running teams a small amount to support the rear teams for this activity (hard to police)
OK, you would only have 10 cars, but it might make for some fun viewing.
Sure they will have to take a 3rd full car to the circuit but this could be mitigated by an additional payment from Liberty for those that commit. Or tax the front running teams a small amount to support the rear teams for this activity (hard to police)
OK, you would only have 10 cars, but it might make for some fun viewing.
Lentilist said:
andburg said:
That said GP2 hasn't exactly shown itself to be a clean indication of F1 success, the most recent F2/GP2 graduate champion to win an F1 race was Pastor Maldonado. In the history of GP2 30 drivers had made it to F1, only 3 have won races, the other 2 are Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton.
Out of interest, I looked back at F3000, and only three champions (Alesi, Panis and Montoya) ever won races in F1, so I suspect that speaks more of the lack of seats and the resource required to win in F1 rather than necessarily the quality of the feeder series. Plenty of F3000/GP2/F2 drivers have won in other high profile series.
)Vaud said:
Excellent. I thought he deserved a second chance.
he deserved better treatment, but he was given a great chance.The way he seemed to crumble when things didn't go his way makes me question whether he'd have the grit to go all the way. But maybe I'm being harsh, he was young and maybe not ready.
Mr Pointy said:
It's unfortunate RB have mandated the use of a driver who has already been dumped twice for not being good enough while better talent won't get a drive. It shows how limited STR's ambition & independence is.
Ticktum can look on and know it could’ve been him in that car. I’m glad it’s not. Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff