Discussion
amgmcqueen said:
McLaren have never recovered from lie-gate have they...?
Odd phrase to use when even mosely agreed there were no lies. What hurt McL was Mercedes running their own team. The decision was to not run the risk of being the Merc B team and opt for the very promising Honda engine. After all, they made wonderful engines in the turbo era.
Kraken said:
Fought for the titles a few times after that.
True but I think that we come to view those years as blips (a bit like Williams in 2012 and 2014).My personal view is that the team never recovered from the cost overruns of building the McLaren Technology Centre in the early 2000s.
Edited to add: The MTC cost overrun wasn't the single item that caused problems but it started a sequence of events that lead to the Mercedes deciding to invest elsewhere, to loss of works status, etc.
Edited by ralphrj on Friday 19th October 09:29
ralphrj said:
Kraken said:
Fought for the titles a few times after that.
True but I think that we come to view those years as blips (a bit like Williams in 2012 and 2014).My personal view is that the team never recovered from the cost overruns of building the McLaren Technology Centre in the early 2000s.
Edited to add: The MTC cost overrun wasn't the single item that caused problems but it started a sequence of events that lead to the Mercedes deciding to invest elsewhere, to loss of works status, etc.
Edited by ralphrj on Friday 19th October 09:29
As I understood it, the old McLaren was dotted around almost 30 seperate sites and yes it makes (spreadsheet) sense to bring people under fewer roofs. But if one day you’re going from shed X with your cosy kitchenette, Donna Ewin posters and cubbyholes of kit that engineers love to hoard too......”here’s your building pass, please wear it all times; here’s your canteen tag; here’s your locker for any personal stuff, no stuff left out overnight, you’ll need to complete a building awareness course, of which there’s room on the 3pm tour or tomorrow at 10.15....”
Bigger companies than McLaren have wrestled with the grand corporate HQ move. Boards are often largely in the clouds about it, but whenever I’m involved in such things you wonder if a working dynamic of one sort or another hasn’t just been wrecked in the middle of turning off another set of lights.
Corporate culture is a funny thing. Maybe an easier way to say it is this: imagine if John Elkann suddenly announces Maranello is to close and everything will move to a nice big shiny site with all the mod cons and growth potential. People would think he’s mad!
tigerkoi said:
Largely, I agree with you. But I’d go further. The overrun on costs etc is one thing, but I’d suggest the whole hubristic nature of the thing, the grand design, likely effected a huge shift in corporate culture. Fast cars and the wins still pepper the years post move, but the seeds are sown.
As I understood it, the old McLaren was dotted around almost 30 seperate sites and yes it makes (spreadsheet) sense to bring people under fewer roofs. But if one day you’re going from shed X with your cosy kitchenette, Donna Ewin posters and cubbyholes of kit that engineers love to hoard too......”here’s your building pass, please wear it all times; here’s your canteen tag; here’s your locker for any personal stuff, no stuff left out overnight, you’ll need to complete a building awareness course, of which there’s room on the 3pm tour or tomorrow at 10.15....”
Bigger companies than McLaren have wrestled with the grand corporate HQ move. Boards are often largely in the clouds about it, but whenever I’m involved in such things you wonder if a working dynamic of one sort or another hasn’t just been wrecked in the middle of turning off another set of lights.
Corporate culture is a funny thing. Maybe an easier way to say it is this: imagine if John Elkann suddenly announces Maranello is to close and everything will move to a nice big shiny site with all the mod cons and growth potential. People would think he’s mad!
An excellent post As I understood it, the old McLaren was dotted around almost 30 seperate sites and yes it makes (spreadsheet) sense to bring people under fewer roofs. But if one day you’re going from shed X with your cosy kitchenette, Donna Ewin posters and cubbyholes of kit that engineers love to hoard too......”here’s your building pass, please wear it all times; here’s your canteen tag; here’s your locker for any personal stuff, no stuff left out overnight, you’ll need to complete a building awareness course, of which there’s room on the 3pm tour or tomorrow at 10.15....”
Bigger companies than McLaren have wrestled with the grand corporate HQ move. Boards are often largely in the clouds about it, but whenever I’m involved in such things you wonder if a working dynamic of one sort or another hasn’t just been wrecked in the middle of turning off another set of lights.
Corporate culture is a funny thing. Maybe an easier way to say it is this: imagine if John Elkann suddenly announces Maranello is to close and everything will move to a nice big shiny site with all the mod cons and growth potential. People would think he’s mad!
Vaud said:
FourWheelDrift said:
You mean like a certain 7Up Jordan driver, a CS gas canister, a taxi driver and a touch of road rage?
It was at the back of my mind. But it would be amplified in the modern social media / youtube world.markcoznottz said:
Not likely to happen with a pair of corporate robots surely? That was a strange incident for F1, the young drivers now are boring, don't drink etc. Still doesn't fully explain why no soft drinks have ever jumped in properly. Maybe because they are predominantly USA based?
I was thinking more about Vettel at Baku - or the odd Kimi comment as a brand risk.Knowing the soft drink and FMC's in this world re sponsorship, this will be an American deal, via a distributor as companies like Coca Cola don't usually have global budgets. They also usually don't bottle or distribute their products across markets its all about trade marks and PR. The deal is probably all about hospitality and is probably well under 1 million dollars. Don't get excited about McLaren and sponsorship, they are struggling.
rev-erend said:
tight fart said:
I know a guy who works at Mclaren F1, I saw him briefly just now and asked him about the race today.
He didn't even know where it was!!
If the staff have no interest?
Those freddo bars only buy so much loyalty with the staff.He didn't even know where it was!!
If the staff have no interest?
When I was there many moons ago, we had so much stress on what we were doing, the only time we even thought about the race was when Ron turned up in the staff restaurant on a Monday to explain what happened over the weekend
tight fart said:
I know a guy who works at Mclaren F1, I saw him briefly just now and asked him about the race today.
He didn't even know where it was!!
If the staff have no interest?
For many people, a job is just a job - you don't have to love / follow F1 to work there. Is this guy an F1 fan?He didn't even know where it was!!
If the staff have no interest?
tigerkoi said:
Bigger companies than McLaren have wrestled with the grand corporate HQ move. Boards are often largely in the clouds about it, but whenever I’m involved in such things you wonder if a working dynamic of one sort or another hasn’t just been wrecked in the middle of turning off another set of lights.
This has just been announced in the rather large company I work for (~4500 staff), and it's created an absolute s
tstorm amongst the affected staff (and those directly un-affected). Morale at an all-time low, highly skilled and long time served staff will leave and seek employment elsewhere. Why commute into London Bridge and then go back out again to get to the newly sited office, when you can stay on the train and get a significantly higher paid job in the centre of London. Madness!Why have cash strapped force india managed to be a bit good with limited resources?
The tiny factory helps. Every department in each others face and doubling up on duties.
You get the impression with mclaren that people would barely aknowledge each other if stood at the coffee machine. Everyone convinced they are doing something more important that anyone else.
Curse of these large corporate hq's where you really are not meant to chat to anyone.
The other big teams seem to manage so maybe they cracked it somehow.
The tiny factory helps. Every department in each others face and doubling up on duties.
You get the impression with mclaren that people would barely aknowledge each other if stood at the coffee machine. Everyone convinced they are doing something more important that anyone else.
Curse of these large corporate hq's where you really are not meant to chat to anyone.
The other big teams seem to manage so maybe they cracked it somehow.
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