The Official 2018 French Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**

[Sam993]

Alright, this is going to be my last post in this thread and if mods feel like deleting it or doing whatever they feel right to stop the "injustice" then please go ahead. I'm only posting this because a) I don't like hypocrisy b) I don't like when people think that post count is some kind of measure as to which side is right c) I don't like when someone starts using their sex as a way to defend/win an argument.

Clockwork Cupcake said:

Sam, I'm not going to argue with you. But I really do think you need to take an objective look at your posting style. You may not realise that you are being aggressive and abrasive. Maybe you don't realise that you are very insulting with some of your posts, and when someone replies in a similar way, you really do think they are attacking you rather than merely defending themselves. Maybe you do really genuinely think that you're the innocent / aggrieved party.

I've been in a relationship where I've been gaslighted, and I'm not going to allow you to try that on me. Everyone reading the thread can see (until you edit or delete your posts) that you threw the first insult and that my retort was fairly mild, but if you want to believe otherwise then you can (and will).

I didn't start anything and I didn't even want to want to get into any exchange with you, it was you who started a personal journey towards me and I merely responded to it assertively without using expletives. As can be seen below. I've highlighted the bit in case you needed pointing out.



And to think that it started from a simple, innocent factual statement that was taken out of context and turned into a st storm.

[NRS]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

Indeed. We see this a lot - truly gifted drivers who utterly dominated in lower formulae, who then get a seat in F1 in a backmarker or (if they're lucky) midfield car, don't shine immediately, and are then immediately written off as rubbish.

I think this is the biggest thing about Verstappen - he pretty much jumped straight into an F1 car, with very little experience in lower formulae, and has been immediately competitive (mistakes notwithstanding).

By constrast, LeClerc has very much come up through the ranks and paid his dues, and you can see that in his greater maturity and racecraft compared with Verstappen.

One of the things is there is very few proper stars who can come in and perform straight away. Purely because there isn't that many in general. However one of the other things is often drivers prefer a certain style of car. If the current regs are not to that style then it makes it a lot harder to do well, even if they did well in the lower championships. For example Vettel with the Red Bull. He's clearly better than average in general, but with his race craft slightly behind some of the other top drivers he needed that type of car to get his Championships. I think unless a driver is very lucky that their driving style matches the current cars then only drivers like Hamilton and Alonso can shine early on. This is a result of them being able to drive around problems, and so even if the car is not to their liking they can look good. Max also seems to be this type of driver, but he's generally been too aggressive and so has thrown away a lot of points as a result.

[Clockwork Cupcake]

NRS said:

Max also seems to be this type of driver, but he's generally been too aggressive and so has thrown away a lot of points as a result.

Indeed. I think Verstappen could indeed be the elusive "real deal", but he really needs to up his game on racecraft if he is going to progress.

It's too early to tell on LeClerc but I will certainly be following his progress with interest.

[DeltonaS]

hairyben said:

37chevy said:

Max needs to be careful. While I like his comments, and he was bang on it could come across as a bit childish....and last thing you want to do is attack the media.....they can turn on you in an instant

mrs hairy: he was doing so well until then...

He needs to reign it in, a clean race by dint of having no-one to hit does not a recovered race driver make. Was an odd interview though, he was okay for a bit then something just seemed to trigger him and off he went.

No-one to hit ?

Does Max suddenly have a double to do his starts ?

We're taiking Max here, not Hamilton who's been starting from front row for 4 years now.

He's right do about the negativity he's been getting, He's been pretty much faultless in his first three seasons of F1 after not even a full F3 season (the Renault though far from) and suddenly he has to change.

[geeks]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

Indeed. I think Verstappen could indeed be the elusive "real deal", but he really needs to up his game on racecraft if he is going to progress.

It's too early to tell on LeClerc but I will certainly be following his progress with interest.

Not watched any of his F2 stuff then?

[NRS]

DeltonaS said:

hairyben said:

37chevy said:

Max needs to be careful. While I like his comments, and he was bang on it could come across as a bit childish....and last thing you want to do is attack the media.....they can turn on you in an instant

mrs hairy: he was doing so well until then...

He needs to reign it in, a clean race by dint of having no-one to hit does not a recovered race driver make. Was an odd interview though, he was okay for a bit then something just seemed to trigger him and off he went.

No-one to hit ?

Does Max suddenly have a double to do his starts ?

We're taiking Max here, not Hamilton who's been starting from front row for 4 years now.

He's right do about the negativity he's been getting, He's been pretty much faultless in his first three seasons of F1 after not even a full F3 season (the Renault though far from) and suddenly he has to change.

The same as Hamilton then? You were full of praise for Hamilton I seem to remember....?

[anonymous-user]

bobbo89 said:

There's a few who are getting a bit long in the tooth and others who just need to go:

Alonso
Raikkonen
Hartley
Perez
and maybe even Grosjean fits into one of those two categories!

Give Alonso that Ferrari and things would be very different.

We would have a cracking 2018 Championship.

But Vettel will mess it up again.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 25th June 20:44

[Derek Smith]

Sam993 said:

. . . this is going to be my last post in this thread . . .

Alleluia! There is a god or gods. I've converted to religions.

[bobbo89]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Give Alonso that Ferrari and things would be very different.

We would have a cracking 2018 Championship.

But Vettel will mess it up again.

Edited by ELUSIVEJIM on Monday 25th June 20:44

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Alonso fan and think he's pretty much the best driver out there. Its not that i think he's beyond being in F1 I just think he personally has had enough of it with the McLaren situation sucking away his enthusiasm.

It'd be nice to see him in a front row car but realistically will that now ever happen?

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Where’s the next GP thread anyways? Someone’s slacking



(In all seriousness, I remember a template thread for them ages ago when DrZ was busy with work but can’t find it? It really should be a sticky so it’s not all down to one poster to sort out.)

[Andy S15]

Would it be fair to say that drivers like Hamilton had it easier joining the sport when they did as opposed to someone like Leclerc? Hamilton didn't have the same tyre/fuel/various management issues to contend with in his rookie year, he just had to drive fast, in the best car of the time, which he obviously did well.

I don't feel you can accurately compare Leclerc to that situation, he has a lot more to contend with in an obviously nowhere near as competitive car. I don't think anyone here can deny Leclerc's obvious skills shown in the lower formulae. Interestingly, he also seemed to do much better when testing the Ferrari last year that he has done in the Sauber - maybe because he didn't have to contend with the same 'management' skills in a testing scenario and was obviously in a much more capable car. IMO he'd be the perfect driver at this point to take over the no.2 Ferrari seat. Kimi has been rather underwhelming this year I feel.

[KevinCamaroSS]

Andy S15 said:

Would it be fair to say that drivers like Hamilton had it easier joining the sport when they did as opposed to someone like Leclerc? Hamilton didn't have the same tyre/fuel/various management issues to contend with in his rookie year, he just had to drive fast, in the best car of the time, which he obviously did well.

If you think being teamed with the reigning two times WDC in your rookie year is 'having it easier' I would suggest you think again.

[Derek Smith]

KevinCamaroSS said:

If you think being teamed with the reigning two times WDC in your rookie year is 'having it easier' I would suggest you think again.

A think Hamilton learned a lot from that year. I would agree that much of it was about internal politics, which one might argue not that well, but he became a better driver, and who better to watch than Alonso.

[Andy S15]

KevinCamaroSS said:

If you think being teamed with the reigning two times WDC in your rookie year is 'having it easier' I would suggest you think again.

Absolutely true in that respect. Certainly a baptism of fire in terms of team mate competition, but maybe that's proof of just how talented Hamilton was? I still feel that the jump from GP2>F1 in that era would have been much more straightforward in Ham's time than it is now though.

[Dr Z]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Where’s the next GP thread anyways? Someone’s slacking



(In all seriousness, I remember a template thread for them ages ago when DrZ was busy with work but can’t find it? It really should be a sticky so it’s not all down to one poster to sort out.)

It's coming!

I can probably take it up to the summer break (Hungarian GP), then perhaps other posters can start it off.

[E34-3.2]

Derek Smith said:

A think Hamilton learned a lot from that year. I would agree that much of it was about internal politics, which one might argue not that well, but he became a better driver, and who better to watch than Alonso.

Definitely internal politics. From what I understood Dennis brought Hamilton to ps off Mosley.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Dr Z said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Where’s the next GP thread anyways? Someone’s slacking



(In all seriousness, I remember a template thread for them ages ago when DrZ was busy with work but can’t find it? It really should be a sticky so it’s not all down to one poster to sort out.)

It's coming!

I can probably take it up to the summer break (Hungarian GP), then perhaps other posters can start it off.

Can you remember the template thread? Perhaps bump it up again and we can flag it to a mod to make it a sticky so it’s easier for everyone?

[Derek 111S]

Vettel knows, like the rest of us, that F1 is the new speedway and the first to the corner wins. Ergo, it’s do or die in getting to the corner ahead of anyone else.

[swisstoni]

Derek 111S said:

Vettel knows, like the rest of us, that F1 is the new speedway and the first to the corner wins. Ergo, it’s do or die in getting to the corner ahead of anyone else.

But there's also boring old accumulating as many points as possible.

[Derek Smith]

Derek 111S said:

Vettel knows, like the rest of us, that F1 is the new speedway and the first to the corner wins. Ergo, it’s do or die in getting to the corner ahead of anyone else.

Not sure that's true of Paul Ricard. The faster car might well have the advantage here as much as any circuit.

I think the point with Vettel's error at the first corner is not that it was a do or die manoeuvre - most of us would have had a certain sympathy with him in that case - but that, despite conceding the corner to the two Mercs - he was off the throttle some time before braking - he still managed to lock up and drive into Bottas.

I'd listen to the argument that the boxing-in by the Mercs was not, perhaps, in the spirit of the sport but it was clever and almost successful. In other words, very much like F1.