The Official F1 2019 silly season *contains speculation*

[andburg]

despite all the plaudits given to some of these young drivers in F1 I cant help but they the only one who's come in and is genuinely looking like a future champ is LeClerc.

Perez is not a future world champ nor is Hulkenberg but I don't see Sainz/Ocon beating them regularly and both have now had ample tiem to adjust to F1.

Prior to LeClerc...
Verstappen is potentially a world champ but in glimmers
Wehrlein again showed glimmers and was soundly beating Erricson but favour swung away before he got a competitive drive
Bianchi never had a chance to really show what he was capable of.

The last young driver to hit F1 as a potential champion and actually live up to the hype by beating and really pressuing fast, experienced team mates was the young Lewis Hamilton.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

I think Hamilton is one of those special cases though, the driver of his generation. If you go back you’ve always got one...
Hamilton
Alonso
Schumacher
Senna
Prost
Piquet
Lauda
Stewart
Clark

Etc etc (only imho, not gospel!)

I think you could say Vettel proved himself (like him or not) and the early plaudits right.

Ones who didn’t? Button, Kimi,

[Salamura]

You could argue that winning a championship is a pretty good way to prove yourself....

[thegreenhell]

bobbo89 said:

No, absolutely not! Ocon has massive potential that'll be stifled at McLaren like it has done Vandoorne who's basically had his rookie years ruined and potentially lost his opportunity in F1.

I'm beginning to think that Vandoorne might be another Jan Magnussen - hailed as the second coming through the junior formulae, but somehow fails to perform at the same level under the spotlight of F1. He just seems to lack a little spark. I'd be very surprised to see him given a third season in the McLaren, unless they really want some driver continuity into next season.

[Vaud]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

I think Hamilton is one of those special cases though, the driver of his generation. If you go back you’ve always got one...
Hamilton
Alonso
Schumacher
Senna
Prost
Piquet
Lauda
Stewart
Clark

Etc etc (only imho, not gospel!)

I think you could say Vettel proved himself (like him or not) and the early plaudits right.

Ones who didn’t? Button, Kimi,

I agree... Add Hill, Jacques Villeneuve to the latter.

Hakkinen is probably in the first list, based on what Schumacher thought of him as a peer and his recovery from near death at Adelaide.

[andburg]

Salamura said:

You could argue that winning a championship is a pretty good way to prove yourself....

In their first season or 2 I'd settle for clearly beating their established teammate.

Stoffel has the hardest task here given his teammmate but hes been soundly beaten and the mental damage of this could be irreparable.
Max is not too far of Danny Ricc and has managed to win a 4 races. He has the pace but perhaps missing a little maturity to beat him over a season.
Sainz was beaten by Max while the partnership lasted and is now being beaten by Hulkenberg, who was beaten by Perez 2015/6 at Force India.
Ocon is again being beaten by Perez, no shame in that he's proven to be quick and a possibly a little closer to him than Hulkenberg but again noone talks about Perez winning a championship.
Gasly has potential but his yard stick is Hartley and that's looking like a pretty short stick because RBR had noone else to put in the car.

[thegreenhell]

If Mark Hughes' musings come to pass then we could see something like this next year:

Mercedes: Hamilton and Bottas
Ferrari: Vettel and Kimi
Red Bull: Verstappen and Gasly
Renault: Hulkenberg and Ricciardo
Haas: Magnussen and Leclerc
Force India: Perez and Stroll
McLaren: Sainz and Ocon
Toro Rosso: Hartley and Norris
Sauber: Ericsson and Vandoorne
Williams: Sirotkin and Kubica

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/mph-...

If Stroll Snr decides to move his boy to FI immediately, then we could even see some of these moves happen as soon as Spa.

Stroll -> FI
Ocon -> McLaren
Vandoorne has a rest for the remainder of the season
Kubica in at Williams

It's a long shot, but there's clearly an awful lot going on in the background, and several pieces of the puzzle still to move into place before the music stops.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

I’ll tell you what greenhell, I’d be pretty happy with those line ups.

[rdjohn]

Spa could be even more interesting this year.

However, I think that existing contracts might cap any big changes for the rest of this year. Mercedes are the biggest debtor of FI and have ambitious plans for Ocon. Similarly Stroll will have a contract with Williams. If performance was the only key indicator, then I think that Martini would have quit after Oz. So perhaps the status-quo will be maintained for the rest of this season.

The placement of Ocon for next year is clearly the next part of “the big picture”. If it is McLaren then him beating Sainz could seriously shorten the Spaniards career - the next Jaime Alguersuari? Given McLaren’s acceptance of previous rejects, I am surprised nobody considers the possibility of Perez becoming Sainz’s partner. I am sure that McLaren would welcome his cash injection and I think that the new owners of FI can come up with sufficient sponsorship deals to cover the teams expenses, having, in effect, two free drivers.

[DanielSan]

bobbo89 said:

No, absolutely not! Ocon has massive potential that'll be stifled at McLaren like it has done Vandoorne who's basically had his rookie years ruined and potentially lost his opportunity in F1.

Brave move from Sainz for this very reason but I think it was pretty much his only option!

Edited by bobbo89 on Thursday 16th August 21:50

Let’s have in a Williams then running round at the back being forgotten about. That’ll be great for his career

[Sam993]

rdjohn said:

the next Jaime Alguersuari?

fking heck, that was a trip down memory lane, I remember Lee McKenzie visiting him in his music studio on BBC before Valencia GP like it was yesterday... and that must have been 2010/11! He disappeared pretty quickly after that!

[bobbo89]

DanielSan said:

Let’s have in a Williams then running round at the back being forgotten about. That’ll be great for his career

Would keeping him at FI not be a better option? If I were Stroll Snr i'd much rather have Lance teamed up with Ocon than Perez!

[anonymous-user]

Sam993 said:

fking heck, that was a trip down memory lane, I remember Lee McKenzie visiting him in his music studio on BBC before Valencia GP like it was yesterday... and that must have been 2010/11! He disappeared pretty quickly after that!

Did he not block Red Bull's golden boy Vettel and that was that.

Footage of him arguing back with Marko which would have been fatal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXDI2HNLqoo

[anonymous-user]

bobbo89 said:

Would keeping him at FI not be a better option? If I were Stroll Snr i'd much rather have Lance teamed up with Ocon than Perez!

It not going to be easy for Stroll Snr.

Put a talent in the car and risk having his son beaten?

Or will he make sure the second car is not as good.

Whoever signs for Force Stroll will need to check the car himself

[bobbo89]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

It not going to be easy for Stroll Snr.

Put a talent in the car and risk having his son beaten?

Or will he make sure the second car is not as good.

Whoever signs for Force Stroll will need to check the car himself

That'd be a very silly thing to be doing in their first year as team owners and I really cant see it happening.

Personally i think McLarn wil keep Vandoorne, Ocon will stay at FI and Perez will go to Williams who'll want his sponsorship money.

[Dr Z]

andburg said:

despite all the plaudits given to some of these young drivers in F1 I cant help but they the only one who's come in and is genuinely looking like a future champ is LeClerc.

Perez is not a future world champ nor is Hulkenberg but I don't see Sainz/Ocon beating them regularly and both have now had ample tiem to adjust to F1.

Prior to LeClerc...
Verstappen is potentially a world champ but in glimmers
Wehrlein again showed glimmers and was soundly beating Erricson but favour swung away before he got a competitive drive
Bianchi never had a chance to really show what he was capable of.

The last young driver to hit F1 as a potential champion and actually live up to the hype by beating and really pressuing fast, experienced team mates was the young Lewis Hamilton.

I think you are grossly underestimating the quality of some of the drivers you mention. What, Hulk not a future champion?

The difference between (an experienced) Perez, Hulk, Sainz or Ocon and Hamilton is having a car good enough to win races or paired with an established benchmark.

Those guys haven't really had a chance to show what they're capable of, have they?

Perez got beat by Button but ran Hulk very very close. Perez was still quite inexperienced to be thrown into a team like McLaren who had an established WDC in the other seat. He showed more than capable of ruffling JB's feathers when asked to get his elbows out a bit.

Hulk is massively under rated by everyone. A lot of fans are going to be surprised next season, if they expect Ricciardo to have him covered. Basically, you put him next to Max in the RB of this year and he'd be fighting for this Championship.

Ocon is a bit rough round the edges, probably will need his head managing by the team a bit but he's been consistently quick relative to Perez (who's not the driver who drove for McLaren).

Sainz Jr. His record against Hulk is not bad. Although the points don't reflect that, this year on pure pace it's 5-7 to Hulk. If he had that record to Alonso, we'd all be hailing him as the next Hamilton, but he's fighting in the incredibly volatile midfield, this goes unnoticed. He was without a doubt, the quicker driver in the 2015 STR against Max. MV was more of a race day guy, it's funny to see him outqualify Dan more often these days but lose the plot on the race day!

I rate Sainz and I'm pretty happy that he's driving for McLaren next year.

[anonymous-user]

bobbo89 said:

That'd be a very silly thing to be doing in their first year as team owners and I really cant see it happening.

Personally i think McLarn wil keep Vandoorne, Ocon will stay at FI and Perez will go to Williams who'll want his sponsorship money.

You would hope they would but


British Formula 3 star George Russell has claimed that team orders apparently favouring Lance Stroll are going to ruin the F3 European Championship.

William protege Stroll, whose father Lawrence invests in Prema Powerteam, won the first race of the opening round at Paul Ricard after making an easy pass on team-mate Nick Cassidy as they started the second lap.

Poleman Stroll lost the advantage at the start to Cassidy, but Cassidy locked up at Turn 1, allowing his team-mate back onto his tail.

Cassidy then claimed: "At the last corner I grabbed first gear by accident.

"In the first five laps I was not so confident with the track damp - I just didn't do a clean enough job."

But Russell, who finished third with new team Hitech Grand Prix, countered: "I feel sorry for Nick - to have to give his position up to Lance on the first lap of the first race is bad for the championship.

"He was on the back of Lance throughout the race, and it's a bit of a shame if the championship is going to pan out this way.

"Hitech don't have a way of protecting me like Prema do with Lance.

"It's a shame that you can't get anywhere in this sport without paying for it, while normal guys like myself and Ben Barnicoat [Russell's Hitech team-mate] are trying to compete for the championship.

"Nick can talk about all his mistakes, but it's complete and utter rubbish."

Russell did pay tribute to the Prema team, saying that the Italian squad's set-up was superior and that he could not keep pace.

"I'm not taking anything away from Prema - they had a speed advantage over us," he said.

"But we want a fair fight and it's not a fair fight at the moment."

Obviously can't see what exactly went on but it does look a bit suspect

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJMzrPmC7Jo

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 17th August 13:36

[Sam993]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Sam993 said:

fking heck, that was a trip down memory lane, I remember Lee McKenzie visiting him in his music studio on BBC before Valencia GP like it was yesterday... and that must have been 2010/11! He disappeared pretty quickly after that!

Did he not block Red Bull's golden boy Vettel and that was that.

Footage of him arguing back with Marko which would have been fatal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXDI2HNLqoo

Daaamn, that Helmut is a nasty fella, I can't imagine what it feels having ones career depend on someone like this. If he likes someone he'll suck them dry (Vettel, Verstappen) everyone else is disposable at minutes notice. DR might have made a smart move after all.

[anonymous-user]

Sam993 said:

Daaamn, that Helmut is a nasty fella, I can't imagine what it feels having ones career depend on someone like this. If he likes someone he'll suck them dry (Vettel, Verstappen) everyone else is disposable at minutes notice. DR might have made a smart move after all.

Clearly Ricciardo has seen what goes on at Red Bull and just plainly had enough.

It was clear that Max is the new Vettel in the eyes of Red Bull.

And look what Vettel did

[Sam993]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Sam993 said:

Daaamn, that Helmut is a nasty fella, I can't imagine what it feels having ones career depend on someone like this. If he likes someone he'll suck them dry (Vettel, Verstappen) everyone else is disposable at minutes notice. DR might have made a smart move after all.

Clearly Ricciardo has seen what goes on at Red Bull and just plainly had enough.

It was clear that Max is the new Vettel in the eyes of Red Bull.

And look what Vettel did

And I hope that Max (if he doesn't do the Kvyat before then ) does the same in a couple of years, I can't see him saying no to Ferrari or Mercedes.